Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Why don't Irish people befriend foreigners?

13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 506 ✭✭✭gluppers


    From my experience Irish men are better at befriending foreigners compared to Irish women



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    Are you always this waspish when somebody challenges your opinion?



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 17,997 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    I'm not waspish, I'm just genuinely surprised you haven't seen this attitude towards non-Irish nationals at all.

    ETA: Well, I can only presume you haven't as you didn't answer the question.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,719 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    I have never once heard a friend, acquaintance, or colleague either in Ireland or in a decade living abroad, state that they refuse to be friends with foreigners because they see them as lesser. Indifference or disinterest, absolutely. Sense of superiority as a motivating factor, never.

    If this is something you've experienced, you may need to reconsider the circles in which you mix.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 17,997 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    I've seen this in shops and garages, you can see how some people treat non-Irish nationals differently compared to Irish staff.

    Nothing to do with my social circle and "having a sinister ulterior motive".

    I doubt I'm the only one to have observed this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,313 ✭✭✭thefallingman


    Yes i'd agree with you leg end they are treated differently, call it covert racism or just ignorance but it happens for sure, same as it happened me in Australia with the paddy and mick nicknames ect. I also agreed with the post above stating it could get worse with some of our imported friends murdering people, i know plenty of women that will only get in a taxi for example with the traditional looking irish taxi driver



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    Did you report this egregious and discriminatory behavior that you witnessed?



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 17,997 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 24 ardatr


    Hello everyone again!

    First of all, thanks for your all suggestions. I try to be more interested in Irish culture. I'm looking for an acapella choir I can sing. Also let me give a little information: Turkey is a secular country and we can freely drink alcohol in Turkey. :) Altough we look like a Middle Eastern country from the outside, we are quite advanced compared to many European countries. There are European countries with which we have very close ties in history, especially Germany. Our harmonization process with Europe still continues in many areas. We only have a minor problem of government party, who dare mix religion with state affairs. But it won't take long, Turkish people understood the value of the Republic and secularism better than it had ever before in its history. But anyway, that's another matter !

    I really enjoy being in Ireland. I guess what I need is to be in a choir. I was conducting a polyphonic choir in Turkey. I am also very interested in literature. I have two published books. Maybe if I improve my English a little more, I can even find a writer's club! I'm sure I can belong somewhere. And I will meet wonderful people.

    Thanks for all your help.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    OP, you sound like a nice person. I'm sure you'll find your tribe eventually. It just takes time in a new country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,718 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,032 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    I have seen that, but the people doing this are the low intelligence people. The likes of people who have never lived outside the country in their life, and can't comprend people to expand their horizons .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,976 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    People are busy with their own lives they don't need to make a new social circle. People in a location where they don't know many people will stick together and form a new social group as you have done. An Irish person moving to another country will do the same thing.

    Go to any country in the world and you will find this. It's not an Irish thing. It's just human nature.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,103 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Cultural differences is part of it.. nothing in common in lots of cases…



  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Don't think it has anything to do with Ireland. It's the same everywhere. It even happens in expat communities where long-termers only befriend other long-termers.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah, but that's because it gets tiresome making new friends only to have them leave after a year or two. You quickly come to realise that few people stay in a foreign place for extended periods with most leaving to try somewhere else, or go home. It's annoying to sift through the nutjobs, and scammers to find decent friends, only for them to leave while you remain in that foreign place.

    Making friends with foreigners is different. Culture plays a strong role, as does language. Even when the foreigner speaks your language or you theirs, there is often a comprehension gap which makes relaxed friendship based on trust, more than a little difficult. However, culture is the defining point. Peoples personal values are generally defined by the culture they grew up in. The social conditioning we received tends to shape us and our perspectives, and that generates friction with others.

    I have one American friend, because I find most Americans to have a superiority complex, and generally arrogant without cause for it. It tends to bug me. Even the American friend I have is annoying sometimes, and I have to rein back my desire to set him straight on a wide variety of issues or beliefs. However, he's a good guy. Most of the time.

    We make allowances for those we choose to become friends with, but after a while, we realise kinda quickly that more allowances need to be extended to foreign groups. Still... I think it comes down to your own personality, and what you're willing to put up with. Most of my friends are foreign, with very few being Irish. Different priorities.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,976 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The difference is if you were in another country everyone including the Irish you know would be all foreigners.

    It's just the nature of traveling somewhere else. Once you're traveling or working in another country your attitude to everything else is different.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    We do.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Im sure most people know at least one person who insists on referring to someone as Polish regardless of whether they're from Lithuania, Czech Republic or Moldova.

    Just on this point - I find it a difficult one because it can be considered rude to ask someone where they are from..

