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Civil Service - Post Lockdown - Blended Working?

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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Exactly.

    At the time they enforced the HRA hours on the public service, the argument was made that it was either work more hours or take a (third) paycut.

    Now they'll use the same argument in reverse.

    The option was given to the CS to voluntarily revert to pre-HRA hours a couple of years ago (not sure what year exacty) and those who took the option reverted with a further 5% pay cut.

    So they'll argue that reverting to pre-HRA hours now is the equivalent of a 5% pay increase - on top of whatever measly percentage they will offer. I'd put money on it!

    Working 27 minutes less a day won't help meet the increases in the cost of living. A 5% pay increase, would.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    The HRA hours were literally a pay cut - work more hours for the same money. They rolled back literally years of union work in achieving family-friendly (well - friendlier) working policies when people could least afford it, meaning many CS staff had to leave kids with creches and childminders for longer. Which, of course, they were charged for.

    It's brilliant the hours were finally rolled back.

    That doesn't mean we can't also look for pay rises, and if anyone from the DPER side says "but you got your HRA hours back" any union negotiator worth their pay will be able to shut that argument down immediately.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That doesn't mean we can't also look for pay rises, and if anyone from the DPER side says "but you got your HRA hours back" any union negotiator worth their pay will be able to shut that argument down immediately.

    Hopefully! 🤞



  • Registered Users Posts: 18 BlueAW


    Reverting back to these hours is settling when they were taken away so it’s all square now. Therefore, it wouldn’t be solid argument to use during the negotiations against a potential pay rise as this is a new issue.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I just think they'll try to put a spin on it.

    The general public won't see it as a new issue but as an ongoing one.

    Predictably, there are already articles online about how much it will "cost".



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  • Registered Users Posts: 175 ✭✭andydurnin


    Anyone here work in social welfare public office and heard anything about blended working?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 925 ✭✭✭Vologda69


    I work in a large DSP office and we are all still at home. Some go into the office out if choice. We were told we would get notice if any change. Im not on public counter, so our work can be done 100% remotely.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,255 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    That might have some merit if they'd ever offered any financial compensation for the increased hours, which of course they didn't.

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭Shuffl_in


    The EU is asking it's citizens to work from home three days a week...

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61179640



  • Registered Users Posts: 556 ✭✭✭EarWig


    I liked the factual information in this.

    Office return stalls as UK staff cling to flexible working

    https://www.ft.com/content/5ed49b8a-6c69-418c-9a26-7f43a99b1d1f



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Article here: Pilots to test blended work flexi accrual taken from Forsa's latest bulletin 22nd April 2022

    Full Text:

    A civil service arbitration baord has ruled on a disagreement between Fórsa and management on how the accrual of flexitime for those with blended work arrangements should be piloted.

    Management argued that departments and offices should be able to choose from four different ways to pilot flexitime arrangements, including one option where no flexitime accrual was allowed and another where accrual was limited to one day of flexi-leave rather than the standard 1.5 days.

    But the arbitration board ruled that departments and offices should be able to opt for one of only two approaches. One will pilot flexitime accrual for all employees in eligible grades, irrespective of work location. The other will pilot accrual only when staff are working in the office.

    Since the outset of the pandemic, civil servants have been unable to accrue flexitime while working remotely. But Fórsa and other unions argued that flexitime accrual should now be available to staff with remote work arrangements under a new blended work framework launched earlier this month.

    Under the new framework, agreed between Fórsa and the Department of Public Expenditure and reform (DPER), all civil servants will have the right to apply for remote or blended working. If refused, they will be able to appeal.

    The arbitration board, which issued its report earlier this week, said a management proposal that some departments could pilot on the basis that staff with blended work arrangements should have no flexitime accrual “would not offer any additional insights…given that it is the current situation.”

    It said there was no value in a pilot that permitted only one day of flexi accrual as this “has been well rehearsed in recent years.”

    The board noted that both management and unions favoured “the restoration of as comprehensive an approach to flexitime as possible.”

    It added that flexi accrual pilots should operate in all applicable work locations over the coming months, and be concluded by 31st December 2022.

    Read the agreed civil service blended work framework HERE



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The public will buy into it, and the powers that be will spin it that way.

    Sure I've already come across the usual shouting over on After Hours about "any pay increase should be measured and linked to increased performance!", - like we haven't been performing our asses off in the last two years from home - (there was also some stupidity about measuring performance in terms of numbers of passports issued, etc).

    There are going to be a lot of minds blown when it sinks in that pre-HRA working hours will reduce our working hours, and that this is a restoration and not just a reduction - just like our pay restoration was not (in their minds) a restoration but pay increases. Apparantly, inflation doesn't impact on civil and public servants either.

