Waterford GAA Thread - Mod note post #1

Minors trailing 0-9 to 0-2 at half time. Conditions are awful but performance levels well down compared to the tipp game

1-22 to 1-8. Play limerick away now in a QF next week

Agree totally, a pure embarrassing performance.

I thought O’Brien was shaky if I’m honest

Surely Dessie warranted inclusion. 1-3 and he had to work hard for it

Conditions awful?

Limerick with a big win against Kerry and god help our lads next week if we play like we did tonight

Waterford 2-24 Tipperary 2-20

Although Waterford could conceivably (or even easily) have lost this game, they should really have won it much more comfortably, were it not for a series of bad wides when they were completely on top in the middle of the second half. This despite the fact that several key players were malfunctioning (especially in the first half), Tipperary played very well for much of the game (perhaps unexpectedly so, especially their more inexperienced players), and Waterford had no coherent game plan that I could detect.

We expected Waterford to come out all guns blazing in this game, especially with Liam Cahill in charge and Tipperary the opposition. Waterford’s warm-up routine was much more impressive than Tipperary’s, in terms of speed and intensity, and when they surged into an early four-point lead, it all seemed to be going to plan. However, Tipp’s first goal seemed to give them a big boost while also deflating Waterford. Perhaps all the pre-match hype about Waterford being potential All-Ireland champions did get to them, despite Cahill’s best efforts to deflect the attention.

For 15-20 minutes Tipperary got very much on top, while Waterford’s error count piled up. By half-time, I noted 23 in all, compared to just four for Tipperary.  Five of these yielded 1-4 in scores to Tipp – almost half their first-half score. It is impossible to tell to what extent the lack of focus was related to the fact that Waterford abandoned the running game, based on working the ball out from the back, which served them so well against Wexford and in the second half against Cork. Waterford relied mainly on long puckouts throughout the game, and for most of it, this was a disastrous tactic. Of eleven long puckouts struck in the first half, Tipperary won no less than ten. Waterford also hit eight short puckouts, but this mainly involved the receiver belting the ball downfield. I recorded just two instances where Waterford got decent possession in the Tipperary half of the field following these short puckouts. Tipperary, by contrast, were getting an even break on their own long puckouts, while also using short puckouts much more constructively than Waterford.

All this meant that Tipperary were able to get a dominant hold in the midfield area and send a steady supply of good ball into their forwards. Waterford, by contrast, were finding it difficult to do this at the other end, as reflected in the fact that Dessie Hutchinson only got the ball in his hand once in the first half. The absence of a running game especially impacted on Cárthach Daly, who was essentially rendered redundant as a result. It also greatly reduced the influence of Neil Montgomery, who thrives on the running game, although he didn’t do too badly compared with some of his team mates and was perhaps a little unlucky to be substituted at half time.

Nevertheless, Waterford were already getting things back on an even keel before half-time, and their explosive start to the second half really knocked Tipp back on their heels. Whether it was the words of Liam Cahill ringing in their ears, or the inspiration provided by Austin Gleeson’s sensational impact (or both), Waterford massively improved their performance level after the change of ends. This was reflected in the fact that Waterford won eight out of Tipp’s ten long puckouts in the second half, forcing them into greater reliance on short puckouts which repeatedly came to nothing under Waterford pressure.

However, with Waterford leaving them off the hook with their series of bad wides, it was almost inevitable that Tipp would get back into the game, which they did via Mark Kehoe’s second soft goal. However, in the final ten minutes, it was their turn to hit five terrible wides, allowing Waterford to apply the coup de grace with their set of excellent late points. One wonders if superior fitness was a key factor in Waterford’s eventual success, especially with Tipp having five relatively new players who may not have yet reached the levels of strength and conditioning required at this level. There was a tired look to some of their late wides. It is also notable that, while for most of the second half, Tipp continued to win the majority of Waterford’s long puckouts, this was reversed in the closing stages when Waterford won four of these puckouts in a row.

In terms of individuals, Patrick Curran probably turned in his best performance at senior level for Waterford. Apart from his four points (and earning two converted frees), his 13 possessions was equalled only by Tadhg de Búrca. Austin Gleeson was the real Déise star for me, with a phenomenal nine possessions in just 38 minutes on the pitch. These do not include his converted sideline, a second sideline to Dessie Hutchinson which yielded a score, and a lovely chip from another sideline into Hutchinson’s hand which led to Jamie Barron’s first point. Hutchinson, of course, returned the compliment by providing the pass which produced Gleeson’s inspirational point from the sideline early in the second half. In all, Hutchinson scored 1-2 and provided two scoring assists from six second-half possessions.

I also thought that, in this game, Michael Kiely finally announced his arrival at senior level. He only had five plays in the game, but all showed how dangerous he can be. The first ended with him being cynically taken down just outside the large square for a converted free. In my view this should have been a penalty and a black card – if he had not been fouled he would have had a clear shot at goal from point blank range. He was unlucky not to score a goal with his second possession, when again he carried deep into the Tipperary goalmouth but had his shot stopped by the goalie. Kiely was again unlucky with his third play, a shot which came back off the upright. His fourth play was his superb first-time strike for his goal, and his fifth was the long hand-pass which put Dessie Hutchinson in for his goal.

