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Why is space for cars seen as sacrosanct?

123468

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 950 ✭✭✭Burt Renaults


    Probably the same entitled dickheads who drop their kids to school and park their SUVs in the cycle lanes on both sides of Broadford Rd.

    There's another thing that should be banned - driving children to school in suburban areas with good public transport links.





  • Posts: 2,827 [Deleted User]


    Not a big reveal. The regulars here have tried to make fun of my refusing to reveal which City I live in. You're about the only one that doesn't know that. 3 of the 4 people who thanked your post know that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    It is illegal to park on cycle lanes.

    I don't see how you could make it illegal to give a kid a lift to school.



  • Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭JayPS 2288


    No one suggested making it illegal to give kids a lift to school.

    It should be heavily discouraged. I cycled to school or walked since I was 9 years old in 4th class.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I think the other poster did suggest making it illegal -

    There's another thing that should be banned - driving children to school in suburban areas with good public transport links.

    I'd say leave it up to people to decide for themselves.

    It's better to cycle or walk but maybe a parent is going that way to work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,881 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    It's irrelevant. You could be in the attic of your parents house in an estate just outside Longford, I have no interest of your current location. I politely asked you where in Ireland did you see the signs and you confused things by not answering the question and posting a picture of a sign from Germany. I told you I hadn't a dog in the fight, I was genuinely interested and it was a genuine question.

    If you genuinely do have experience working on traffic management solutions in another country (not holding the HALT/GEHAN sign) your input would be interesting, but this smug obtuse attitude of not answering questions & posting misrepresentative pictures isn't conducive to adult debate.

    You could have told us about the terms regarding the signs in Germany, the weight limits, the time scales, if it's paid for parking etc... But no. You had to play smart and smarmy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,785 ✭✭✭...Ghost...



    Calling bullsh!t on that one. The brake pads on an EV are used just as frequently as the brake pads on an ICE car, as the brakes engage both when regenerative braking is not enough to slow the car promptly enough (harder braking) and just before the car comes to a stop, usually at speeds below 5km/h when regen stops working.

    The big difference is the time the brake pads are engaged, which for an ICE is 100% of the time the brake pedal is pressed and significantly less for an EV. So, the fact that the calipers are exercised just as often on an EV, this would not be a problem regarding seizing.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 803 ✭✭✭machaseh


    Like for myself. I am not allowed to drive but at least I can bike.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Are you suggesting that it's not possible to cycle or walk distances of a few kms?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Yes, I could see that working in some cases.

    I have seen play streets in the UK and they seem to work well.

    The school street could be a non prescriptive intervention that would make everyone happy.

    People dropping off by car could do so in the next street, at the end of the school street or in a nearby car park and their kids could continue safely on foot along with those who walked all the way or cycled.

    I presume provision is made for students with mobility issues.



  • Posts: 2,827 [Deleted User]


    John Rambo you politely asked nothing. I'm not your servant. Please bear that in mind for the future. You suggest I'm unplesaant but you have established a track record as being a nasty piece of work over years in the community and I'm at the stage in my boards.ie journey where I treat posters like you with the contempt you deserve.



  • Posts: 2,827 [Deleted User]



    I use regenerative mode to regenerate power on a descent of a hill over the space of about 1km every day to reclaim the energy which was expended to climb the same hill the evening before. The brake pads on disks are not engaged except where I need to brake sharply or at very, very low speeds.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 807 ✭✭✭CreadanLady


    What was the point really. At the end of the day you will never get rid of this type of inconsiderate parking. There could be someone els eparked there 5 minutes later.

    Becoming an informer is not a good look for you to have in the community either, i hope noone saw you.

    The MFV Creadan Lady is a mussel dredger from Dunmore East.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,881 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    I never said you're unpleasant, but your posts are foolish, smug, obtuse and difficult. Nobody but you is disagreeing with me as you can see.

    If you have experience in traffic management in another jurisdiction your views would be valuable and interesting if you lost the attitude.