    Personally, I'm going to try and ignore it as much as I can. (I really wish Boards had a block thread feature). It's exhausting reading the same rubbish over and over from people who haven't actually got a clue but think they know it all - e.g. look at the Annual Teachers Threaten To Strike thread, or more accurately, the Annual Teacher Bashing thread. (Disclaimer: I'm not a teacher).

    I can only roll my eyes so many times before it starts to hurt. 🙄 👀

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It came up on the feed on my phone 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle


    Time is very valuable. I’d rather revert to pre Haddington Road hours than have a pay increase, if it was a choice.

    We’ll only end up paying for pay increases in other ways.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,055 ✭✭✭Augme



    I'd rather more annual leave tbh. A short-working day is good, but at the end of the time you still have to spend/waste time going into work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    /sigh

    Folks.

    We're getting our pre-HRA hours back.

    We're also getting a pay rise.

    And we're (mostly) getting to WFH, at least two days a week.

    Sure, mostly it's despite the union(s), not because of them, but hey - progress! Really!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,055 ✭✭✭Augme



    We've no idea what kind of pay raise it will be but I don't hold out much hope for it being any use.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,055 ✭✭✭Augme


    The lazyness of Dper never ceases to amaze me. There seem incapable or either just zero interest in coming up with flexible solutions to any problem.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They really seem to be putting everything back on individual departments to sort out for themselves, instead of coming up with an actual civil service wide policy on anything.

    I know my department is in favour of flexitime accrual for all, irrespective of WFO or WFH. But we can already see from this thread that Depts differ wildly. (Though the vast majority of colleagues I've spoken too about it, would take WFH over flexi accrual).

    I can see a potential probem with recruitment in the future, where people will be reluctant to take up positions /mobility offers, if it means working in less flexible departments.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,586 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    Do people really think there s not going to be a cohort of people working 2 hours flexi extra at home some days (with no extra output except some housework and netflix) and then taking 1.5 days off from working in the office?

    I think the only way it works is if flexi leave can only be used on WFH days (not in-office days), that way it would not lead to any negative impact on rosters for public services etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,174 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    I think there has been more of a move towards giving the individual Departments and Offices a bit more autonomy on these matters.

    Recruitment challenges are already emerging in some of the offices that aren't offering as much (or any) WFH. People like APs who had the ability to take flexi leave also haven't been availing of mobility for fear of losing it if the moved.

    In the period ahead I expect staff to apply for lots more mobility, shorter working year, take career breaks, parental leave etc. It's become quite clear in many cases that the employer only wants to suit themselves the vast majority of the time, and maybe it's no harm either for everyone to be clear about that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,174 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    The major issue here is the challenge of measuring output and performance. I think very few organisations have any decent handle of that.

    By right a manager should be querying why their staff needed to work those extra hours. But I think most managers would be happy enough to let it go to keep their teams happy (so long as the staff were generally reliable and getting on with the job).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle


    Flexi isn’t extra hours really though?

    Most of the staff that avail of it tend to work it up and take it, so it balances itself out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,547 ✭✭✭✭yabadabado


    I'm not sure how they would implement it and oversee it but only being allowed work up flexi time the days you are in the office is what I think they will go with .

    I know some dept's want flexi time completely gone if there is any WFH and other places are pushing for it to be allowed be accured WFH/on site.

    That might be the best balance between the two.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Flexibility works both ways. If I have staff working - from home - until 6:30 or 7 and I can see that they're working (via tickets responded to and being closed, claims being processed, emails coming in, the goods I asked them to procure arriving in, whatever) and I need them to be working as we're busy or have a backlog, then absolutely, those staff should be able to turn around a month later and apply for a day or an afternoon off, when we're not so busy, they have something on, and they have the hours worked up.

    "Will the minister outline the current waiting period for a passport applied for in writing, and make a statement on the matter?"

    "There's currently a two-month wait for a passport right now, partly due to staff not working past 5:45pm, and also being made to take a full one hour fifteen minutes lunchbreak. Even though they're working from home and their kitchen is right there." 🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,547 ✭✭✭✭yabadabado


    That's crazy staff are made take a 1:15 lunch break.

    Most people I know would rarely take more than 30/45 minutes unless they had something in particular they needed to do.


    The dept I'm in we are clocking in/out as normal.We do our 7:24 but don't have set hours,it's flexible without being allowed build up flexi leave .



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Does every Dept use the same flexitime software?

    My Dept uses Clockwise, but I don't know if that can be adapted to recognise when someone is in the office or at home, but there are options for "business absence" and we can clock in / out in multiple buildings as well as on our laptops and online. We've been clocking right through since the pandemic began.

    Could end up with a completely new software package being tendered for...



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