    I used to go to a lady who did my nails (pre-covid) and I knew by her accent she was from Eastern Europe, but didn't feel like I should ask here where she was from exactly. It came up in conversation later on that she was from Hungary, but I can't yet distinguish a Polish, Lituanian, Moldovan, or Hungarian accent in the same way I can a French, German or Italian one, and I would be wary of causing offence by asking someone where is "home" or "where are you from" if they reply "here"! I've seen that happen...



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't think it is. I lived 14 years abroad, and my attitude "to everything" was the same as it was when I was in Ireland. It was just the environment that was different.

    As for the rest, my post was in response to another point that poster made.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,103 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    people do make the effort. Sometimes they are reciprocal, other times not…works both ways…great.. if not.. bye



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,976 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    You are arguing that everything else has changed except you. How likely is that.

    Besides you don't need to rely on subjective opinion here. The Irish diaspora are all over the world and the immigration numbers speak for themselves.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,103 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    The Irish tend to integrate very well into society.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I honesty have no idea what point you're trying to make or what it is you're trying to argue.

    Your first post quoting mine went off-board, and this second one doesn't seem even related to what I wrote.





  • I'd agree with this. My partner is Brazilian and the "foreigners" comments really trigger me. One family member even said to me would you not get a "nice Irish girl". I have grown up in Dublin and worked in diverse environments across the globe and being in these environments is completely normal to me.

    The general "foreigners" comment crops up every few months and I am tuned to it. I was playing poker at the Irish Open in Citywest only last week and a fella sat beside me from the north west and said with some disdain "there's a lot of foreigners here". So what ffs it's an international poker tournament.

    In my case, I do think it's more a rural Ireland thing and tend to shrug it off. My family are from from extremely rural places.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,540 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Why do you feel the need to embarrass yourself with a stupid comment???



  • Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭Whatdoesitmatter




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,976 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    If you don't think immigration and dispora are related to this thread, nothing else I say will explain it. Have a great weekend.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,976 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I think people forget this is after hours.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,976 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    Again not unique to Ireland. They say the same about people from different counties never mind countries...

    She's from Dublin ...




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,976 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Not knowing where someone is from is not xenophobia that's just bring uneducated and likely not interested. Many people can't tell Irish from Northern Irish or even English. I've been asked if I'm Canadian or even from LA.

    I've stopped asking because some people take offence if asked.



  • Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭Ceramic


    OP, I think you're misinterpreting a very significantly large cultural difference as unfriendliness. It's not. It's just different.

    Irish culture is quite different to a lot of southern European / middle Eastern and Mediterranean cultures. Socialising does not tend to involve sharing food or bringing people home for meals. There's nothing seen as particularly inhospitable about not doing so, and there are historically very long ingrained reasons for the differences i.e. food/eating here was mostly quite a utilitarian function in the past - most of the population did not eat fancy meals and houses were pretty basic and often very full and busy and in general the idea of bringing people around for dinner was just not a thing, other than maybe amongst the old upper classes.

    Irish social culture revolves around public spaces, and mostly the pub, which isn't called a 'public house' for nothing. That's the space that was the living room and the place where people socialised.

    If you're not into drinking, and not everyone is, I would strongly suggest that you maybe get involved with group activities that don't involve meeting people at home i.e. join maybe some Meetup groups, get to know people in community groups - there are loads of them from sports, arts, culture, community, Tidy Towns, local committees on all sorts of random topics and they are all generally very open to people dropping in. Just do not expect socialising to revolve around calling into people's homes for meals, and also do not take offence or see it as cold if they do not invite you because it's just not a thing here. It's not that you'll never ever call into other people's houses, but just the contexts are quite different and it's usually more like people you know extremely well and it's often very casual for a cup of tea type of thing, rather than a meal.

    Also there are some odd cultural things in Ireland to be ware of (they apply to a degree in parts of England and France too I found). For example, if you offer someone food / drink they'll quite likely refuse it at first, but then be insulted if you don't offer it again. There's a whole 'dance of politenesses' goes on which doesn't necessarily exist in the USA for example, definitely doesn't exist in Germany etc.

    Ireland's also extremely casual and informal. So, if you're used to people making a big fuss about greeting you it can seem cold when you just get 'how's it going?' 'grand! yourself?'. Physical greetings like handshaking / kissing are generally not a thing and greetings are often pretty subtle. Again, that does not mean people are being unfriendly or cold, it's just not France, Spain, Turkey etc and the culture around those things are different. On the other side of it, you also might get excitedly bear hugged.

    The other issue is you're in a new place and they're at home. So it takes a lot more effort to break into break into very long established social circles, especially in smaller communities where people may know each other since childhood. That's a universal thing. I've lived in several countries and it's not easy to just rock up and meet people.

