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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,923 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    Looks like the Kremlin has given up any pretence, arrest their own proxies, rule the place directly




  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Usually when someone mentions the wests 4th gen jets vs Russias someone usually starts bringing up but they thrust vectoring and the cobra manoeuvre ,they will hit the breaks and the Americans or others will just fly by ,

    All great in slow and steady preforming in an airshow but not so great when your flying against multiple ship formations with wingmen who cover their leads if you get close enough for an actual dog fight but as you pointed out there's been a shift to bvr engagements when it comes to air combat, where advanced radar and target acquisition is king

    Post edited by Gatling on


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,444 ✭✭✭jmreire


    No spare parts for maintenance, pretty soon, no operational veh's / aircraft / ship's etc.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm hoping it's for more insidious reasons, and that the proxies are turning against their masters... thinking, 'Ukraine looking good to join the EU, I'll have me some of that.'



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    SAM missiles and tanks and artillery perform the same rolls, with less effectiveness. I think western aircraft that prosecute targets exclusively within Ukraine but, not in Russia, would not lead to a nuclear response. They don't have to take out S300/400 systems on Russian territory, theres a sizable portion of Ukraine not within range and f-35s could likely operate in the zones that are.

    I don't think a complete no-fly zone is practical or necessary. Just providing protection in the southern and western areas would be helpful enough.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 665 ✭✭✭goldenmick


    Interesting to read the views of posters on here regarding the respective Irish and Russian embassies.

    I've no wish to become embroiled in the discussion on whether the Irish Embassy in Moscow should be pulled but I will say that Irish people throughout the world have a choice, as do we all. Personally I'd rather lose everything and be somewhere safe than live in Russia permanently in fear of tit-for-tat reprisals. Putin wont respect whether you're married to a Russian or however long you've lived in their country when he next chooses to vent his anger on anyone or anything Western.

    The Russian Embassy at Orwell Road is nothing but a huge spies nest. As others have said, exactly what reason could Russia have that warrants the huge staffing numbers at Orwell Road? And more to the point why does the Irish Government allow this?

    Whilst most foreign embassies go about their normal day to day work they are intended to do, I've absolutely no doubt in my mind that all Russian embassies are nothing but excellent cover for extensive espionage and hubs for plotting future assassinations against Russian dissidents worldwide and other perceived enemies of the Russian state. As we've now clearly seen with our own eyes what a totally depraved nation Russia has become, I think all Russian embassy staff should be immediately kicked out, not only in Ireland but worldwide. They are now a complete pariah.

    Incidentally, the Russian Embassy at Kensington Palace Gardens, London, is another hornets nest located in prime real estate and able to conduct their illicit operations right in the heart of the capital. Their website is nothing but Putin's mouthpiece, full of denial and propaganda. Why we allow them this freedom of speech when they've terminated all of their own free press is disgraceful.





  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    It's quite simple really; you don't defend freedom of speech by censorship.

    Many embassies have counterintelligence staff on the premises, not just Russia. It's pretty much a given. Do you think the Chinese and US and UK don't? Russia is just more blatantly obvious. I'd be quite happy to reduce the Russian embassy staff by a significant number, but keep it open. Or close all of them in the nations of the EU and have one in Brussels to cover all.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,444 ✭✭✭jmreire


    And apparently, it's a job for life....how long that life might be is a different matter though!



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,714 ✭✭✭✭briany


    I very much share your concerns and suspicion that the Russian embassy in Ireland is a spy hub, but if it is very obviously the case, it shouldn't be too difficult for an Irish intelligence agency like the SDU or G2 to collect strong evidence and act on that basis. In spite of what Hollywood has depicted in years gone by, the Russians aren't that slick as to leave no trace, if one decides to go sniffing. If the government acts off of a suspicion, no matter how strong, it's still acting without due process, and to do that validates the sh*tty way the Russians do things in a, "Oh, well if you're doing it, then what's wrong with us doing it, too?" kind of a way.

    However, I think there is a case to be made for expelling Russian diplomats simply on their demonstrable lies about the invasion of Ukraine and refusal to condemn it. For better or worse, that does not appear to be government policy at the moment. Call it craven if you like, and many surely do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 665 ✭✭✭goldenmick



    It's quite simple really; you don't defend freedom of speech by censorship.

    I think you have to earn freedom of speech. If you're not willing to give it to others, then yours likewise should be restricted.


    Many embassies have counterintelligence staff on the premises, not just Russia. It's pretty much a given. Do you think the Chinese and US and UK don't?

    I'm fully aware of that. I wasn't born yesterday. My point was that only Russian embassies would be complicit it assassination plots, poisoning, and actively seeking to undermine Western nations in everything they do.


    Or close all of them in the nations of the EU and have one in Brussels to cover all.

    That's the answer.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,444 ✭✭✭jmreire




  • Registered Users Posts: 665 ✭✭✭goldenmick


    @briany - However, I think there is a case to be made for expelling Russian diplomats simply on their demonstrable lies about the invasion of Ukraine and refusal to condemn it. 


    That, genocide, the UK poisonings and a hundred and one other reasons for expelling them.

    Putin may be totally wrong on most everything, but his view of the West as being weak is pretty much spot on. The more rope we continue to give him, the greater the damage that will ultimately unfold.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭zv2


    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Russia is not the only source of these, it just happens to be the most convenient. Stuff expediency if it means enabling that monstrous pit of Orc sh​its. Cover a small patch of the Sahara with solar panels and use the energy to electrolyze water on the coast to make hydrogen, and turn that into ammonium and it's nitrate, and voila, fertiliser from the sun.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Think you have missed the point being made.

