What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP
Comments
-
On the contrary, I don't need to hear about these things in the news.
I'm not sure how you can say we are seeing so many problems in Blanchardstown, and then recall one incident? You do know gardai have had to shoot other people?
There were no other people being attacked in the area in relation to this incident.
So, what problems are we seeing?
0 -
How many times do we have to restart the discussion of this thread ?
Mass influx of people into a small country that cant handle the population increase especially when its being driven/supported by people that display nothing but disdain for the people already here is not good for Ireland. But I'm starting to think that the point.
9 -
It was ONE example - there are other reports of gangs out that way trying to copy London gangs and attacks, although most of it doesn't make it to RTE or the MSM (except maybe in vague terms when it comes to the perpetrators) because of fear of being "racist"
There most certainly were others attacked during that incident, including a woman and her son outside a petrol station (with Gardai being attacked at the same location), a security guard in the Centre, an entire shop held hostage by protestors for a time, and even an innocent Dublin Bus got a kicking..
A quick google will show that as would the very long thread that was here on that topic (if you can find it on this site anymore), but I'm sure you know all this despite the above post.
5 -
Gardai were not assaulted as a result of this incident. I did hear about a bit of aggro at the shop alright, nothing that doesn't happen regularly in Dublin unfortunately.
'There are reports of gangs out that way trying to copy London gangs and attacks'
Really? Are there? What attacks and where exactly are you seeing these reports?
Never mind your msm afraid of being racist, that's just complete rubbish
0 -
Sure wasn't there millions more on the island before the famine, it'll be grand, loads of space. Ireland has been, and will continue to be be, better for opening up to foreign nationals, regardless of where they come from or why they are here
0 -
Advertisement
-
Here's a link for you - video doesn't play for me, but that might just be my popup blocker.
Again, if you want to, feel free to dig out the Boards thread where lots of posters were posting video from Twitter etc of events on the day.
3 -
How would we be "for the better" ?
14 -
gardai were not assaulted in relation to the incident, nor does the article you link claim that they were. Gardai take this **** everyday all over the country. Pity people are not so supportive usually.
There are no problems in Blanchardstown now, that are any different to incidents there or anywhere else in the city.
I don't need to find the thread, I was in it at the time.
Post edited by [Deleted User] on0 -
You realize those millions more were is such a precarious situation that something that had little effect on mainland Europe resulted in a famine that eventually caused Ireland to lose half of its population?
3 -
Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,163 Mod ✭✭✭✭Join Date:Posts: 59091
There is this odd gra for more people and not just in Ireland and of course with the multiculuralists the more exotic the better. Reasons given are things like pensions and lower birth rates. Given Ireland has one of the highest birthrates in the EU... But it's more about more consumers and of course the politic of "multiculturalism", with a large sideorder of saying stuff like what you quoted as a baiting exercise as true believers in this politic are quite convinced that anyone who questions their credo is a far right nazi ready with bedsheets and burning crosses. The "regardless of where or why they are here" the sugar on top. Even if they're utter wasters and a drain on a society sure no bother.
As for the "before the famine" ballsology, yep there were more people and it was also one of the poorest nations in Europe and had almost no wilderness left. And the famine showed how vulnerable it was. I would argue and ignoring the multicultural politic entirely, that what nations and the world and environment needs is fewer people, not more. The single biggest thing anyone can do for the environment is have one fewer child. But like so called "open borders", "mooore people" is where the Left(who are also more likely to be environmentalists) and the Capitalists(who are more likely to be not) agree to be strange bedfellows.
Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
18 -
Advertisement
-
The guy admitted to assisting people breaking our country's laws. Or, is breaking the law ok with you once its for something you agree with and makes you feel nice and virtuous? 😆🤡
7 -
"Regardless of where they come from or why they are here" 😆😆
So if someone was to come here with the intent to commit crime, DaCor assures us it is still for the better of the country. Makes sense. Clown world here today 🤡🤡
7 -
Yeah that'll happen when the bulk of the populations calorific intake is based around a monoculture.
Not an issue nowadays though
1 -
More diverse population, higher GDP, larger workforce to fill openings, more culturally diverse etc etc.
0 -
True, nowadays the issues are different: healthcare, housing, childcare, primary education, all these already stretched beyond their limits. In any case, it's not a valid argument to say that Ireland can accommodate a much larger population because it did in the past - it never did it successfully, and the failure was immense.
9 -
Sometimes I wonder if certain people/groups would like to see Ireland be essentially a second/third world nation, with crumbling services, and massive issues with poverty. Cause if they keep piling on the costs, they're likely to get it.