  • Posts: 2,827 [Deleted User]


    Nobody except you would think that informing the sub-forum of effective methods of traffic management deployed widely and observed by those licenced to drive in other jurisdictions as an invalid contribution to a discussion on commuting and transport. I am out before AndrewJRenko posts another cartoon of a bed placed in a parking space while omitting to show an equally ridiculous cartoon of a Chaise Longue in an En-Suite.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,249 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Becoming an informer is not a good look for you to have in the community either, i hope noone saw you.

    Not sure if serious



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    I can cycle any distance you want. In fact i did 110 km yesterday.

    My parents however cannot cycle even 100m.

    And my sister cannot cycle around a 4km circle to 2 different schools in different directions with her 4 kids and then to the creche and then to work - twice a day. Just 2 examples.

    Not everyone has the option to cycle. Sometimes its very hard for people who can cycle to understand that there are people who cant.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,942 ✭✭✭growleaves


    People need to get around.

    Notwithstanding totally dishonest attempts to present bicycling as a replacement for automobiles, no alternative to car travel has so far been put forward. Bicycle lanes are mainly used for occasional leisure cycling, they just aren't ever going to become main thoroughfares with hundreds of thousands of 'vehicles'.

    Possible alternatives:

    A comprehensive electric rail network

    Horse-driven vehicles (which is how people got around before the 'horseless carriage' aka 'the car' was invented.)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    This.

    I know when I cycle I dont use the cycle lanes because the people in them are too slow for me. But I understand the beed for them for some people. Every cyclist however, does not use a cycle lane. I use the car when I have to. I use the bike when I can. I like walking when I can. But this country would grind to a halt both socially and economically if all the restrictions on cars tyhat people who are blind to reality would like to impose are imposed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,942 ✭✭✭growleaves


    'Not everyone has the option to cycle'

    This doesn't need to be explained. Everyone understands it already despite what they may say.

    It wouldn't have worked in the 18th and 19th centuries let alone now.

    People of the past travelled by horse before the invention of canals and railways and, later, automobiles.

    These discussions can only go around in circles as long as there are people pretending that bicycling can serve as the main basis for modern transport. It can't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,999 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    The vast majority of people in Ireland who cycle also drive, so it's a bit of a disingenuous statement to make.

    I'd luv to use the bike to eliminate more short car journey's, as an example my local retail/food stores are a few minutes drive/cycle away, however on a bicycle i'd have to cross a 4 lane dual carraigeway, a busy 4 way junction, and bus lanes that people use to take a flier on to get up towards the M50 so not for the faint-hearted...! And that's before you have to find somewhere secure to lock your bike and attach a Fort Knox level bicycle lock and hope your bike is still there after you get back...

    So the attitude appears to be that those drive everywhere see any attempt to make cycling safer and more viable for local journeys as an attack and will fiercely oppose it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Not what im saying at all. By all means make cycling safer and eliminate theft etc, but realize you cant do it by eliminating cars. Cars are needed too. Some in this thread would like to see driving banned, because everyone can cycle wherever they want.

    What they really mean is I only ever cycle to a few places and never go anywhere I need to drive, so everyone should be more like them and make them suffer if they arent. Its a totally selfish and stupid mindset.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,999 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    "no alternative to car travel has so far been put forward"

    So a mixed solution of Bus, tram, rail, cycle and walking definitely isn't an alternative and it's private motor vehicle only?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,942 ✭✭✭growleaves


    We don't have the bus, team and rail networks to replace cars.

    If you re-read my post I suggested a 'comprehensive electric rail network' as an alternative to cars.

    The only stipulation is: it has to exist.

    How many tram lines are there? 2 in Dublin, 0 in the rest of the country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    It's a bit late to be worrying around the country grinding to a halt.


    You don't stop cycling because you get old. You get old because you stop cycling.

    Two different schools? Imagine if the kids in secondary could cycle themselves to school safely, as many of us did in our day? We've scared teenage girls off the road, with more girls driving themselves to school than cycling.

    The Census tells us that many people are using cars for short journeys, <4km, distances that are easily walked or cycled. It's not about making everyone cycle. It's about moving a significant proportion of car journeys onto two wheels.