    Nobody responded to the USA using nuclear weapons on Japan because nobody else had nuclear weapons.

    Were any other nuclear powers directly supporting any other country which USA subsequently attacked? Since multiple countries have had nuclear weapons those countries have deliberately avoided getting directly involved in the same wars so as to avoid the potential for nuclear war. That is why you keep hearing about proxy wars between Russia / USSR and the USA where they each support some other tiny countries to fight against each other but without directly doing anything themselves.

    Putin didn't need to make any mention of using nuclear weapons against NATO. Everyone knows he has nuclear weapons and for that reason other nuclear powers are hesitant to get involved... And that is why Putin attacked Ukraine rather than any NATO country which borders Russia because they are essentially also nuclear powers by association.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    "Amazingly considering the odds against them, Ukraine’s airmen have more flyable fighters today than they did in early April, according to U.S. Defense Department spokesman John Kirby.

    Kyiv’s air force has “more operable fighter aircraft than they had two weeks ago,” Kirby told reporters Tuesday.

    Donations of airplanes, and airplane parts, made it possible. “I would just say, without getting into what other nations are providing, that they have received additional platforms and parts to be able to increase their fleet size,” Kirby said."

    We aren't party to all that is going on, and that's a good thing.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I am pretty sure many «Russians» living in the occupied eastern regions in Ukraine have changed their minds seeing Russia showing their true colours.

    Wouldnt it be great if they did the same in occupied territories in Georgia and Moldova as well,all turning on Putin,



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    But that statement was countered quickly by the US and Ukrainians who said they got no aircraft ,only parts and spares for what they already have



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,908 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    There's various truths and mistruths going around


    The only truth is Ukraine are still in the air and Russia don't have air superiority.

    That doesn't occur by not getting parts or aircraft.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Again we could be dealing with the fog of war here as well. A lot of what is going on is not for public consumption yet. It's possible they don't want to give away strategic information that could change the Russians plans.

    I reckon there is a strategy at play here from the Ukrainians and their allies to get the Russians exactly where they need and expect them to be. They know the Russians are desperate for success and that there is a hard time limit of the 9th of may in place.

    I do think planes have been supplied. We may not see in action yet until the bulk of the Russian forces are committed & engaged. I think the Ukrainians will have a plan to win this and with the help of their intel allies inflict massive damage on the committed Russian units.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    But are they ? In the Air we've not seen any footage of the Ukrainan airforce since the "Ghost" seen one of two helicopters and memorial posts for downed pilots, but we've not seen any other aircraft over ukraine,as it stands were seeing more Russian airstrikes than previously



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I think you have to earn freedom of speech. If you're not willing to give it to others, then yours likewise should be restricted.

    Then you quite simply don't understand the concept of freedom of speech and why a culture should promote and defend it. If you censor a viewpoint, no matter how much you disagree with it, or how dangerous you think it is, or indeed how dangerous it might be and do so for current political reasons and current truths you're doing exactly what dictators and autocrats do. You're brooking no dissent from your narative, your truth and no matter how sure you are of that truth, and censorship nearly always means you're not so sure, it will always turn out to be somewhat wrong somewhere.

    Yesterday someone posted a vid from the BBC talking about and playing down the level of Far Right influence in certain areas of Ukrainian society and their military(a position I would largely agree with). Yet for years and right up to last Christmas the same BBC(and many other august outlets, including western governments and the UN) were warning about the influence of the same Far Right in areas of Ukrainian society and military. Yet that has all been subsumed into the needs of the wider conflict stemming from this invasion. A lesser version of putin's own "they're not nazis if they're with us and fighting for what we think is right".

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I think this freedom of speech thing went out the window with troll farms and social media. What we have now isn't really equal freedom of speach because there is a large disparity in volume problem. We do need anti-volume measures to counter state sponsored speech via troll farms. I don't think that is censorship in the conventional sense. The idea you can't have censorship of volume while not compromising freedom of speech I believe is wrong.

    Western freedom of speech is not enabled by allowing foreign hostile states that oppose free speech, from having a disproportionate volume of speech that is weaponised.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    I'm slowly beginning to realise what may be happening here

    The sluggish, just short of proportional, response may be designed to bring Putin's pot slowly up to temperature without triggering a "reach for the nukes" moment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,518 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Interesting analysis from Bloomberg who have spoken to some top officials within the regime anonymously. Seems Putin is hellbent on proceeding with the special operation, even if it cripples the country economically for many years:

    "The president remains confident that the public is behind him, with Russians ready to endure years of sacrifice for his vision of national greatness, they said. With the help of tough capital controls, the ruble has recovered most of its initial losses and while inflation has spiked, economic disruption remains relatively limited so far.

    Putin is determined to push on with the fight, even if the Kremlin has had to reduce its ambitions from a quick, sweeping takeover of much of the country to a grueling battle for the Donbas region in the east. Settling for less would leave Russia hopelessly vulnerable and weak in the face of the threat seen from the U.S. and its allies, according to this view."



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Perhaps there is an arrangement that if a Ukrainian airframe becomes unusable, a pilot can catch a quick ride to the Czech Rep. and fly back with a replacement. That would satisfy a statement that Ukraine has not received any planes while also having more available.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭thomil


    Kunovice Aircraft Repair Plant, Czech Republic - Free courtesy fighter whilst we repair your MiG 😉


    Apologies, needed to get a bit silly for a second with all the horrendous news from Ukraine.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    '... Settling for less would leave Russia hopelessly vulnerable and weak in the face of the threat seen from the U.S. and its allies, according to this view."


    Ah, Puts, luv... that ship has sailed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,059 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    While the cats away, the mice should play. Could we yet see risings elsewhere?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf




This discussion has been closed.
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