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The annual Teachers threaten to strike thread

1246716

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,622 ✭✭✭Treppen


    You haven't a clue, teachers agreed to the government's pay deal in 2010 and they promised no paycuts if we agreed not to strike.

    They then changed it to 'no paycuts for current teachers' in the Dáil subsequently, and teachers couldn't strike...

    Would you have supported teachers if they had gone on strike then???


    I too always have a laugh when I hear this one from the uneducated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,622 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Would the teacher bashers on here be in favour of pay rises for teachers if their student's results improved?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭onrail


    Yes, I'm haggling.

    Would you trade your exceptionally short working year for better conditions elsewhere?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,975 ✭✭✭enricoh


    So is any teacher shortages basically down to that foreign teachers can't teach here to replace Irish teachers that went abroad? Time for the teaching council to get hauled over the coals if so.

    I know the hospitals would close in the morning only for foreign staff in to replace Irish doctors n nurses that went to oz, Dubai etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭History Queen


    Would our contracts be amended to include admin in line with our UK counterparts and would the promotional oppertunities there be applied to here? (Cherrypicking by me obviously, there's a lot of their system I'd hate to see here, selfishly and because of how poor their system is).


    If just the calendar and we retain our current weekly teaching hours I think both teachers and students will be wrecked. Would also pose issues for SEC recruiting examiners and supervisors, let alone turning around results. I think I'd go with it if the pay increase was in line with the extra work but I think it'd be a bad idea overall for education.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 145 ✭✭LittleBrick


    Seem people bitching year in year out.

    I'm a teaching, rapidly trying to leave the profession. (It took me 4 years and a cross country move to get a job, and now I'm stuck in a school where the principals pals get any form of promotion opportunity). I can move school without starting from the bottom. I would have to work over 25 years to get to 65k. I can never, ever, afford a mortgage as a teacher. For this reason, I have no real reason to defend teachers. Again, I am leaving.

    However, why wouldn't a union fight for increased wages in light of rising prices? If nurses, doctors, shop workers etc. feel they should get a pay increase, then they should petition their union to fight for their wages. Stop critisizing teachers for fighting for what every union should be fighting for.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,622 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Me? No , I have family and elderly parents here.

    But there are a lot of younger teachers who do go abroad for better pay. Hence why you might find your son or daughter in 3rd year has had more than 10 maths teachers since 1st year, like in our school, plus NO home ec teacher for 2 months, and 2 languages killed off because it's too hard to get teachers (every student has to do Spanish whether they like it or not).

    Quite unusual, considering its such a great profession according to every man and his dog.

    But I'm sure I'll be told.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭History Queen


    No it's definitely not as simplistic as that.There aren't as many people training to be teachers, or staying here when they do qualify, combined with an increased student population, perfect storm type of thing. But the teaching coucil could definitely be helping matters more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 429 ✭✭Madeoface


    PS Unions just doing what they get paid to do. I don't think teaching is an easy career, and it must be repetitive as hell. However, I think the pay looks commensurate with the hours / training. I understand their gripe but nobody can afford housing a few years out of uni.

    The second level hols always seemed overly long but are part of the contract.

    What I can't get my head around is how primary schools close on half days every mid term, Easter, Halloween, Xmas, summer etc. Wasn't that the type of civil service 'bank time' that was done away with decade's ago?

    My long retired mother in law former primary teacher thought it harked back to teachers getting back 'home' around the country. If so, ffs, time has moved on. I've seen most of the teachers in my little ones school hop into their cars and head off once the kids are out the gates so it ain't to hang back and confer from what I've seen. The optics are poor but those halfers seem to be a gimme. Are they counted as full teaching days? Is it in a contract? (Genuinely asking. If it is, grand. If it isn't, then the Government should have those lost halfers calculated into any new deal).



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    They need to do something, particularly with Maths teachers. It probably makes sense for some subjects to have free fees. For Maths teachers there is probably also a need to have a different scale to other teachers, they have a lot of other options in industry.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭History Queen


    Modern foreign languages, Irish, Home Ec and Physics are also virtually impossible to recruit for in certain parts of the country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    Is there any link/breakdown to teachers pay?

    I feel like they're always threatening strike for more pay but maybe they rarely succeed.

    Would like to see their actual pay before I cast judgement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,622 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Any teachers on here ever wonder why were always 'told' what our job is…?

    Reminds me of that time when Trump came up with a COVID cure in 10 seconds , then doubled down and discovered another one.

    See that doctor sitting down.... That's teachers right now.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭onrail


    I mean would you adopt the UK system, not move location, as such.

    Anyway, my 2c is that teaching isn't easy, but is quite well paid for the amount of hours worked. I'd like any reasonably experienced teacher to honestly argue otherwise. Not saying there is no work done outside classroom hours, but it tends to be way overblown.

