I feel stifled and like a failure

TheGlossy · 20-04-2022 9:51pm #1

Hi all,

I have been feeling extremely stifled and defeated in the last couple of weeks. It all started in 2021 when I worked 10-12 hours a day including some weekends. My workload kept getting worse and worse with demands right, left and centre. By Christmas, I was absolutely exhausted and burned out. I took the week leading to Christmas off which was meant to finally allow me to rest. However, on my first day back to work between Christmas and NY, my dad passed away and my life took a turn for the worst.

In addition to the bereavement, I have to support my family with the estate paperwork which is incredibly consuming as they live overseas and I'm trying to coordinate everything remotely. My family is struggling financially at the moment (until the insurance comes in), so I find myself having to chip in.

I have a very very strained relationship with my mother and we were estranged for 6 years. We reconnected over my dad's passing (against my will, frankly), but it has been me acting like the family therapist, accountant, administrative assistant more than anything else. My mother is not providing me any emotional support whatsoever. Last time, I told her I was tired because of everything that's going on, her response was: "Just letting you know, my friend is coming over, in case I need to cut you off at some point" and she ignored what I said. When I politely told her I didn't appreciate me trying to open up and her having such response, she burst into tears saying she can't get over my dad's death. She went as far as telling me I'm now responsible for the household. She has never worked a day in her life and was fully dependent on my dad, so now she's taking the passive seat again.

To put things in context - I have a 25 year old brother who has been no help at all during this ordeal. He was been without a job for 4 months and is not doing anything except play video games all night and sleep all day. He's not helped with the paperwork at all. I have two sisters (18, 20). One of them is doing her leaving cert at the moment, so I want her to focus on that. My other sister is in college and has been a great help with the paperwork and even helps my mother a bit financially.

My dad left some debts behind (not a lot) and I managed to arrange a payment plan, but my mother has now requested me to pay the first instalment despite asking for the payment plan.

I'm in my early thirties and the amount of stress from work is already starting to have a severe effect on me. Everyone is throwing their demands at me at work, acting like I'm their personal assistant, setting unreasonable last-minute deadlines to the point where I can't keep up anymore. This, in addition to my family which has been fully reliant on me to do everything for them instead of acting like a team. I really feel as though I'm at wits end with everything and everyone.

I'm stressed about performing at work. I'm stressed about sorting out my dad's estate which is incredibly slow and causing a financial strain on my family which is eventually going to start relying on me financially which will lead to me stressing out about finances. I have my own life to pay for. All this is causing me so much stress to the point where I have constant chest pains and headaches. It is too much and I feel I'm burning the candles at both end. The insurance is taking months. It's getting both frustrating and stressful as it getting finalized is the only way for me to see the light at the end of the tunnel. It's almost been 4 months since my dad died and no sign of things getting on track.

(Before anyone asks why there is not executor involved - my family lives in another country where the principle of "executor" isn't really a common thing and you only have to involve a notary / lawyer if the estate is above a certain threshold, which isn't my dad's case. He only had cash in the bank, a retirement plan and the mortgage with my mom being the co-borrower. He had no will).

Any guidance on how to manoeuvre this situation would be appreciated.

Alkers · 20-04-2022 9:56pm

Can you look for a different job?

SunnySundays · 20-04-2022 10:00pm

Sorry about your dad's passing.

I think you need to get tough on boundaries before you burn out.

1. Your job, why 10-12 hour days, are tou working more than 40 hours, paid or salaried etc. If doing extra for free stop! Schedule annual leave etc. If you can look for a new job, you need better balance

2. Father's affairs- give yourself a timeline, say 2 hours Saturday morning to deal with it and stick to it insofar as possible

3. Financial contributions - you aren't obligated to pay but if you want to contribute set a limit you can afford and don't excess it

4. You time - schedule this could be as simple as 2 evenings a week you do nothing that isn't your first choice. Watch tv, exercise, meet friend's whatever but just your time to look after you

5. Your mother - you were estranged for a reason & probably good one. She won't change. Do the bear essential only. She doesn't go out of her way for you, don't for her

TheGlossy · 20-04-2022 10:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118954178#Comment_118954178

I would and I have been, but my CV is getting rejected from every angle.

