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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭nigeldaniel


    Germany's problem is a tricky one. If their economy were to suffer badly they would have their own right-wing extremist to deal with. It's a case of better the devil you know. I think there are plenty of Germanys and German politicians that will continue to support Ukraine in every way they can and covertly. It's a tight rope they have to walk. Ireland are not much better in many regards. We could empty out all that heavy gear in the Curragh camp and send it on but we won't. We could shut down the Russian embassy but we won't. Another tightrope there. A lot of Irish passport holders living in Russia and Russia friendly countries could end up being used as pawns by the Russians. Politics is a strange business. Not too far off a James Bond movie.

    Dan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,916 ✭✭✭ronivek


    Also I didn't see this posted yet but rumours abound that the UK is adding another new system to its support: the Stormer.

    They're basically just a vehicle for launching LMM and Starstreak missiles; but it gives the operator some protection and also the ability to potentially engage multiple air targets in quick succession.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,428 ✭✭✭ZX7R





  • Registered Users Posts: 4,570 ✭✭✭jackboy


    We have been clear with Ukraine from the start about what support we were willing to give. Germany has been the opposite of clear.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,508 ✭✭✭wassie


    I think we will start to see a concerted campaign putting out the message that if you buy German goods right now you are effectively funding Putin’s war.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Canada and the UK sending heavy artillery to add to what the Americans are deploying this week ,and Romania is changing it's laws to allow weapons to be sent to ukraine




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,883 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Nope they were clear at the "start" (pre invasion, while Putin was making threats and gathering his forces).

    They had same position as us now really in terms of their support (money, aid excluding weapons) but they changed after Russia invaded.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,508 ✭✭✭wassie


    We could shut down the Russian embassy but we won't. Another tightrope there. A lot of Irish passport holders living in Russia and Russia friendly countries could end up being used as pawns by the Russians.

    If you closed down the Russian embassy here, they would do the same there. You would be throwing Irish passport holders living in Russia to the wolves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    @GM228 thanks for finding the information much appreciated ,



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭zv2


    Correction; that 'Mariupol' explosion seems to have been a warehouse explosion in Balaklei in 2017. I wish people would stop faking so much.

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,994 ✭✭✭rogber


    This is the reality. They aren't some evil secret Putin supporters the way they're being portrayed now here. They naively thought they could tame Putin by economic means and Steinmeier, one of the architects of that approach, has admitted they made big mistakes and got it wrong.

    They can't just decouple their economy and energy supplies from Russia overnight. Their military is feeble and they also have an extremely complicated history which involved trying to enslave Russia less than a century ago and is also making them reluctant to be militarily involved. The same reason they never criticise Israel.

    On the other hand, they are donating huge amounts of humanitarian aid and all refugees are entitled to financial aid from the state and accomodation for at least the next few months,free language classes to help integrate etc.

    Yes, they can and should do more, but it's not as black and white as many here claim.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Germany would have to deal with a right wing extremist if things get bad you say.


    The old German line of "you won't like it when we get angry".


    No one buys it any more.


    No doubt Germany will take a hit but it will not be a standout recession by any means.


    That it has any affect on growth at all is enough.


    This right wing extremist you fear would have to be pretty bad to match the blood on Merkel and ScholZ's hands.


    This is Germany today.

    https://m.independent.ie/world-news/europe/death-toll-in-mariupol-could-top-20000-says-mayor-as-corpses-carpeting-streets-41544281.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,994 ✭✭✭rogber


    Careful posting such sensible comments, you'll be quickly labelled a Kremlin agent.

    Indeed, not just Ireland, what are France and, say, Spain doing? Seems the main militarily help is from US and UK, who are always happy to join a war that suits them, and the Eastern Europeans, who have good reason to fear Russia.

    The situation is far more complex than the emotional mud slinging of posters here would ever concede



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    The fifth largest arms exporter in the world is out of weapons bar scraps it found from the 80s.