Some people really should spend a few months in Asia. China, Singapore, etc. Step away from the tourist/high wealth areas, and see what the standard of living is in highly populated areas, along with the quality of services they can avail of. There's reasons why such cultures tend to be more authoritarian, and the wealth inequality is so strong. But nah.. it would be different in Ireland. I think they've forgotten what kind of government Ireland had when we were a poor nation. Strict censorship, widespread inequalities, corruption, etc.
13 -
"More diverse population", what does this mean ? Why is it better than our current population make-up or that of 50 years ago ?
"Higher GDP" - Again I haven't seen evidence of this unless you are talking about multi-nationals such as Apple and Pharma firms which distort the reading of Irelands GDP.
"Larger workforce" leads to employers having more leverage and bargaining power to avoid raising wages and unfair working contracts.
"More culturally diverse" , same as diverse population , what does this mean exactly ? and how does this do us good ?
"etc etc" - what are the things you left out here or is it just diversity again ?
20 -
On another Current Affairs/IMHO topic you are vehemently opposed to Irish people building in this described "loads of space" not to mention the extra C02 emissions that an increasing population on this island will generate.
But it is an issue - alot of our food is imported. Where do you, for example, think avocados are grown? - hint it's not in Fallon and Byrne's back garden.
More consumerism, yay! I hope it's all carbon-neutral.
12 -
nowadays the issues are different: healthcare, housing, childcare, primary education, all these already stretched beyond their limits.
As has been pointed out ad nauseum, issues like those have been issues for the state since its foundation and will be until its demise. As such, they are not a valid reason for not doing X, Y or Z.
0 -
All explained many times within this thread.
If you wish to know the meaning of different terms, I'd suggest google
0 -
Advertisement
-
Not explained, just buzz words and phrases trotted out in place of actual arguments.
18 -
A read of this will give you an insight in to how easy it is to game the system - the system encourages it: http://www.stevenroyedwards.com/onthedole_.html
An American on the dole in Ireland
I left the United States in May of 2000 with a 90-day round-trip ticket to London Gatwick, and returned home 11 years later.
I was on the dole in Ireland for about six years, unemployed or under-employed between February of 2005 and April of 2011.
I was not entitled to social-welfare payments. I was not entitled to the PPS number that I had received in 2001. Having traveled there with only an American passport, I was not even entitled to stay.
In fact, technically, I was in a period of history between where I was not entitled to be in any one of the European countries for more than 90 days and a time when I would not be able to be in the European Union at all for more than 90 days.
The PPS number is the Irish social-services and tax number, a resident's all-purpose identifying string of seven digits and one or two letters that is requisite in all official transactions.
I rolled into Kilkenny on Bus Eireann on September 11th, 2001, and got a job a couple of days later. That night I went out with a couple of co-workers to Sid Harkin's pub and met a load of people who would be important to me for the rest of my time in town. But that's another story. At the restaurant where I was working as kitchen porter, the chef asked me, after a couple of brown envelopes, if I'd go get a PPS number.
I figured I'd go, ask, and then return with the "bad news" — that I'd have to keep working for cash.
To my surprise, the receptionist at social welfare photocopied my passport, had me do some paperwork, and said they'd post out my Social Services card. And they did.
That winter was a hard one, financially. A friend suggested that I go on the dole.
Kilkenny 2001, a brief history...This is where I encountered a phenomenon that would be consistent in the near-decade that followed, which is that the Irish people did not think of me as a foreigner. I don't flatter myself — it wasn't my charming demeanour that made the Irish people consider me one of their own; it was the fact that I'm American. Not Irish but not not-Irish, or something. I can't explain it, but it was a fact of my life and it worked in my favo(u)r. [Q.V.] I encountered several occasions where somebody'd be "giving out" about all these foreigners coming in and taking advantage — and me standing right there.... I'd say but I'm a foreigner and they'd say "no you're not," without even pausing to consider that I'd made a valid point. When my friend suggested a trip to the social-welfare office he was thinking that I'd be entitled to some financial assistance. The lady at the hatch, holding my Social Services card, told me "you're not supposed to have this." Oh, I didn't know that, I said, carefully removing it from between her fingers. So that was it. I could work.
That was in 2002. That February I got a job at a department store. It was a welcome respite from the kitchens. I worked there until I volunteered to be the union shop steward when the previous holder of that position went on maternity leave. The shop steward is necessary for any representation at all, no matter that we were all paying fees — and I got into one of my justice-for-the-workers moods. The manager sacked me. That was not legal; but I'd made the mistake of telling his assistant manager something about my ambiguous legal status. Dublin had called, said Trevor — and that was it, at the end of work on a Friday evening....
