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Why don't Irish people befriend foreigners?

24

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,713 ✭✭✭✭bodhrandude


    There's your answer ardatr take the whistle and start going to trad sessions, sit in listen to the tunes, practise them at home then join in at the pub sessions, that's one way to meet people anyway.

    If you want to get into it, you got to get out of it. (Hawkwind 1982)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    The OP has been impeccably polite and respectful, the negative replies are completely uncalled for


    We are clannish, let's not be so precious about it being identified



  • Registered Users Posts: 990 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    It's a consequence of being a small country with a small village mindset - it wasn't that long ago that Irish people viewed people from the village nearby suspiciously, never mind people from overseas. Hopefully its getting better though with the younger generation.

    Also there is an attitude of "Well they are going to go back to their home country in a couple years, why would i invest in them from a friendship point of view". So i think if you want to make Irish firends, make it clear you have moved here permanently. Say it out loud.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭boardsie12


    it's a very good question, I met a few Brazilians recently and we hung out a good few times. They'd been living in Ireland for a good few years.

    They always said that the one regret that they had was not meeting and becoming friends with Irish people. They claimed that we were very distant, reserved, and difficult to get to know!

    Maybe a majority of Irish people prefer to stay in their own group and just focus on the friends that they made in school and growing up.

    I also always wondered, it seems like there should be more integration and more of a willingness to get to know other people's cultures and traditions!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 664 ✭✭✭Sonic the Shaghog


    Main thing for me is even if someone has perfect English if they aren't Irish it's hard to bond as a lot of the little things like in jokes etc aren't the same and at times it gets draining explaining things.

    Outside of Ireland I'd say English, Scottish, Welsh and Aussie tend to be the easiest to form friendships with from what I've seen and experienced. Even a lot of Americans who even when lovely have trouble getting a lot

    As you can see from the above I'd say the close links between Ireland, Britain and Australia is what gives more in common. In saying that it can even depend on where someone is from even in those countries. E.g. cockneys, magpies seem to be the best craic from who've I met



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,719 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    The key is to find out the Zodiac sign of people, and only try to make friends with those who are compatible. If you google you will see lots of information about signs which are unlikely to make good friends. This is the same in all countries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 641 ✭✭✭BaywatchHQ


    From what I've seen they do, my father is a fisherman and sells fish to them and he even used to visit a man from the Philippines. My uncle also befriended his Lithuanian secretary and had an affair with her.

    In my case though being non NT they have bullied me relentlessly in the workplace (even the women) so I have no time for them and I made sure to vote for Brexit. Imagine being so arrogant that you would come to another country and bully a local.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 17,997 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    There's also a lot of casual xenophobia amongst some Irish people. They assume "foreigners" are different and are suspicious of them.

    I'm sure most people know at least one person who insists on referring to someone as Polish regardless of whether they're from Lithuania, Czech Republic or Moldova.

    I have heard anecdotally that we are superficially friendly but hard to get to know.

    A lot of good reasons have been given here and it's likely a combination of these depending on the individual.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,787 ✭✭✭jackboy


    We like to have the craic but in general are uncomfortable with deep or meaningful conversations when sober. I have heard a foreigner describe the Irish personality as soft and friendly on the outside but deep down the true personality is hard and vindictive.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Konnor Puny Semiconductor


    I'm Irish, I have a very good friend for 15 years now from Romania.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    I don't think that's a fair assessment to be honest. As others have mentioned, it's simply a combination of being busy, have existing relationships, and the result of the fast-paced society in which we live today. Most people can scarcely maintain existing friendships, without extending themselves to get acquainted with people passing through Ireland for a few years.

    Having said that, I have a foreign colleague who really wants to settle here but has had a torrid time trying to make Irish friends. I do like him, but I'm married with young kids, have a large extended family, plus a few close friends, and just do not have time to realistically become friends with him. I suspect many Irish people are the same.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 17,997 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    I did say some, not all and acknowledged that all the reasons given here are valid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭FFVII




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭FFVII





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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭FFVII


    As mentioned, meet outside of work or theirs no hope.

    People you work with aint your friend.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,655 ✭✭✭victor8600


    As was said by others in the thread, it's much more difficult to find friends as an adult, and this is not unique to Ireland. My best friends are from my primary school years. I am here 20+ years, but most friends that I met in Ireland are from my first few years doing a degree in UCC. With work and family commitments one would naturally have less time to mingle and make friends and that is normal.



  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Rashad Gray Needlework




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's because, generally, they are different. Tends to happen when people are brought up under a different culture, and range of values. I wouldn't consider that to be any kind of xenophobia, and is pretty standard wherever you are in the world, with the exception of particularly diverse concentrated areas in larger cities.

    Most of my friends would be foreign.. although that's mostly because I've spent so long abroad, and haven't had much in the way of opportunities to meet other Irish people since I returned. However, TBH, I've never been one to have more than a few friends, and the remainder being more the case of casual acquaintances.