    I know for example when I lived in France, the culture is quite different and I would have had the opposite sense i.e. there was nowhere to meet people. They didn't go to the pub, cafe etc unless very much by appointment, but you learn there are other contexts - clubs, events, markets, organised walking groups all sorts of things and you start to just build from there.

    I also lived in Brussels which is an extremely transient and international city and when I was there you'd often get to know someone for a few weeks or months and then they'd be gone. So the result was locals didn't bother with internationals who weren't long term residents as the effort wasn't worth it. So, there's a parallel community of people who are just there for work for a while - busy bars, people going to very EU/intentional focused events and then you've the people who live there full time. It didn't necessarily equate that those were Belgians by birth or anything like that, but it was just that they were the long term community and others were just breezing in and out.

    There are all sorts of cultural differences, circumstantial differences and so on to overcome when you move somewhere and they can apply as much in Ireland to someone moving from say Dublin to Cork or whatever. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the fact that you're from another country, just that you are not plugged into the networks and are perhaps not understanding quite how they work in a different country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,976 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Irish also do a lot small talk. Other cultures can find that intrusive and unfriendly.

    Irish ask each other where they are from all the time. Some people don't like that for the same reason as above.



  • Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭Ceramic


    Yeah that's a big one and also very true of Americans, although they have different 'off limits' areas about smalltalk.

    In general in Ireland avoid small talk about money, jobs or trying to be in anyway boastful / anything that might be seem to be boastful (same applies in France actually) whereas in the US dropping in how much you earn seems to be almost acceptable. In Ireland, if you get paid a complement like "oh that's a lovely jumper" just say "ah sure that's just something I found in the press that I bought in Penneys in 1984" Do NOT say "Oh yeah that's my Gucci jumper I spent 2 grand on..." It doesn't impress and above all else DO NOT say "thanks" to a complement. They'll be like "would you look at himself/herself... absolutely full of it! Self-deprecation is the way forward! "Your hair's lovely .." "Really!? You must be mad! I thought it looked shite.. sure I only ran a comb through it!" that kind of thing.

    Also having a good old moan about something relatively non-political / inoffensive is often a good point to start off, and has nothing to do with expressing your dissatisfaction / depression. It's just a conversation starter. Whereas if you try that in the US, you'd likely get sent for counselling and antidepressants.

    The 'oh so where are you from?' often means ... 'desperately searching for network mode' has been activated i.e. you'll say "I'm from (insert obscure country)" and you'll get "what part?" and they'll go eventually come up with some absolutely ludicrously complicated connection to it i.e. their uncles, sister's brother-in-law's teacher's aunt's dentist's is married to some lad from there.

    It's all about learning the nuances of a different culture and they all are quite different in some ways that can be a bit hard to get the hang of. Ireland is by and large very friendly, but it's also an island and has its own quirks that you really do need to learn to navigate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,976 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Irish people are well traveled. They often have been where you're from and want to share stories.

    But know your audience. If you are talking to someone who never traveled, they probably aren't interested. In the US you often meet people who have never been further than 200km from there they were born and no interest in anything outside of that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭Ceramic


    That also depends on your audience in the US. It gets progressively more open minded the closer you get to the coasts in general (with a few big inland cities being the exceptions).

    Knowing your audience is vital everywhere though and also just being aware that different cultures are genuinely .. different. What has worked all your life as your tools for socialising may need to adapt somewhere else. That's part of the fun of travel and living somewhere else though too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 198 ✭✭Deiselurker


    It's a bit of a general thing to say that Irish people don't befriend foreigners. Some do. I'm good friends with a man and his wife who moved to Ireland from Romania about 15 years ago. They are settled here and have children born here.

    There can be language and cultural differences and maybe some people as said by other posters have made their friends by early 20s and aren't interested in new friends. It is worth it on both sides to make an effort if you want to make friends from another country.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭Ceramic


    I don't agree that Irish people don't befriend people from overseas, considering my own experience here of knowing loads of people from abroad and a lot of my fiends and family member are even married to people from elsewhere.

    I don't think Ireland's all that difficult to socialise in, but you do have to adjust to a culture and a way of doing things that might not be exactly the same as what you're used to.

    The other issue I would say is that the last 2 years here have been utterly weird and they've been weird everywhere. I wouldn't base any experience of any country on how things were during the COVID lockdown and restrictions period. We're really only back to semi-normality in the last few months and it will take time for things to fully reestablish themselves. A lot of casual opportunities to network were very limited and it's a particularly profound shock here as our social spaces are all about mingling in busy spaces like bars.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭kingtut


    Most of my friends are foreign ... not sure why you assume no Irish people have foreign friends. Strange!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭kravmaga


    I fixed your headline OP, should read as follows.

    "Why dont foreign people befriend Irish people".