    If money is the issue, any teacher I know with an ounce of drive, generally has at least one cash-in-hand nixer on evenings or during the summer because their timetable allows it. Not something you'll hear mentioned the ASTI conference.

    But... I probably couldn't do the job, but who knows.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Still no good reason why anyone gets annoyed about teachers looking for a pay rise.

    It's very strange, must just be pure Irish begrugery!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭History Queen


    Google teacher salary scale (put in primary or post primary) all publicly available. Payscale refers to full time employment.


    Attached is link to salary scale applicable to post primary teachers hired since 2011.

    https://www.asti.ie/your-employment/pay/salary-scales/post-2011-common-basic-scale/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,975 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Fair enough. The points are going up for teaching ( I know there was plenty of grade inflation) so it seems to be still popular for students to get into. Maybe more course places are required so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,622 ✭✭✭Treppen


    I don't do any 'cash in hand' nixer. I don't know of any other teacher I work with who does either!

    I do know that every private sector tradesman I've ever paid is always cash in hand though.

    I know of teachers who do work at a second seasonal job though. Like marking or invigilation , but that ain't no 'handy doss job'.

    ...and no the UK system stinks, I wouldn't be in favour of it, despite the fact that your government overlords are hell bent on ramming it through here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Good job we had a teacher around to teach PHK how to use Google.

    When did teachers threaten strike, btw PHK?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,622 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Yes the teaching council are a useless bunch who tie everything up in paperwork. Many's the engineer who's been told they didn't have the requirement for maths teaching🤣.

    But that is not the fault of teachers. You would rarely find a teacher who wouldn't like to see them abolished and brought back to the department of education, like they did in the UK. I'd agree with the UK on that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Physics might need to be grouped in with Maths in terms of the need to attract graduates who would have a lot of other options. I feel we could reduce the demand side with Irish by making it optional after the JC.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,622 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Optional Irish for LC will never happen. No politician wants to be the one that killed the language lol.

    Physics is being let die a death. Stem me hole. Once our physics teacher retires next year the subject is gone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    Jesus they've some neck. Given that's for about 6 months work and zero requirement to over achieve. Presumably anyone in before 2011 is even better off?

    Greed is some drug.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Any PS pay rises will have to come from the shared pot. The money could otherwise be used for other things, like say, energy subsidies that benefit everyone, maybe the renters tax credit, free GP for older kids etc.

    The other option would be to increase taxes to cover the increase in salaries. Obviously people wouldn't be happy with that, especially with the cost of living at the moment.

    I would wonder if it might be better for teachers to have their annual conferences in private. I think some of those in the unions have a wicked sense of humour and like trolling us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭onrail


    I honestly don't know any teacher who doesn't do grinds/tuition for cash. Weird.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,676 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Wow that was big of you not to strike back in 2010 when the economy was on the floor, companies were going to the wall and people were losing their jobs left right and centre.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭History Queen


    Again, google it. Interested to hear what you think would be a fair salary?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,797 ✭✭✭✭kippy




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  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    I think the linked salary scale is more than fair. 52k after 10 years on the job? Almost 40k straight out of college? All for 70% of everyone else's working year?

    Only greed would make you think otherwise. But it's human nature. So I'm not surprised that teachers can't see it for what it is.

    I'm just jealous they get to go on stage every year and beat their chest like a scene from wolf on wallstreet screaming for more money. I'd fcuking love that too. I'd be biting the head off a pigeon for the baying mob.

    But its pure delusion thinking you're being hard done by. You're being paid considerably more than the average PAYE worker, who is essentially the one paying your wage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭JayPS 2288


    So neither you nor any teacher you’ve met has ever done grinds. I don’t believe you.

    On the tradesmen situation situation, that’s on you for not asking for a receipt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,678 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Define improved? The grade inflation that occurred recently with the Leaving Cert wasn't a great indicator of how that might work.

    If however it means that the students arriving into 3rd level are comparable with even the weakest students doing likewise back in the 80s/90s when most could differentiate, integrate, do basic probability etc, then perhaps! But with the dumbing down of the curriculum over the last few decades, I'd doubt even the teachers can do the required math.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,766 ✭✭✭✭Geuze



    The three union websites have the pay scales:

    www.into.iw

    www.asti.ie

    www.tui.ie



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,009 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Seems to be a metric pulled out of some Union Rep's arse to justify the longest holidays in Europe.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,766 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    There are two pay scales, this is the scale for recent hires:


    Revised salary scale for teachers who entered the profession since 1/1/11. 

    This includes the full value of the Honours Primary Degree Allowance and a 1% increase to all points effective from 1/10/21.

    *Effective from 1st March 2019, scale points 4 and 8 have been removed from post-1st January 2011 ‘new entrant’ scales. The measure means that new and recent entrants will ‘jump’ these points and progress up the scale quicker. 