However, in the state I'm in, I'm not sure adding another layer of complication (i.e. starting a new job, in a new company) is going to do me any good because then I will have the stress of passing my probation and performing even more so than I do now in my 2.5 year job. You need to be at the top of your game when starting a new job and right now, I wouldn't even know how to sell myself during an interview. I wouldn't be a good asset to a new employer. It might add even more stress on me actually because I know how to do my current job with my eyes closed so even though it's long hours and stressful, I have that "security blanket" of knowing how to do my job and being good at it.

jolivmmx · 20-04-2022 10:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058242635/i-feel-stifled-and-like-a-failure

Wow! I am sorry that you are going through so much!

I wouldn’t make any radical life decisions at the moment. It sounds like you are under immense stress! This can cloud your vision.

You need to go and see your GP first. Talking with a professional will help. Also, work may offer an employee assistance programme, with free counselling. Finally, there are some bereavement groups around.

Sort out the basics, which are key.

Sleep: 7-9 hours, without fail

Eat: Three nutritious meals per day

Exercise: Even a short walk after work

Write down lists and tackle the stuff one by one. Divide it into Must Do, Should Do, Optional To Do. Go through them on this basis. But be gentle with yourself. You can only do so much. Recognise your limitations and don’t flog yourself for them.

Now more than ever you need support. Whether it’s a friend, partner, or housemate, people want to help. Let them know that you are having a tough time. The kindness of people can be overwhelming.

Finally, you need to mount your boundaries with your family and protect yourself emotionally. To help them, you have to help yourself.

Akrasia · 20-04-2022 10:12pm

It sounds like an absolute nightmare

If your employer was reasonable they would understand if you had to take some time to organise your family affairs.

You should also be able to get a GP to certify you as sick due to stress and or anxiety.

There is absolutely no shame in that. If you have enough PRSI contributions you should get illness benefit which will give you space to breath and the time to properly grieve for your father without a high pressure job eating away at you.

Nobody in Ireland is expected to routinely work 10 plus hours a day including weekends and even without your bereavement this would give you legitimate grounds to lodge a complaint against your employer in the WRC

riclad · 21-04-2022 1:25am

I think you should talk or email the working members of your family asking have they any plan to share the costs of the paying the bills until the estate is settled and insurance policy paid out. It's important to hold onto all bills documents receipts until the estate is settled as you don't know exactly what you may need in the future there may need to be so kind of new payment plan in regard to the mortgage

I agree I don't think you could change your job at this point maybe you should ask your boss to reduce your overtime hours I had to act to close down one bank account for probate, I found it stressful Re getting all the documents from relatives in 3 different country's it took a few months to get it done and this was for a single bank account you should go easy on your mother as she is probably very stressed and she needs you to take over administering the bills

It sounds like the insurance will mostly cover the bills but it will take months to get it paid out so you may have to pay bills for the immediate future along with your sister

if you look on the forum askaboutmoney ie there's sections there to do with finance insurance probate etc which you can use to get more expert advice I'm not a finance expert but maybe you should tell the mortgage company your father passed away and the estate is being dealt with if they don't know if you arranged a temporary payment plan I think you and your sister will have to pay it for the moment

It's very important get some exercise make sure you are on a healthy diet get 8 hours sleep i don't understand working 10 hours weekends etc but I understand some people have to deal with emails etc and I don't work for any company or do admin work so I can't give advice on that

Even. In 6 months time There'll have to be someone in charge of admin paying bills on time whether it's you or your sister even after the estate is complete eg bank account closed insurance paid out your mother may be eligible for a pension or some temporary welfare payment maybe your sister could look into this since I presume she has no income right now

Hannibal_Smith · 21-04-2022 7:06am

Of course you feel stifled that's a lot to feel responsible for. You need to learn to say no, or at least draw a line some where. I would guess that's why there is a common theme in your life of people overloading you with work, because they know you will say yes and take it on.