    A German arms exporter said it would give equipment for free if Berlin approved. Berlin naturally didn't approve.


    They are charlatans.


    Germany may well have a deal done with an eye on the longer term and post war settlement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,883 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Afair they expelled a token number from the embassy (4).

    I did see there was some coordination around the EU when this happened and I noticed several other countries, not even large ones, were expelling them in blocks of 10-20 or so. Russia sent 2 home from the Irish embassy in retaliation afterwards.

    Other countries sent more packing after evidence of the Russian atrocities in parts of N. of Ukraine they occupied emerged.

    I speculate the worry is if Ireland even expel too many (not go so far as to close it...), the Russians might just close down the Irish embassy completely. So it is fear of the negative consequences driving it, as always with these things. But of course it is only Germans who think this way (about how to respond to Russia's invasion) we are told.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    The Germans have been dealing with a growing far right problem for the last 25 + years,and by all accounts sponsored by outside forces aka the Kremlin,



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,036 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Wouldn't it be marvellous if someone blew up nordstream 1 and nordstream 2



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    "Ukraine gave such resistance to the invaders that military mercenaries from the Caucasus refuse to go to warAbout

    this is evidenced by the private correspondence of the invader from Dagestan.

    In a conversation with his friend, he refuses to participate "in the special operation", because the losses are huge, including among the Kadyrovites.

    "Our hundreds of people have fallen from somewhere, and they have already sat down. Kadyrovtsev so lodge. Grazhdansky skolko killed in this war," he writes to his friend.

    At the same time, he understands that Russia does not care about the death of Caucasians: "Rusakas use us, delayut everything with our hands."

    The occupier admits that he himself would have abandoned everything and went home, but is afraid that he will "be imprisoned for desertion." Tom wants to save at least a friend.

    "This is not our war! Let mermaids, esli nado, themselves are at war! Sit quietly," the occupier emphasizes."

    Operational APU


    Chechens not too happy it seems. The Ukrainians even discovered some recently killed were Libyan mercenaries. The Orcs looking for barrels they can scrape.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭20silkcut



    We are in fog of war territory here. It would be far worse to have a chaotic Germany at the heart of Europe at this time. The optics are atrocious no doubt but we are not privy the full details of what informs their policy right now. Germany has been caught with its pants down with regard to its dependence on Russia. They really have been caught blindsided and were tone deaf to the threat from Putin. Their politicians are not great communicators either and I’m sure there is a certain amount of face saving going on for their utter stupidity of the last 10 years. In times of war countries do callous things even when they are on the right side. Germany could thrash their economy now and next thing we have something on our hands that makes Ukraine look like a picnic in 6 months or a years time. Germany cutting off Russian gas would be like a heroin addict going cold Turkey. Worse probably. It’s quite possible Putin has back channelled to the Germans that any increase in weapons sent will result in restricted supply. The countries that are sending the most weapons U.K./USA are the ones he has least hold over in that regard. This war is an unbelievable damning of Eu energy policy of the past ten years. We even had this beamed into our homes every Wednesday night with Gazprom plastered all over champions league coverage and we lapped it up unquestioning. It used always give me a chill when I saw it.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    How does that work for Russia?

    They demand to be let back into the worlds economy and to freely trade with everyone or else they threaten to use nuclear weapons against the west? I really don't see that as being a successful negotiation tactic. They would just be told to get stuffed and sanctions remaining in place until they learn to play nicely, or they get told that they can rejoin the civilised world once they drop their nuclear arsenal.

    Using nuclear weapons on Ukraine won't get Putin a seat back at the table, it will get him an even bloodier nose and being told to sit on the naughty step for even longer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    No loss, but as I have said before, embassies don't actually do much for individuals in trouble.



  • Registered Users Posts: 665 ✭✭✭goldenmick



    Well the threat worked in preventing Nato/US boots on the ground now. And it's prevented closing the airspace.


    it will get him an even bloodier nose and being told to sit on the naughty step for even longer.


