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UK will finally off shore illegal asylum seekers crossing the channel

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,763 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    It's going to be very popular among the working class.


    Not as much in the leafy suburbs.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,232 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Genius idea with one little flaw…. You can’t send them back if you can’t prove where they came from in the first place! Countries are not in the habit of accepting random individuals into their country just because the UK tells them they think the person came from there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    Do you have a source for those costs?

    Seem astronomical per person



  • Registered Users Posts: 187 ✭✭gladvimpaker


    Ireland will probably come to the rescue like we always do. We're probably one of the least populated countries in the EU for our size anyway.

    By 2030 the conspiracy theorists are spouting supposedly we need to add a few million more to the diaspora. As part of some plan by people who think they know what's best for us.

    At last we'll have a mixed population and we'll be like any other modern European country in the western world. Anyone who protest's against this will be cancelled and rightly so.

    Rural Village's will probably still be the same and be know as native reservations. Town's and cities will be buzzing with culture and Ireland will no longer be what it was, but we'll be a the pride of Europe.

    Céad míle fáilte



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Multipass


    They can avoid going to Rwanda by claiming asylum in France. Or they can use the thousands of euros they’ve brought for the channel crossing to fly elsewhere. The UK is crowded, and every space for asylum should be reserved for genuine people who apply legally.



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  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The diaspora are Irish people who have spread across the world, away from their homeland.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    On a final note, people are not "illegal". Calling people "illegals" is a trick used by the gutter press to rile the hard of thinking against "foreigners" instead of blaming the nations woes on the Republicans or Tories

    Do you see posters saying illegal people? They say illegal migrants, because their status is illegal. And there can, indeed, be illegal migrants due to their lacking the legal permission by the State of <insert country> to reside, work, and gain the benefits of being there. (whereas changing illegal to undocumented is a trick designed to change the perspective of people)

    In any case, context sets the theme. If you want to ignore context, then anything can be deemed offensive. The context here would be immigration, so saying illegal people should be easily interpreted as being related to the lack of that visa.

    Look at the state of the UK now and see what their Brexit xenophobia brought

    Ahh yes, because everything happens in a sterile field, where nothing important happened before implementation. The sources for the troubles of the UK are wide and varied... it's rather convenient to blame it all on xenophobia. Also removes a fair chunk of the population from criticism or responsibility. It's a lot like blaming all the UK problems on immigrants.... It doesn't really work, and avoids the core issues involved.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,391 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Source.

    Yes, it is astronomical per person.

    But think about it - if you set out intentionally to design a massively expensive, massively inefficient system for dealing with asylum-seekers, offshoring is pretty much the solution you would come up with. Proponents of such solutions will sometimes tell you they are concerned with value-for-money or with minimising the taxpayers' burden but they are, of course, lying. If they were concerned about such matters they would not advocate offshoring.



  • Registered Users Posts: 187 ✭✭gladvimpaker


    I know read my post again. It's probably hard to read between the lines. Actually thinking about it, there's no Irish diaspora tourism attraction in Ireland.

    It would be a nice touch for visiting people with an Irish background.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,391 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    The great bulk of those who cross the channel in boats are "genuine people who apply legally". The UK proposes to send them to Rwanda and dismiss their applications unexamined just the same.

    If you're looking for a scheme which deals fairly and decently with genuine people who apply legally, then this scheme is the exact opposite of that. If you support this scheme then you have either misunderstood it, or your pretended concern for genuine people who apply legally is hypocritical.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I do agree with you. In part. It is a ridiculous expenditure of money for very few returns. However, what's the realistic alternative? I've looked at a variety of websites/articles talking about 'fixing' all this, but they're all concerned with giving everything to refugees, and no consideration is made for cost, or their impact on Australia (neither the economy nor society). Instead, there's a blank wall where the downsides are left, and rather the focus is entirely on what should be provided.

    This is a rather good read:

    As for the UK, and their offshore efforts, it is possible that they manage it better. Unlikely, I know, but still possible.

    As for supporting either scheme, I don't. However, I'm aware that something needs to be done. Simply handing the keys to the house to endless numbers of migrant groups isn't the answer either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭Nermal


    The goal is not to process applicants cheaply or 'fairly', it's to discourage them altogether.

    A high cost per person processed is a sign that it's working as intended, because the fixed costs of the scheme are spread over so few people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭sonar44


    If you have questions pertaining to the topic, I'll oblige. If you have off topic questions that belong in the gardening or mind reading forums, I'll pass.

    It's just a discussion. Something more important is bound to come along.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭sonar44



    Why lies? Could I not just be misinformed? wrong? Could you not have misinterpreted my post?