From your work to your family, you do not and should not have to do everything. It is coming at the cost of your own mental health.

It's OK to set limits with people. It's not possible for one person to do everything. At the end of the day everyone else is setting limits with you, so be a little selfish here.

Regarding the money you are paying to family, have you any arrangement for how you're going to get this money back? Have you even thought about getting it back? I would put a stop to that ASAP and if people are in need of money and need the money from the estate urgently, then let them take over dealing with it.

As for your mother - she's not the supporting kind by the sounds of things. Going to her for support is only making your feel more hurt. Just don't go to her.

Jequ0n · 21-04-2022 7:16am

OP, this (co)dependency will continue as long as you are letting it happen. It sounds like you have realised that you will crash if you are continuing the way you are going, which is good.

Your mother needs to get her **** together, so does your brother. As stated above neither have any incentive to change out of their roles and take on an active part because they haven’t had to. Delegate tasks to them and do not step in to help out. You seem convinced that your mother is helpless and won’t be able to things for herself, but you’d be surprised how well she will be able to operate if she wants to.

Don’t fall for the weepy victim ruse she puts on: you have all lost someone and her grief does not outshine yours or your siblings. If she and your bother are struggling they need to seek medical help themselves, it’s not difficult. It’s not your job to provide for them now, it’s their own responsibility.

Make a list of things that you feel you can continue to help with, and also list items that they can do themselves. You need to delegate urgently before you run out of steam. It’s a bit like the safety instructions on a plane: you need to put on your own oxygen mask before you attempt to help others.

Best of luck.

21-04-2022 7:31am

Sorry to hear of your troubles. Sunny gave great advice.

I'd like to add, make sure (this may sound easier said than done right now) to get proper sleep. Without this your mind can't reset/heal and the feelings you describe seem to multiply.

You definitely need to set boundaries at work and at home. Don't let anyone emotionally blackmail you into anything. As for financial support, only what you can afford short term.

You are not your dad. Nobody should expect you to fill his boots.

Sorry again for your loss.

Goodigal · 21-04-2022 12:25pm

You have gotten some great advice here OP, but just say you are not a failure. You are doing the very best you can in every aspect of your life right now. And it is ok to ask for help, and it's ok to say no. Maybe you haven't even had time to grieve your dad yet with everything landed onto you.

Be kind to yourself. Ask for help. You're only human. Good luck, you deserve it.

TheGlossy · 21-04-2022 7:37pm

Thank you for the kind responses, everyone. I really appreciate it.

I unfortunately do not have close friends or a partner to discuss any of this with. I wish I could go to therapy to have someone to speak to, but therapy is expensive and I need to protect myself financially first.

I don't want to go easy on my mother because she is a narcissist. I won't go into the details, but my upbringing with her was pretty horrific and I'm still traumatized to this day. Being around her or even talking to her makes me so tense, it creates a physical reaction in me. She shows no appreciation for all I'm doing and all she does is complain. She thinks her pain is greater than everyone else's.

My mother has a small financial assistance of roughly €430 at the moment, but it all goes into the mortgage. My dad had a mortgage protection, but the insurer is taking ages to finalize the application. If it comes through, the mortgage will be fully covered. She will also get my dad's retirement in a few months + her own retirement. It's not like she will remain without any income forever, but in the interim period, it is very stressful for me to have to deal with this on top of me not getting any emotional support from anyone. While I feel it's my duty to help, I also feel taken advantage of.

Jequ0n · 21-04-2022 8:04pm

I also highly doubt that you will be reimbursed for the instalment you already paid. You can of course try to set up an official repayment plan but I guess you know how successful that will end.