    We are clannish, let's not be so precious about it being identified

    But so too are most other nationalities whether they're abroad or in the own countries. Oh, sure, people are friendly in various social settings, but usually there's a reserve that needs to be broken through before there's any real chance at a genuine friendship, and most just drift apart to being social media contacts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    We were a very rural people until relatively recently, keeping land in the family was important so you only married stock you knew so you didn't have any desire to mingle with those who's grandparents you couldn't name



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    I don't like anyone. That's my reason.

    I'm 46 years old. I've already made all the friends that I'm going to make.

    One is English, if that counts.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Err.. times have changed.. a long time since. My mother is from Carlow, and my father from near Carraroe. Sure, many people do marry locally, but what you describe has been on the way out for a rather long time. TBH, there's a lot of stereotyping and possibly 'romantic' nonsense involved too.

    It bears remembering that a decent chunk of Irish people by the 30s/40s didn't have any land, because it had already been distributed within the family before them. My grandfather got his land from working for a elderly distant cousin, until he kicked the bucket, and that put him in a position to get married.. in his late 40s. Which was a reasonable age in those days, because most men didn't have land themselves, and had to work for it....



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 17,997 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    Yes, there are obviously cultural differences. Perhaps it would have been better to say that a minority feel superior to non-Irish nationals. I've no doubt you'll find similar the world over.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Oddly enough, I've always felt that Irish people (at least, around my generation) had something of an inferiority complex when it came to people from other countries. Haven't seen this superiority you refer to. Guess I need to get out more. Is this a Dublin thing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,103 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    The long term friends I’ve made were either growing up and from my immediate area or from college…. so Irish, with the exception of one English guy from my job we were good pals but he’s back in London about 5 years..

    i don’t befriend foreigners because I don’t meet any with the exception of some of my girlfriends friends.

    in a job I was in, the employee demographic was diverse and everyone got along…. French, Brazilian, English, Polish, Czech, Spanish, Italians.. a good relationship between line staff but…

    if a social night out was being organised…where we were all on our own dime….about a ten percent turnout…. From the above…loads of Irish didn’t bother too…mind you.

    But in the days that the Xmas party was paid for by the job and the Awards night out too, everyone Is there…

    effort needs to be forthcoming from both sides… wasn't always.



  • Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭PalLimerick


    OP you will get lots of theories here on why Irish People don't befriend foreigners some bordering on excuses. Been honest some just don't want to. They have no interest. That's the simple harsh truth. I come in to contact with People from other Countries very very regular. I chat to them, think they're decent people, by the jobs they do they add to Irish society in a positive way. But the cold truth I have no interest in been personal close friends with them. Our cultures don't go together to be that close in my opinion.

    Then you have cases like Aisling Murphy and the two men in Sligo and rightly or wrongly that makes People warey.



  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I have a few foreign friends but a lot have moved back to their home countries and it is a bit disappointing to invest a lot of time in getting to know people who don't stay around for more than a couple of years. I'll be friendly now but a bit less eager to become good friends with someone who I don't think will be living in Ireland in 2 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭rock22


    I am Irish and I moved about 150 miles within Ireland over 40 years ago. I live in a rural area. i have acquired a few acquaintances but no friends in all that time. Irish people are very clannish and distrustful of foreigners and 'blow-ins' unfortunately.

    My neighbours have never invited me into their homes, although a few have visited me in mine. I would say to stay in Dublin as there is a better social mix there and better opportunities to meet people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    It’s not a Dublin thing. That poster is trying to insinuate something sinister, that does not exist. He couches it under terms like ‘a minority’ or ‘I didn’t say all Irish’, but his motives are very transparent.

    I lived abroad for 10 years myself. It’s hard to make friends as an adult everywhere. This is not unique to Ireland and is entirely unconnected to a superiority complex.

    OP, you’re unlikely to make close friends at work unless you unexpectedly land in a very social environment. Your best bet is sports or hobbies groups. However, be aware that many people will be there to train or do the activity and aren’t necessarily looking for friends.

    It’s not always easy, but that’s one of the downsides of migrating as an adult. In my view, the only true way of integrating deeply into another culture as an adult, is if you marry a local.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    I'll befriend anyone who wants to befriend me. I have loads of "foreigner" friends.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 187 ✭✭gladvimpaker


    One of my best friends is from Tenarife, my other close friend is from England and half Polish and half Indian. His father was from Poland and mother from India.

    I've good friends both Irish and non Irish , don't feel left out, maybe join a group like hiking or if you have a hobby find like minded people or clubs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,214 ✭✭✭wylo


    Lots of reasons OP, I’d say the main one which has been pointed out here already which is adults tend not to naturally become good friends with each other unless they spend a huge amount of time together, Ive a feeling that is worldwide. I would be surprised this day in age that this happens with people in their college years, but if it it does, its likely because Irish people are more focused on socialising in the pub/club at that age and foreigners arent as into getting wasted. Irish people also probably assume (unfairly) that the foreigner has their own life going on with their own friends.

    The whole thing doesnt happen out of any badness, I think saying we're clannish etc is simplifying things and also being hard on Irish culture.We are probably shyer than we care to admit.