In March of 2003, as my native U.S. was preparing for war in Iraq just in case Iraq did or did not comply with UN Security Council Resolution 1441, I told my employer at Zuni restaurant and hotel to go **** himself. I'd also been working for an industrial-cleaning operation a bit with my friend Gary, at that time, and I called him. From that point most of my employment in Ireland was in that line of work.
That summer I made a trip to County Kerry. I just got on a series of buses, and ended up in Dingle. I met a Dutch girl in a hostel there. We re-traced my pocketful of return bus tickets back to Kilkenny. Later in the Summer I went to The Netherlands to be with her. I stayed there — though not with her — for a year and a half.
In January of 2005, with the encouragement of a good friend, I returned to Kilkenny.
In Kilkenny, I found that it was no problem getting my job back at Emerald Cleaners (which had since become "Emerald Facility Services" — Ooh la la! The Celtic Tiger had achieved its apogee. A "champagne bar" had appeared on John Street, even....) The problem was not that I couldn't have my job back but that there weren't any hours, and so they didn't hire me immediately.
I went to FAS, the state employment agency.
The lady at FAS asked me if I'd been to social welfare. No. She recommended I go there. I think she might have even told me that I have to register at Social Welfare before I could avail of the services at FAS.
I did the one thing that would be at the heart of many successful encounters with Irish bureaucracy: I went where I was told I oughta go and I told them there who had suggested I go.
They put me on the dole.
In November of that year, I went on the "dockets." That meant that I was able to do some work, and report it, which would lead to a reduction in that week's social-welfare payment. This was the plum prize. I could work, or not. I'd be okay either way, but it was good to do a bit and earn a bit of extra money, and the work that I was doing was rarely in the same location, and I was working with a friend, so it was great. Gary and I pretty much took care of the Kilkenny area, the supervisor being down in Waterford, and we always did good work and most of the clients appreciated us and it was just generally pretty fuckin alright.
In August of 2009 I moved to Cork. "Moved" is a bit of a stretch. I went there with a backpack. I'd wanted to get out of Kilkenny.
And I love Cork. So I went there, when I returned from my vacation in Romania.
I was able to transfer my dole to Cork. This would have been a simple matter of paperwork, normally. I worried about it, though, and rightfully. I think that I was beginning to stress-test the boundaries of my welcome in the country, because I assessed the risk as worth taking.
I got a job in a bakery in early 2010. I signed off the dole. I've already been told how stupid that was.
The bakery closed in June of that year.
When I went to Social Welfare in Cork, they asked me questions for the first time. I couldn't answer them. Friends told me to return to Kilkenny. In August I did.
In Kilkenny I'd have a better chance at social welfare because they knew me there. Also, my friends were in Kilkenny, so I'd be okay.
In Kilkenny I did a load of paperwork and had several interviews. Social Welfare declared me habitually resident. I got a back-dated payment.
I had some problems where I was living. I had to leave. I talked with a lady named Bridget who owns a few houses around town. She agreed to rent me a place for the same amount I'd been paying in the other place, contingent upon my agreement to apply for rent allowance.
This is where my time in Ireland began to come to a resolution.
I'd asked about rent allowance, a few years earlier, on the advice of a friend. A lady at the office that handles rent allowance applications had told me then that I had "really slipped through the loop," when I'd gotten on the dole. I quietly retracted my paperwork and went away.
In the autumn of 2010, I had little choice. I couldn't stay where I was and I had to promise my prospective landlady that I'd try to get rent allowance. It was part of our agreement, and every week as I paid rent in cash I really felt compelled to give her an honest update about what I'd been doing to resolve this matter. Bridget, as per the Irish tendency, considered me to be legitimately eligible. I was not in a position to disabuse her of this misunderstanding.
The county Housing Authority declared me eligible to sign up for "council housing," publicly-funded accommodation. This is a required precursor to application for rent allowance.
But Community Welfare declared me ineligible because I was not legally resident in the state.
I'm quite certain that the reason that the closer examination of my file went from Community Welfare ("no you can't have rent allowance but you can appeal the decision") to the Social Welfare office was because my new apartment was in the purview of Breda Dermody. Breda Dermody is infamous. I think she made it her personal business to make sure Social Welfare scrutinized my case more carefully. But, anyway, it's all just part of the mystery.
And, in any case, Social Welfare, who had just prior declared me habitually resident, realized then that I'm not Irish. I'm being clever when I say that — they all knew I'm American, as did any Irish person who ever heard me speak. The American accent is obvious to them in an instant.
On the 11th of April, I got a call from Social Welfare. I'd had a strange intuition that morning. I felt ill, nauseated as if I'd had too much to drink, which I had not. I was lying on the couch, feeling better, when the phone rang. A fella named Brian asked me if I have a "Stamp 4" or an Irish passport. Stamp 4 is like a green card, the immigration office's permission to stay. I said no. Brian told me that they'd have to stop my social-welfare payments.