I will finish on my usual bugbear topic, the inability of even top-level hurlers to adjust to wind conditions when shooting for scores. Last Sunday there was a stiff wind blowing across the pitch from the stand towards the open bank. This produced a tendency for shots towards the town goal to veer to the left, and those towards the country goal to go right. Excluding shots for goal which were not wind-affected, there were 14 wide shots in total at the town goal, 12 of which went to the left of the goal. There were nine wide shots at the country goal, of which six went to the right. Waterford alone had nine second-half shots at the town goal, and eight of these went to the left. A bit of advance coaching on wind conditions, or better observation by the players themselves, would have yielded the extra three or four points which would have saved us the frazzled nerves we had to endure in the closing stages of the game.

Waterford team (number of possessions in brackets):

S O’Brien (2); C Gleeson (7), C Prunty (9), S McNulty (10); J Fagan (7), T de Búrca (13), C Lyons (8); C Daly (1), D Lyons (9); N Montgomery (6), P Curran (13), J Prendergast (5); D Hutchinson (7), M Kiely (5), Stephen Bennett (7); A Gleeson (9), J Barron (5), Shane Bennett (1), I Daly (3), P Hogan (2).

These teams don't make sense at times, Tom Monaghan and Cathal Mannion Galway's 2 best players on Saturday not picked while 2 other Galway players are.

Every team gets a knock out game. Two groups of three. Top of group advance to SF, second place gets home QF v 3rd in the other group. 3rd gets away QF v 2nd in other group.

Yeah it’s an absolute pain.

Yet another very disappointing result for one of our underage teams. Surely they’re not a 14pt worse team than Clare? At least they’ve a chance to redeem themselves against Limerick but going by that hammering it’s looking like another defeat on the cards. The most disappointing thing however is our record underage in general the last few years. Results have been by and large piss poor and we seem to lose the vast majority of games. Don’t have the stats at hand, maybe someone like Giveitfong or deiseach might but would be curious to see how many games we actually won at minor and u20/21 championship since we won the u21 AI in 2016. I’d wager the win percentage has been brutally low. So many games we have either thrown away from winning positions or just come out the wrong side of a result by a point or two. You’d wonder if it’s a mental thing.

Someone mentioned above that the talent coming through isn’t looking too great but hopefully that isn’t the case. Realistically you just need 2-3 players from each side that look like they can make it at senior. Not vital to be winning Munsters and AI’s every year (it helps) but constantly losing hardly inspires confidence for lads coming through.

Anyway, best of luck to the u20s against Kerry. Let’s hope the losing streak is ended.

I love McNultys fire and he got 2 very good points but he is not a comfortable man on the ball and he is definately not a natural distributer. But he's so game ,it's hard to the love the fella. He won't let Waterford down.

Can't wait for this match in tbe Gaelic Grounds. Its going to be a cracker under lights.

I see Sean Stack from Care is the referee for the game against Limerick on Saturday night

In answer to Cake Man’s query, Waterford have not won at under-21/under-20 level since 2016. They were robbed by Fergal Horgan when losing by a point to Cork in 2017. In 2018 they lost by three points to Cork having dominated for most of the game before running out of steam towards the end, in a game where poor sideline decisions (and non-decisions) were also very costly (a recurring theme with Waterford under-age teams).

In 2019 a poorly-prepared Waterford team were well beaten by Tipperary. In both 2020 and 2021 Waterford lost, in extra time, games they should have won against Tipperary. This means that, of the six games played since 2016 (including last week’s game), Waterford could have won five and should have won four.

The story with the minors is a bit more mixed. In 2017 a weak team was well beaten by Clare, Cork and Limerick. In 2018, having lost their first game to Clare, Waterford then beat Tipperary and Limerick but, in their final game against a very moderate Cork team that had already been well beaten by Limerick and Tipperary and was out of contention, like last night’s team they failed to turn up and were beaten up a stick. This cost them a place in the Munster final.

In 2019 Waterford drew with Limerick (a game they should have won but in which they were again undermined by bad tactics) and lost to Clare, Cork and Tipperary by an aggregate total of just eight points. This was an extreme example of being competitive without winning any games.   In 2020 Waterford were well beaten by Tipperary but last year turned the scales with a comfortable win. In the Munster final they lost to eventual All-Ireland champions Cork by eleven points, not helped by an insane puckout strategy (if such it could be called) which was maintained from start to finish.

So, in total, since 2016, the minors won three games, drew one and lost ten. Of the latter, they were well beaten in five and  should have won at least one (last week against Tipperary), while twice there were no-shows by teams with ability (Cork in 2018 and last night against Clare).

Tried chrome on I phone same

Saturday is a funny dynamic. The first of possibly three meetings with Limerick and the least important which is also being played on Limerick turf.

Beat them and they will lick their wounds and devise some way of winning the next one. (See peak Kilkenny for what those tactics might be). Lose but put them to the pin if their collar and you might sow some doubts.

I honestly don’t know what the best result for us is except that we don’t get beaten out the door. It’s not a happy hunting ground for us, I can’t remember us ever getting a result there whether it was Limerick, Galway, Clare or Tipperary. And I’m going back 60 years!

Hopefully it is a dry day, I thought last Sunday was the worst of conditions for our style of game. The win gives us a free shot on Saturday, hopefully we get more game time into Barron and Lyons legs and Tadgh gets to sharpen up to his previous levels against the best team in the country. Can’t wait!