Your mother is one issue and as I said above she is not your responsibility. Your siblings could likewise contribute, there is nothing stopping them from doing so. I appreciate your sister is but there is no excuse why your brother can’t.

You don’t need an excuse to turn down the financial and emotional support: you can’t afford it long term, and that’s enough of a reason. Sounds like you have given more than enough at this stage.

TheGlossy · 21-04-2022 8:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118958218#Comment_118958218

I won't get reimbursement for the instalment I just paid. That's for certain I didn't even get as much as a "thank you", let alone a reimbursement. My mother will got ballistic if I do ask for it because she'll ask me how dare I ask her for reimbursement when she's at her lowest. I wouldn't ask for reimbursement now anyways, but I won't get anything even if I ask.

I've decided to go silent on money matters moving forward unless it's to update them on the insurance and retirement applications. I won't ask how they're coping financially because if I do, I will be reeled into absorbing more expenses or debts, which I don't want to. It may be harsh, but me asking about how they're doing financially will just open the door to me having to absorb more. I'm just going to focus on the paperwork moving forward.

My brother has no excuse at all. He is 25, refusing to help with the paperwork and claiming he is in too much grief to do anything other than sleeping all day and playing video games all night. It has been 4 months of this. I try to cut him some slack because he went through a really really rough patch right before my dad died (set-up a start up and which fell apart he got wrongly accused of something he didn't do and ended up with legal troubles and lost all the money he invested in it), then he watched my dad die in front of him. It is difficult, I can acknowledge he is emotionally battered. However, it does not justify not helping at all. My brother bursts into tears every single time I say something, so at this point, the whole family is completely chaotic and I don't have the bandwidth to deal with this. I'm not the parent and I never chose to be responsible for 4 adults. It's unreasonable.

If I keep paying for everything, they will all get complacent and become co-dependent on me. I have to set boundaries to avoid creating a vicious cycle of co-dependence. They need to fend for themselves.

Hannibal_Smith · 21-04-2022 8:28pm

While I feel it's my duty to help, I also feel taken advantage of.

It's one thing helping. Its another thing spearheading it all which is what it sounds like you're being asked to do.

Getting yourself support is a priority. Make an appointment with your gp and see about what can be worked out.

In the meantime, you're not a failure just learn to say no when you're being overloaded. It's perfectly reasonable.

TheGlossy · 21-04-2022 8:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118958331#Comment_118958331

I am spearheading the whole thing because my mom told me it was my responsibility. I feel it is my duty to an extent, but because no one else in the family wants to help (aside from my sister) because my mother keeps telling everyone she solely relies on me, no one is lifting a finger. I wanted us to face this as a team, a family unit. Not one person trying to keep a chaos organized.

When I told her it was unreasonable to expect me to be everything for everyone, she burst into tears. I told her I'm doing the best I can and she said regardless, it won't replace my father's presence and spirit (I understand her pain, but it has no relevance to what I was trying to express). I'm not trying to replace my dad's spirit or character - what an odd thing to think. She's inflicting stress on me by saying I'm fully responsible for her household (word for word) then she corners me saying I can't replace my dad's spirit around the house.

It's wrecking my head and I can't even think straight in my own personal life. I'm really worried I'm going to start making reckless decisions on an emotional impulse.

The GP I went to 4 weeks after my dad died told me I needed pills. I don't need pills to treat grief and work/estate stress. Some GPs out there think pills are the solution to everything.

SuperBowserWorld · 21-04-2022 8:40pm

God, it sounds like you are really under the hammer. Don't beat yourself up over anything. And take time out just to do nothing. Outside, nature. It's a beautiful time of the year. Make a long term plan for yourself.

Jequ0n · 21-04-2022 8:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118958286#Comment_118958286

That sounds like a good plan, but rest assured that she will put on the pressure and water works when she wants or needs more. It might still get to you despite your knowing how she operates.