    Again though, I would say the primary reason is that adults after college years are really not that good at making friends with each other.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭Amadan Dubh


    I agree with this. So many Irish people spend the vast majority of their socialising with school friends and this group is practically impenetrable for an outsider. I'd be curious whether many foreigners or even spouses/partners have even penetrated into school friends' groups which also touches on another problem with Irish people; often men only socialise with men and women only with women. Couples socialising doesn't seem to be that common.

    One point on the OP being from Turkey which I haven't seen mentioned yet is to do with the possibility the OP does not drink alcohol. Irish people tend to get bamboozled when met with the prospect of socialising with a new person who doesn't drink.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,313 ✭✭✭thefallingman


    is there such a thing as close friends at 27, an acquaintance perhaps but that's it. Close friends are a thing for the very young



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,691 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    It used be a thing in the past where, by and large mature men, used call in on each others houses to tell yarns and play cards, a sort of non pub, pre mens shed thing. Of course if you did this nowadays you'd be asked what brought you.

    Back on topic, have heaps of non irish friends through leisure activity, I do find a lot of them stick around for only a short time and move on, usually back home. I don't see that as an excuse for not making friends with them in the first place. A small number have set down roots with a house but then there's kids and the socialising tends to cease just the same as the Irish.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    It is normal enough though. You make good friends through shared experiences and doing things together. As an adult there is none of the experiences that build deep friendships such as playing sports together with the highs and lows, nights spent on the chase, holidays together where you get into all sorts of blurry trouble. I knew the guys I hung around with in my teens and 20s (although I have lost contact with all of them for one reason are another) better than I know anyone else in the world as what we had was completely unfiltered warts and all. We went through all sorts of stuff together including a death of one of them. I know I could tell them anything and not be judged too harshly for it.

    You do not get that with an adult relationship as you won't have these shared experiences and opening yourself up too much creates a potential power imbalance whereby you may overshare and be judged. You can never have that deep bond that you create in your younger years as your life is more safe and comfortable and not lived so much on the edge.

    Most of the 'friends' I have now are just accidental in that they are parents of other kids who my kids happen to hang around with. They come and go. They are fine while they are there but once gone I couldn't say I really miss them yet I do miss the guys I hung out with at school.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    I don't think the OP being foreign has anything to do with his struggle, if he was from Cork and living in Tipperary, he'd have the same problem



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    We are extremely clannish, there is no over simplification and we aren't shy ,shy cultures aren't comfortable talking skin deep shallow sh1te like comes natural to us



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx




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  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 17,997 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    No, not a Dublin thing. I'm not a Dub but I've seen this attitude from some people. Maybe it is inferiority masked as superiority though?



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 17,997 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    There's no motive or sinister insinuations at all on my part. It's just something I've noticed over the years. I'm not a man either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 187 ✭✭gladvimpaker


    Maybe calling people lifelong friends is better.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,313 ✭✭✭thefallingman




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    My own experience from both sides ( moving to a new country and being here with some non-nationals)

    Coming into a new country, first thing I did was find a few people from " back home" as we spoken the same, looked the same, acted the same and in some cases knew the same people. It made me living away a bit easier, and then to be fair being white Irish we were not exactly welcomed with open arms by the locals.


    My experience here, I did try to hang out with a Latvian guy I worked with, really sound and he and I are still good friends, but when he brought me to a group of his home friends, they didn't make an effort to speak English despite him telling them to, didn't speak much about anything in Ireland.


    I suppose it could have been me also, but looking at what makes a friend a friend, it is usually shared experiences over time, so hard to get when you just arrive and have no real common interests.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    Spend some time living abroad; it's the same everywhere. If you think that people who slight you or don't want to be your friend, have a superiority complex, you're setting yourself up for a horrid experience.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Mad there's still talk about this, when the answer was given early on in the thread.

    In general it's difficult in Ireland - especially as a man - to make new friends once you've left college. People have their friend groups from school and college and tend to stick with them. Work colleagues are work colleagues, you see them in work and for after-work parties, but you don't text them randomly on a Saturday to go out for beers.

    Any new friends tend to be made through existing friends rather than out of entirely new groups.

    And since most people over 30 have few "foreign" friends from school or college, this makes it appear like they're inaccessible to foreigners. When the reality is that they're just as inaccessible to other Irish people too.

    Even when you get to the point of having kids, it's rare to get past the "our kids are friends, and we'll talk superficially but that's about it" level.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 17,997 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    I'm Irish and posted about what I've observed about some people's attitudes towards "foreigners". I did say it in a later post that it was likely to be observed the world over.

    I'm not sure why you've taken such an issue, do you genuinely believe that all Irish people welcome immigrants, and that none have negative preconceptions of them?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Birds of a feather, flock together.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,718 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    OP, I don't think it is that unusual. When you go away it is easier to make friends with other people who are foreign to that place than locals because the foreigners are also looking to make friends whereas the locals might be already in a social circle. I lived abroad for years and the friends I made there were neither Irish nor "natives". They were other "foreigners" to that place

    You will find Irish people but it will just take a bit more time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,718 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    The OP could offer to take both of them. I'm sure both your friends would be delighted. They'd still have you over for birthdays and celebrations etc.


    I suppose they'd have to keep contact with you anyways even if they befriended the OP, what with you being their only child and all



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