    1€38,192

    2€39,735

    3€41,4964

    €42,300 *

    5€43,432

    6€44,799

    7€46,334

    8€47,880- *

    9€49,171

    10€51,487

    11€52,934

    12€54,664

    13€56,386

    14€58,121

    15€59,571

    16€61,491

    17€61,491

    18€61,491

    19€64,139

    20€64,139

    21€64,139

    22€64,139

    23€67,638

    24€67,638

    25€67,638

    26€67,638

    27€71,503



    It's a long scale!!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭JayPS 2288


    How would you know my profile is locked if you didn’t attempt to stalk it in the first place?

    What should a person’s first post be? In your educated opinion?

    A difference in opinion is not trolling.


    @Beasty



  • Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭JayPS 2288




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭History Queen


    I dunno when you last watched Wolf of Wallstreet but it's a far cry from the mostly mundane business of congress! 🤣 as for the rest of your post... teachers don't typically start on full pay and 52k after 10 years working full time and 6 years in college isn't outlandish.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,622 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Out of 40 teachers in our school there's about 5 that do it all the time. The odd few do it for a favour for relative or neighbor.

    The ones that do do it are usually under 30. Anyway, not my cup of tea, . If they got rid of the bonus points for honours maths I'd say the numbers taking grinds would have.

    Either way it's neither here nor there, I would suggest any teacher do do a cash in hand job to supplement their income. That's fraud.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,622 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Jesus, on one hand your ilk are saying we shouldn't be striking for better pay... and then you're saying we should have.


    ... and BTW we did strike for pay equality a few years later.... So are you in favour of that or what?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,622 ✭✭✭Treppen


    You give the impression that the teacher bashers on here would be happy if teachers worked longer hours.

    But it's obvious no matter how long teachers work theyll never be happy.


    Maybe you should be campaigning for longer holidays through your Union... rather than hoping a worsening of someone else's position will make you happy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,272 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    lots of teachers are on part time


    I thought they were all on part-time? 20 hours a week for a few weeks of the year


    😋


    *runs away*



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko



    Again, maybe you should actually develop some understanding of what happens in reality on the ground before you go making wild generalisations.

    Teachers don't start out their careers on the full starting salary. They get part-time work for months or years until they find a full time post. The €40k figure is theoretical only.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,622 ✭✭✭Treppen


    I'd be just as happy teaching the old level course as the new stuff, but it was imposed upon us with much fighting and bashing from folk on here.


    BTW teachers went on strike opposing this shite new JC curriculum, unions warned of what would happen when project maths was brought in (matrices and vectors killed off ) and hopefully we will strike again when the department of education further dumb down the Leaving Cert.... Will you support us then?



  • Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭JayPS 2288


    Would have what?


    If they got rid of the bonus points for honours maths I'd say the numbers taking grinds would have.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,211 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Exactly .

    Same when the bonus was mooted for healthcare workers..all the usual anti public service / anti union commentators came out with their ill informed comments and bitterness.

    The coverage on RTE was not proteacher , but was predictably anti union emphasising any mention of strikes or ballots but little mention of what was actually discussed otherwise.

    I am not a teacher and as a parent of a LC student would be aghast if a strike was called as students have suffered enough over the last couple of years . But I know a union move on an agenda when I see one and that is what the teachers unions are doing , and more power to them!

    Bashing teachers or other public servants seems to be a ( blood ) sport on boards and most of the posts do not deserve to be replied to , as they are just pure bile ..

    The most ridiculous was the 40 year old ' pharmacy worker ' on €100, 000 a year !

    What is your problem ,man ? If that is really true , be happy, you're lucky , move on and leave those , on half your salary with probably as much at least , education and college degrees , alone .

    Believe me if you invest some of that lovely dosh you are earning in AVCs you will come out well ahead of any ps pension without breaking a sweat .


    Teachers are well paid to be fair , and have great terms and conditions, I won't lie, compared to nurses and other public servants , but they teach our children very very well and that to me is worth the money/ holidays.

    As for the unions, all down to the strength of the workers, fair play . That is what our forefathers fought for after all , the right to organise and join a union .

    Private sector workers really should stop bxxching and moaning and get organised instead .

    And for the poster that looks forward to the next time Leo comes out and says , " stop looking for more money ".... just know that is so he and the other tds will have plenty in the pot for their next ( very considerable) payrise .

    Go teachers , we are behind you ..😉

    Post edited by Goldengirl on


  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    All these people that are making so much money themselves in their jobs, but they care so much about teachers looking for a few quid more a year!

    What could their issue be? Begrugery. How is it anything else?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,906 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    I think most people understand that more pay to teachers means either more taxes, less pay to other public service or less investment in infrastructure. This is pretty much the reason why public service pay deals exist.

    The annual nature of it makes it farcical.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭hamburgham


    That recently qualified solicitor mentioned working one day from 8am to 2am in the morning. And if you honestly think there is any comparison between the hours a newly qualified accountant would work and a teacher, dream on.



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