Best of luck. Place yourself first because nobody else will.

fits · 21-04-2022 8:53pm

The months after a bereavement are tough. But it will pass. I think it might be good to talk to work and see about reducing your workload.

riclad · 21-04-2022 9:03pm

This is a temporary situation ,it,,ll get better ,i presume when you mention retirement you mean pension ,so basically you are paying some bills while you deal with paperwork ,closing down the bank account,waiting for the insurance policy to come through .you are helping your mother but you are also helping your family by keeping the family home secure for the future . my experience of dealing with probate is all you can do is all you can do is send documents to the bank and insurance company, legal rep,etc email or phone them maybe once every few weeks to make sure everything is on track .Keep a record of all documents sent and recieved .If you do not do it another family member will have to do it. i was in a similar situation in that i felt i had to provide financial support for a close relative

while various financial transactions, were being processed as she was older than me, on a low income and she still had bills ,rent, etc to pay while the finances bank account, etc were being activated . i think you are doing this for your whole family not just one person.

TheGlossy · 21-04-2022 9:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118958544#Comment_118958544

You summed it up pretty well. That's exactly what's happening.

My mom is on very low income, but she is the co-borrower on the mortgage, so she has no other option but to pay at the moment until the insurance money comes in. Then if you add the tax debt my dad left behind, it is a lot of stress on them and I was trying to alleviate that by arranging the payment plan for the tax debt and absorbing the first instalment all while following up on all processes.

It is a lot of stress because these processes are extremely long and my mother is not a patient woman, she keeps asking why everything is taking so long and complaining. I understand her frustration, but I wish I had a good support unit to face this even if I absorb it all alone.

Xidu · 21-04-2022 9:10pm

OP, so sorry to hear you are going through so much. I had a tough few years in my early 20s running between jobs and helping 2 sisters on financially to finish school. Here’s my suggestions:

you need to talk to your manager about your workload. Tell your manager about your family situation also, as there’s a type of leave called stress leave, it can be work or non-work related. Normally you will get paid for 4month stress leave I think. Of course only leave that to the last.
tell your manager that you need help to cut down work hours to 8hrs as you have so much to deal at home now.
i wouldn’t think your mom is good at helping or understand your feelings sounds like she relys on your dad so much and she can’t cope.
chat w your friends,
set up hrs that you plan to work on paper documents, ask your brother n sister to help on that, delegating some simple jobs to them.
finance part, I think when your sister get a job it will get better. And once you get the insurance or your dad’ pension.

Hannibal_Smith · 21-04-2022 9:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118958381#Comment_118958381

Your mother is wrong. As you know it's not your responsibility to take it all on. She is manipulating you to save herself the workload, or because she can't do it herself. OK, she is a grieving widow, but if you have any 'responsibility' here - it's to help not to be fully responsible. Divide the work out between you all - one person take x amount of people/banks that have to be followed up with so one person isn't doing it all. If others aren't pulling their weight it's on them, not you - don't take on what they're not doing.

It works for your mother to have you feel like you are responsible and I would bet she's saying you can't replace your dad so that you'll put in the extra effort - a reverse psychology attempt. You are not your dad, you don't have to be your dad , all you have to do is your best which you are excelling at. She's even telling you she's asked the friend to help as a way for you to fight for your place - she needs you more than you need her. I would tell her you can help but you can't do it all and suggest everyone take on their bit and that's it.

Then go back to your GP and tell them tablets are not what you're after. Ask can they recommend a counsellor or another path, speak up for what you need. If the GP can't help you there is a thread here with help on how to find a counsellor. It's time to look after yourself.

Big Bag of Chips · 21-04-2022 9:59pm

I'll admit to not knowing much about mortgage repayments and Bereavement but what would happen if your mother didn't pay? If she couldn't/can't afford it after the death of her husband? If you didn't exist to bail her out? There are people in such situations. What happens with them? It is not your responsibility to pay your mam's mortgage until the insurance is settled. You are not named on it. If your mam can't afford it then that's for the mortgage company to sort out with her. Have you spoken to a solicitor regarding these payments? Are they necessary? If so, and your mother can't afford them, and your brother can't afford them, and you can't afford them, then what is the procedure?