    I find that a lot of foreign people tend to stick with themselves, ie Brazilians, Polish, Baltic states etc etc.

    When it comes to work yes its a mix, however social life and family life there is too much of a cultural difference and different value systems.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭bertiebomber


    No i didnt ,and i integrated well when in their country but ultimately i like irish friends and that is my choice . I can see its a source of humour for you, like i said people under 30 may not get this as they have never lived in a country exclusively irish. Ireland has been multi cultured for about 25 /30 years so they went to school with foreigners. I didnt I went to an all girls school absolutely no foreign students so i am of a different era perhaps dear. So a bit less sniggering if you dont mind and a small bit of understanding that there are the multicultural loving irish and the not so. We all exist and oddly enough the not so multicultural loving irish own most of the property in Ireland. So maybe you should focus on how this happened maybe down to the influx of people.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    I am well over 30 and in my experience where there is an apprehension on any level by people it is aimed at what is considered low level criminal activity either on the streets or in house burglaries. The most overwhelming perpetrators of these crimes are white Irish. That said people generally realise how safe Ireland is as a country and there is very little in the way of the bigotry present in your post. This is why Ireland has never really entertained the radical right at any level and see Gemma and Mark as oddities to be sniggered at.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,787 ✭✭✭jackboy


    I remember being in a queue in a chipper after a night out. There was two drunk girls in their twenties over and over telling this black guy in the queue that he looked like Bob Marley. He didn’t in any way, for a start he had a tight haircut, so obviously the only resemblance was the colour of his skin.

    He was very patient but hard to befriend people who behave like that when drunk. That is just one example but I have seen many such incidents like that of drunk Irish to foreigners. You need to get an Irish person drunk to see their true personality, and it often is not pleasant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    Would you really want to be friends with somebody who is offended by something as innocuous as asking where they’re from?

    I’ve seen this happen once in Australia. I was in a pub in Sydney with another Irish friend having a few beers, catching up. A black African guy sat next to us and started engaging in conversation. We weren’t really interested, but were polite.

    My friend asked him where he was from. He immediately hit the roof. Went on a rant saying he was from Australia and how dare we assume otherwise. Needless to say we moved to another table and made it clear that he wasn’t welcome to join.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    Wow. Way to go with the stereotyping. You need to get Irish people drunk to see their true personality and it’s ‘often’ not pretty.

    And the award for the most idiotic generalization goes to ‘jackboy’. Well done you for wheeling out the nasty alcoholics stereotype.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,691 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Unfortunately this is true, some of us can't see the line between 'the craic' and being a dickhead on a night out. Usually but not exclusively younger males.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Bertie. I'd be one of those posters who would be very critical of Irish immigration policies and multiculturalism (I'm also in my mid 40s) but what you've said is rather inaccurate. Crime in Ireland has shifted in scope due to a changing culture. There hasn't been any real jumps in crime due to foreigners, with the vast majority still being committed by Irish people. Most people I know who have spoken about their worries relating to crime are more worried about gangs of teenagers than anything else.

    I've also spent many years abroad, and I like foreigners. Generally. And in my experience, that bears out with other Irish people who have lived abroad. They have foreign friends and no issues about making new foreign friends. The problem is exposure. With the exception of cities like Galway or Dublin, there's little real interaction between foreign groups and Irish, as foreign migrant groups tend to stick together, so unless you meet people through work or education it can be difficult to find them elsewhere.

    It is your choice, I don't think anyone is suggesting differently.. but your fears are unrealistic.

    The most overwhelming perpetrators of these crimes are white Irish.

    Because the population of Ireland is still predominately white Irish. However, you should take a wee look at the breakdown of those in Irish prisons, or have been convicted of crimes in Ireland. There's quite a few foreigners on that list, especially from particular countries. However, Bertie is exaggerating... and you're downplaying. There's no serious problem with crime by foreigners in Ireland. Yet. Maybe never, but it is definitely possible considering the way migrant populations have increased in the rest of Europe and their impact/presence on crime statistics.

    This is why Ireland has never really entertained the radical right at any level and see Gemma and Mark as oddities to be sniggered at.

    Not really. Irish people have never displayed any kind of superiority complex, and their experiences with other racial groupings has been quite limited. Also most Irish people are conformist in nature, and prefer to stick to the centre in their politics and beliefs.

    However, times are a changing. Anger and bitterness over Ireland's immigration policies, and the failure to implement any kind of integration/assimilation plan, are all contributing towards greater interest in an Irish version of the radical right. Not the same as the right in other countries (because they have the history with them), but it's there anyway, and growing. Although, in all honesty, I suspect it's more to do with the closed shop of Irish politics and the feeling that no Irish party really represents the interests of the Irish people, rather than any kind of xenophobia.



Advertisement