    People also need to think about their car-centric lifestyles. Maybe people need to make different decisions about schools and work locations, rather than having foot-stomping tantrums that bikes don't work for me, me, me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    We'll get rid of this kind of inconsiderate parking as soon as we make it socially unacceptable. If the person parking knows there is a good chance of one or two people calling them out directly as they enter or leave their car, they will think twice about it.

    'Informer'? Are you 14 years old?

    If you think cycle lanes are for leisure, you obviously haven't spent much time around the Grand Canal cycle track. Pre-Covid, there was three times the amount of traffic on bikes crossing the track on Leeson St Bridge as their was in cars coming over the bridge.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,942 ✭✭✭growleaves


    'You don't stop cycling because you get old. You get old because you stop cycling.'

    Not every elderly person has the capacity for aerobic exercise and sustained concentration. Pointing to examples of elderly people who do have those capacities doesn't change that.

    It's not a point you can really dodge since you obviously know that many elderly people cannot cycle to get around despite whatever you say.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,249 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Bicycle lanes are mainly used for occasional leisure cycling, they just aren't ever going to become main thoroughfares with hundreds of thousands of 'vehicles'.

    what do you mean by 'bike lanes' when you say they're only used for occasional leisure cycling? do you mean bike lanes in dublin, which are clearly used by commuters too, and secondly, so what if it's leisure cycling they're being used for?

    'hundreds of thousands'? the 2019 AADT (average annualised daily traffic) for the M50 - an essentially four lane motorway - was 140k or 150k vehicles.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,999 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Would be nice to have a tram line everywhere but sure it only took 20+ years for the first Luas to appear. As well as it being hideously expensive and massively disruptive..


    the only real solution is a mix of various transport modes... for example you can't cycle/scoot to your local Bus/Luas stop and bring your bike onboard, and only at limited times can you bring a bike on the DART/train... so we do have the network to eliminate all but essential private car journeys into the cities, but that needs to improve a lot more...



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,249 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    re aerobic exercise, cycling is far more efficient and easier on the body than walking. it doesn't need to be 'exercise'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    And there you go again. FFS would you grow up.

    You cant box everyone up into your little blinkered world and go assuming that everyone is as you assume them to be.

    Here are the assumptions that you have just made in reply to my post that are wrong. Assume you are equally wrong when you put other people in your narrow minded boxes. Two of my sisters kids are special needs. One goes to a special school, the other she takes home with her. The older kids are in the same school. Will be different schools next year too.

    My Dad has a condition that if he cycled he would probably die. And he used to cycle all the time before he got that condition. So yes, he got old, even when he cycled.

    So time to grow up and realize everyone has different needs to what you think they do.

    Jesus there is no getting through to some people. As someone said above, its best just to ignore your posts, because they are meaningless fantasy land posts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,999 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    No you still sound like the Private motorist who is "being attacked"

    There's no reason why in city centres like Dublin that we can't elminate all but essential private car journeys.. Do things like remove free parking for Civil servants, increase bus lane coverage and bring in bus lane cameras, higher priority traffic signals for buses. Secure bike parks beside train/luas/bus stops and introduce carriages and buses that can accommodate e scooters and bicycles

    Outside city's of course a private vehicle is going to be more needed, however you still have plenty of able bodied people who will use a motorcar to travel 1km to a local shop due to the lack of safe cycling lanes.

    If we're serious about tackling congestion, climate change/fossil fuel dependency then reducing consumption of Oil needs to happen somehow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,592 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Someone without the ability for sustained concentration shouldn't be driving a car either, though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,942 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Doesn't really change the fact that many elderly people couldn't cycle up a steep hill.

    It's not automatic.

    People were first driven in horse-drawn vehicles in the early 1600s.

    So people in the early modern period used automatic modes of transport but going into the 21st century we - including the elderly - are going to be cycling everywhere..?

    Like I said the people who say bicycles can be the main mode of transport are coming from a position of total dishonesty or delusion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,942 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Yes but they can be driven in a car - unless we phase out cars and say everyone must cycle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    And another one who doesnt understand that other people have different needs to them.