    Like many others on here, I'm of the opinion that the West will still not intervene directly if Putin were to launch a tactical nuke at a non-Nato country. That will make those on here who are concerned only for their own backs very happy. But the bottom line is that Putin becomes more emboldened by the reluctance of the West to intervene. He's a loose cannon who could turn to chemical or nuclear resources at any time, regardless or not of whether anyone "provokes" him.

    We should have set a precedent on day one and sent the troops in. It wouldn't have been invading Russia, it would simply have been defending Ukraine on their own territory. But that's all by the way now.

    I don't believe anyone can predict what's in Putin's mind, but I do believe the day will come when we will have no choice but to call his bluff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    This could yet bring down the German Govt.


    A key Green politician putting out some hard hitting statements.


    "What I can't stand at all: The clumsy attempt to fool the public into believing that you represent an EU-wide unified position and that everything else is going it alone, when in reality it's exactly the other way around and Germany is far and wide alone. "


    He goes on to say Germany are weakening the EU, driving division, that Scholz is arrogant etc etc.

    Lot of key Greens backing him on it.


    We'll see a very brutal incident yet, the German Govt will equivocate again, fight the idea of new sanctions and the Greens will walk.

    Presumably the next Govt would be the Soc Dem Party and the CDU, hardly bad news for Putin.


    Even just bringing down the Govt there will be a blow to Putin as the election distracts his supporters.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    The death toll will have gone up, not down.


    There is plenty of blood on the Chancellor's hands.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    Has anyone read this

    https://meaninginhistory.substack.com/p/talking-about-war-monetary-political?s=r

    The writer hates biden and discusses Mercouris (euggh!) However, the article raises lots of relevant points. Is the Western alliance going to lose. We have so much debt whereas Russia does not. The over 80% of the world's population that is not siding with the USA do not need us, at all.

    Russia - food fertilizer, oil,raw materials

    India - services

    China - manufacturing, tech

    We don't do as much in the west anymore and the USA does not seem to be doing so well. Are we actually destroying ourselves? Will lack of fertilizer/ Ukraine/ inflation result in famine?

    I personally feel very sorry for the people suffering in Ukraine and abroad due to this war but am on the fence between two narratives as I don't know which is correct.

    Are we actually destroying our civilization which is so supply chain dependent? If so, what can we do to save ourselves and help Ukraine?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    But that still isn't getting sanctions lifted or any international trade happening, or buying of oil or gas. Maybe the west doesn't get involved militarily, but they also definitely won't be getting involved economically.

    Threatening the west with nuclear weapons doesn't get them to trade with you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,097 ✭✭✭threeball


    Any irish passport holder still in Russia doesn't deserve any consular support. If you want to live in that dump in that company then don't expect the Irish public to pay for it. The Russian embassy in Dublin should be seized, sold and the funds used to cover the costs of refugees



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,647 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Yeah and on top of that Im disappointed that the Biden administration isn't publicly calling the German govt out on their intransigent response to the war. Im sure they are in the background but they should be making the point publicly that Russia is on the edges of the EU and that Germany has a responsibility to stand up to them.

    Like is the German government on the side of freedom and democracy or are they not, thats the black and white choice here when it is Ukraine who are suffering devastating consequences and war crimes on their population. The largest economy in the EU cant just sit this one out and hope it blows over to keep the gas flowing all while the UK and US are doing the majority of the heavy lifting in supplying weapons to Ukraine.

    In the space of just a few short weeks the German govt. really have thrashed 30 years of soft power and consensus building in the EU by showing that when it really matters that they cant be relied upon. The German govt would do well to remember that there are 35,000 American troops on their soil providing them with a deterrent to Russian aggression and providing the German State with national security. The US should be publicly calling them out on their intransigence on Ukraine , they should turn the screw on them to get their act together. This is a very winnable war for Ukraine but to win it they need the fence sitters to get off the fence.



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