Cork GAA Discussion Thread

I would be a traditionalist, and i see history and tradition as being very important. Obviously what worked in the 40's 50's and 70's doesn't work in the modern game. There's been big changes in senior intercounty hurling since 2005, and we just haven't adapted to that changing landscape unfortunately. Periods of success and failure come and go in cycles.

Limerick for example went 45 years without winning an all Ireland, until they got their act together. For a lot of the years between 1973 and 2018, they were the most dysfunctional hurling county in Ireland. Credit where credits due though, they eventually got their act together and are now hurlings market leaders.

What, in God's name I am on about is that between 1968 and 2003 Cork colleges won 22 Harty Cups, with six schools winning. 35 odd years, and almost two thirds of the time the competition was won by Cork schools. Since 2003 they have won twice and it was the same school. Extraordinary change.

I'm not questioning the value of history and tradition. I'm questioning the claim that because of it Cork are judged by different standards. Simply not true. Nobody under 23 would have a clear memory of Cork winning an All Ireland. For most people under 45 they'd have been an occasional force. People will tend to be instructed by what they have experienced. Expectations of Cork has fallen dramatically.

Expectations of Cork have not fallen in Cork, i can assure you of that. All sports teams have their ups and downs. Periods of success and failure, comes and goes in cycles. Manchester United went from 1967 to 1993 without winning a league title. Then they dominated english football for 20 years from 1993 to 2013, and now they are having another barren period with regards to success. Success comes and goes, but that history and tradition never changes. It will always be there.

I explicitly have said that the idea that Cork have a certain expectation is internal to Cork. That's actually my central point. If you had read my posts you'd have seen that. Not sure why you try to compare a privately owned and funded professional sporting organisation with a GAA county.

It would be interesting to have it explained why, in the face of all observable evidence (clubs constantly failing in Munster and seemingly miles behind, years of underage lack of success until the last couple of years, colleges' teams which were previously leading forces now but a memory) expectations have not fallen? Why are expectations the same as when the County was ticking all the boxes at colleges and underage in the late 60s/early 70s? Delusion? Blind faith? Or is there an actual logical reason?

(History and heritage are abstractions. You feel them and you value them and that's fine. But you cannot seriously forward them as an argument for expectations of Cork for 2022.)

Even kitsch auld guff about the Cork man with the "inferiority complex" only holds water when they are winning and seen to be successful. In reality the Cork players look fearful and lacking confidence. When you look at a club like Blackrock, traditionally a mainstay of Cork teams, and its current contribution to the Cork set-up you would wonder if Cork GAA has lost a foothold in the county that it'll never ever get back. Your blind belief in "cycles" of success might be tested in the years ahead.

Cork did win a minor and u21 all Ireland double last year. Kerry footballers Dublin Footballers all have had barren periods. Tipperary hurlers had their barren period from 1971 to 1987 as well. Blackrock won a county title two years ago. We are a county of serious hurling heritage and tradition. At the moment we are down with that heritage and tradition, but we will bounce back with that heritage and tradition. Corks hurling heritage and tradition is something that will exist forever. We are the county of Christy Ring and Teddy McCarthy. We are Cork after all.

The Pussycat Dolls THREAD is that way========)

if you want to contribute to that.

Ah this is a load of bull.

Well we do have 30 all Irelands compared to Limericks 10. You can count i presume, so i think you should be able to get the message there. The expression, writing out cheques that you can't cash springs to mind. Limerick are a great team alright, but form is temporary and class is permanent. Limerick are by far the county with the most tradition though, outside of the sports three most historically successful powerhouses.

If the number of All Irelands was a significant factor this discussion wouldn't be taking place in the first place as Cork wouldn't be enduring this massive drought. You have been unable to directly address any point. I mention the lack of Blackrock players on the Cork panel and you tell me the won the County title a couple of years ago. (that'd be the answer to "Blackrock haven't won a County title in ages") I mention the utter collapse in Cork's colleges' record but you tell me that a Cork school won it a few years back. (that'd be the answer to "Cork schools haven't won a Harty in ages") You are countering points which have not been made.

And seriously "class is permanent".......really, that is scraping the barrel. You are just short of giving us a verse of "Salonika" while drinking a pint of Murphy's. Even if there was an agreed definition of "class" I would repeat my first point i.e. if that actually were true this discussion wouldn't be happening in the first place.

That's the very point everyone here is making but you're ignoring. On the pitch, Cian Lynch doesn't care how many All Ireland Jack lynch won.

The journalists, twitter and board trolls are a different matter, Cork go through bleak periods, people ask what's wrong, structure's broken, first match on Sunday Game. Offaly, Wexford, Clare etc can go through similar spells, nobody bats an eyelid.

On the pitch all 15 players are equal at throw in.

Seems a mass delusion that the successes of the long past and ‘corkness’ will solve the current issues.

Fact is the only way Cork will be close to an all ireland is if somebody knocks out limerick for them. Then they have a small chance. Limerick have their number and it is the worst possible match up for Cork.

Obviously all counties would be underdogs to Limerick but would fancy waterford, kilkenny, galway and tipp to beat limerick before cork do in the championship.

Begs the question - should cork stick to their own style hoping somebody else knocks out limerick or try and change everything to try and compete with them?

I don't think anyone's saying that