He said he'd send me this information in the post and that I'd have a chance to answer the matter officially. That letter arrived the next day. They didn't wait for my response. That same day I picked up my last payment. The following week it was all over.
I believe that my experience in official Ireland is unique, in the pure sense of that word — singular. I don't think it had ever happened before me, and I don't think it will happen again.
I was always inherently conflicted about the overwhelming desire to write about this. Now it's over. The potential danger of being open about it is removed. This is my first attempt to share the story.
5 -
No I don't think so, or I sincerely hope, that they don't have any bad intention.
It's just their arrogance and bigotry that prevents them from accepting dissenting views, their white knight savior complex that prevents them from seeing things rationally and pragmatically (i.e. Cordell you're an immigrant therefore you MUST support more immigration) and drives them to do and/or support actions that are harmful to them and others and to misdirect their resources towards causes that are not meaningful but good material for their virtue signaling needs - e.g. helping illegals with paperwork instead of volunteering for people that are actually in need. So I usually see them as insufferable arrogant ones rather than evil masterminds :)
9 -
Actually yes, explained many, many, many times in this thread.
Every few weeks someone new comes along and asks "well what does ____ even mean omg!!1!1!"
Then someone offers an explanation, someone disagrees, there's a "debate" for a week, then it dies down, the someone new comes along and asks "well what does ____ even mean omg!!1!1!"
1 -
I thought at this stage there'd be double this number, wonder what the hold up is, anyone know?
0 -
"Higher GDP" - Again I haven't seen evidence of this unless you are talking about multi-nationals such as Apple and Pharma firms which distort the reading of Irelands GDP.
The problem with the claim to higher GDP is that there hasn't been any kind of massive increase in businesses being created (if anything we've seen the economy shrinking due to covid closures). No new major income streams developed. Without the businesses in place to employ this new diverse population, they become a drain on the economy. It works in bigger more traditional economies, because the manufacturing or agricultural (usually big employers) take on the new people, but Irelands portion for both are declining in scope, with farmers actually reporting the difficulties in maintaining what they have without State supports. Most of Ireland's profitable industry is on financial/business services, and relatively high-tech manufacturing which tends to require specialist degrees.
So, where will all these new people be employed? And without employment, where will all these people earn the money to spend in the economy (assuming they're not sending a large percentage of their disposable income abroad, which has been the case for years already)... so how will GDP improve as a result of this larger population?
I seriously doubt DaCor would address anything like that though. I tried to get him to cover it earlier but was ignored. Looking forward to seeing you pin him down on this nonsense.
8 -
Every few weeks someone new comes along and says " increase population, be grand ,diverse cultures, diverse population so great !! omg!!1!1!"
Then someone asks them to elaborate, someone counters, there's a "debate" for a week, then it dies down, the someone new comes along and says "increase population, be grand, diverse cultures, diverse population so great !! omg!!1!1!"
great point, well made .. 🙄
Can you just elaborate on the reasons you've given please ?
6 -
-
It's easy to virtue signal about issues if you haven't experienced the negative ramifications such issues can bring.
You see, if you just keep piling on the costs, and bring in as many people as possible, regardless of "where they are from and why they are here", things will always work out for the best, money grows on trees, and we'll all live happily ever after 🤣🤡
7 -
Advertisement
-
Don't recall you asking me any such question, but either way here's some info for you.
Prior to covid, we were at at 5% unemployment, which, in macro economic terms, is considered full employment. Once you go below that it actually starts to hurt the economy so you need to aim for around 5-6% because you want to always have a slight surplus of people floating around. Once you go below, you start seeing a hit to productivity, competiveness, efficiencies etc
Now, while we saw an increase of unemployment during covid for obvious reasons, that will be largely cleared up within another 12-18 months, notwithstanding the potential upset of increased inflation. CSO source
Indeed, what we see now is while the % unemployed is up slightly on pre-covid figures, there has been an increase in the overall numbers employed
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/employment-numbers-top-2-5m-for-the-first-time-1.4805165Its a delicate balancing act, between inflation, output and employment #'s and the more stable those #'s are, the better the long term picture and the more consistent growth there is. As we come out of the covid spike, we'll start seeing unemployment #'s dip below 5%, and without action, we would likely keep heading towards 4%.
It is likely this very scenario which prompted the actions to regularize so many, with no limit set while they cleared the decks. It also figured greatly in the decision on the #'s of Ukranians to bring over. For every 1,000 they bring over, possibly 20% will end up staying here for good but that % is a total guess on my part.
So, as to how regularisation can lead to higher GDP, simply put, a larger workforce will produce more
Post edited by [Deleted User] on1