    We need a happy medium for all people to enjoy living in the country. This picking on p[articular sections of society is why nothing ever gets done in this country.

    I have an idea.

    Lets ban all cars for a week.

    Then lets ban all bikes for a week.

    Let the bean counters quantify the effects on the economy after each week.

    Which one will effect us more. I think the answer is obvious.

    I enjoy cycling and I do somewhere between 500 and 1000Km a week. But I need a car too. I am also aware, unlike some people in this threaD, that all people are not the same and dont have the same options or abilities.

    And in your example, that would be the lack of footpaths probably that causes more people to drive a car 1km to a shop, rather than the lack of a cycle lane dont you think. Though i havent seen many drive 1km myself when they could walk it, unless they need to carry a boot load of shopping. In that case though no footpath or cycle lane is going to take the place of the car. You want to deliver their shopping for them to save that trip.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Did you miss this bit? "The Census tells us that many people are using cars for short journeys, <4km, distances that are easily walked or cycled. It's not about making everyone cycle. It's about moving a significant proportion of car journeys onto two wheels."

    eBikes are a game changer for people who need a little extra oomph for climbing hills or going that slight extra distance. Cargo bikes and trikes are great for people who need a little extra help with balance (see tweet quoted above).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,592 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Which nobody is proposing and isn't going to happen.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Reason is just lost in your little world. I give up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    They can be 'driven' in a bike too:


    Or we could just skip the drama, move on from the 'we can't ban cars' strawman, and start designing facilities and services that will enable many people to switch from cars to bikes, particularly for the large numbers of short journeys currently done by car.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,249 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Doesn't really change the fact that many elderly people couldn't cycle up a steep hill.

    Most elderly people don't live near steep hills. But why does this always come back to some belief that the elderly will be sacrificed on the altar of cycling? Saying there's far to much space dedicated to cars in Ireland is not the same as 'we want to trap the elderly in their homes'. We can account for the needs of the infirm while also reducing the amount of public space car infrastructure takes up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,592 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The use of the elderly, infirm and disabled to justify doing nothing and hence not impact on the almost always not elderly, not infirm and not disabled person who wants to keep using their car for short trips is basically the most common single argument used.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,942 ✭✭✭growleaves


    'eBikes are a game changer for people who need a little extra oomph for climbing hills or going that slight extra distance. Cargo bikes and trikes are great for people who need a little extra help with balance (see tweet quoted above).'

    I don't think you understand what happens to a person when they become elderly. Many elderly deaths occur from a fall when someone is unsteady on their feet, as their ability to balance overall is much diminished as muscles weaken with age. It would be cruel to ask many older people to navigate a bicycle on a road.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,492 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Did you read the bit about trikes and cargo bikes (which are close to impossible to fall off)?

    Regardless, no-one is asking or telling older people to use a bike. Some people ARE trying to create conditions where older people people CAN use a bike safely on the road, as they often do abroad, and as they used to do in Ireland up to fairly recently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,256 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    I hope these elderly people go can’t “concentrate” are not driving?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,249 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    I don't think you understand what happens to a person when they become elderly. Many elderly deaths occur from a fall when someone is unsteady on their feet, as their ability to balance overall is much diminished as muscles weaken with age. It would be cruel to ask many older people to navigate a bicycle on a road.

    i suspect most of those elderly people don't drive either, though. yes, they can be driven places, but again, no one is banning driving.

    most people of my parents generation (mid 70s) are still well capable of cycling a bike. loads of them are able to play golf, certainly.

    and we have the ironic situation that were people able to cycle without a second thought, many people might have been able to stave off physical infirmity in the first place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,256 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    Not sure about no.4 as I alway forget something!..only this morning i forgot my house key! :)

    http://www.ahandtoholdsd.com/10-benefits-of-bike-riding-for-seniors/



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,534 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Every elderly person I've ever met lives on a steep hill. And their doctor that they visit every day lives on an entirely separate steep hill.

    You clearly don't know any elderly people.



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