    Please tone down the aggression if you wish to engage with me.

    It's just a discussion. Something more important is bound to come along.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You return them to their point of origin. That poi will have records for how they got into their country, in order to travel to the UK. At some stage in the journey, the people in question will have registered themselves, somehow. Once returned to the POI, it is the responsibility of that person, to go elsewhere, the same as any other traveller. Very few countries are easy to travel through without having acceptable forms of identification, and those forms will be recorded at multiple stages. This will relate to the vast majority of travellers to the UK.. and TBH with a bit of legwork and negotiation it wouldn't be hard to build a database of all foreign entries into Europe, accessible by all EU member states. That would make any travel without any documentation extremely difficult, and easy to track/identify any foreigner in Europe.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Did I see it said somewhere that this is for single men?



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,391 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    You could be misinformed by people who are lying to you, Sonar. I didn't say that you were lying; far more likely that you have credulously accepted lies told to you by others. You should maybe ask yourself why they are telling you these lies, and perhaps also ask yourself why you believed them.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,232 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    The reality is that no country will allow you land a person without documentation, if they did the UK would not need this solution.

    And the EU/EEA/CH does have rules on how to handle this situation plus a database accessible to every member of Schengen. And every third party national entering has their passport scanned, every visa rejection or revocation is recorder as are most convictions. You can be banned from entering the Schengen area, you can be restricted to visa only entry, you can be fined, deported at your expense and carriers are fined for attempting to land anyone who is rejected. On top of this under the law you are assumed guilty until you prove yourself innocent - you must prove that you have complied with the law, not the other way around. However the UK decided they did not want to participate.

    Although Ireland is not a member of Schengen it has full access to the Schengen Information System. So if for instance an American tourist was caught working in Austria, the next time he tries to come to Europe, every state including Ireland would know that this is a person who has little respect for our laws.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,391 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Yes, you have seen that said, but it's not true. The Memorandum of Understanding sets out a scheme that applies to all persons "seeking to be recognised as a refugee in accordance with the Refugee Convention or otherwise claiming protection on humanitarian or human rights grounds" - male or female, married or single, adult or child.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,391 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Well, if your only goal is to discourage people from coming to seek asylum, you could do that just as effectively, or perhaps even more effectively, by, say, machine-gunning boatloads of asylum seekers (as some have in fact suggested).

    But if that is your only goal (this is the generic "you", not you, Nermal, you understand) then I think my point is made; a pretended concern for "genuine people who apply legally" would indeed be hypocritical, if all you want to do is stop them applying.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,232 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    The goal is purely political call, satisfy the voters for the next election nothing more. If the UK was actually serious about solving the problem they’d be participating in the European schemes that reduced their problems before BREXIT. This is a problem of their own making and Rwanda will prove to be an embarrassment if it every actually happens and will eventually have to be closed down.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭sonar44



    What you actually said was:


    Lies from beginning to end, I'm afraid, sonar. I don't know where you're getting this stuff from, but wherever it is you should stop treating it so credulously. They are making you look very gullible, which is probably the look you are reaching for.


    Setting aside the personal attacks (for now), I don't claim to have access to a divine source of knowledge on this (or any other) topic. Feel free to correct me if you feel I am wrong with your sources and proof that they are infallible.

    It's just a discussion. Something more important is bound to come along.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    How could you be misinformed? Surely you verified your information before posting?

    Did they misinterprete your post?



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,391 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    If you give me the sources for the claim you made and I responded to, I will give you the sources for responses. Fair?



  • Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭Mr Bumble


    You're hilarious You can't answer the question without admitting you're a racist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭Mr Bumble


    You admitted you're racist.

    "I realise people want to shout that it's racism, and it is racist.. but who really cares anymore?"

    "We're all a little jaded over being called racist for everything under the sun, that the term doesn't have much umpf anymore."

    That's enough for me thanks.

    Now where's that soap?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I didn't say that I was a racist. I'm getting the rather strong feeling that you don't deal well with nuance or any kind of subtlety in what's written.

    Really do love how you misinterpret the quoted pieces repeatedly to match your need to call others racist.

    And again, not one counter of what was stated.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭sonar44



    People that make multifaceted, complex issues all about race are perhaps, unnecessarily consumed by race.


    There's a word for them alright and you seem quite familiar with it.

    It's just a discussion. Something more important is bound to come along.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,433 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Try booking a ticket to anywhere, and the booking agent / airline will have all your details, so when they present at passport control without any documents, they would know what airline they flew with? A phone call to that airline desk would give a complete list of the passengers. Or are the AS not obliged to know that either? Hard to travel anywhere now without leaving either a paper or electronic trail.



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