Also with regards work. The more you do, the more you'll be given. As someone above mentioned you need to learn to say no. I'm sure others do. Other people aren't putting in 10-12 hour days, plus weekends. Stick to your contracted work hours. Go to your manager and ask them what they want you to prioritise, and what do they want you to leave aside. Start saying "I can't get to that this week". You won't be able to immediately change all these habits as they are inbuilt in you. But start small. Start saying "I can't". "I can't stay late this evening". "I can't take that on at the moment". "I can't work this weekend". "I can't call over today".

The stress and pressure you are under is palpable from your posts. Something is going to snap if you don't make changes soon. Small changes. "I can't today".

Tork · 21-04-2022 10:04pm

OP, I don't have anything new to add to the great advice you've been given up-thread. I just felt I had to reply to say you are far from a failure. You're coming across to me as a kind, responsible, capable human being who has been dealt a bum hand when it comes to family members. If you are doing anything wrong at all, it's that you're allowing other people walk over you. Saying No is one of the hardest things to do if you're a people pleaser or somebody who struggles with boundaries. I get the impression that that's what is happening to you in work and in your family. The good news is that you can put a stop to that and I think you can. I've heard of a saying that goes "Put your own oxygen mask on first" and it's something I cannot emphasise enough for you. Please put yourself first and take steps to ease back on the pressure on yourself. You'll find that when you say No or don't treat everything that comes your way as urgent, the world will keep turning.

Big Bag of Chips · 21-04-2022 10:18pm

the world will keep turning.

This. This by 1000. No matter what, the world will keep turning. If you pile enormous pressure on yourself, or if you decide to say no, the world will keep turning. If you collapse tomorrow and end up in hospital the world will keep turning. Things will get sorted out when they get sorted out and you putting yourself under stress and pressure isn't going to make other people move their portion of the work along quicker.

Be a bit selfish. It's allowed. You'll notice other people around you are and they seem to get on just fine.

HildaOgdenx · 21-04-2022 10:48pm

I remember your thread about the loss of your dad and how difficult work is. I'm so sorry that you have this additional stress on you. Great advice upthread, I won't add any more to that.

I think you would benefit from being able to talk all of this out. I know you have mentioned that cost is an issue. There is low cost counselling available. E.g, I know someone who attended counselling with PCI College, and found it very helpful.

https://www.pcicollege.ie/counselling-service/lowcostcounselling

Tork · 21-04-2022 11:29pm

I can't advise you specifically about the legal end of things, especially your mortgage. I get the feeling you're not in full possession of the facts and may be making the wrong decisions. Have you sought impartial advice on this?

The one thing I have learned from life in general is that there can be great value to be had in digging your heels in and saying "No" "I can't", "Not now" or "I can give you X and Y but not Z". There will always be people out there only too eager to take advantage of those who are too obliging. You get no thanks for being helpful.

In work, if there is too much coming your way, that shouldn't be your problem. It's your manager's problem to sort. It's up to them to delegate work better, reorganise things or take on new staff. I can tell you from years of experience that taking on extra work rarely turns into a promotion or extra cash in your pocket.

TheGlossy · 21-04-2022 11:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118959079#Comment_118959079

What do you mean the wrong decisions? Reading this type of comment really triggers more anxiety in me. Sorry, not to be rude, I know you're trying to help.

Impartial advice on the mortgage? I went through all the contracts my dad left behind before initiating anything. There isn't really much to decide on:

He had a mortgage protection insurance which would cover the mortgage at 100% in case he died. He passed away, I went to the bank to discuss whether the process. They took a look at the file and said all OK to initiate the claim. The claim is now being processed by the insurer. I had a thorough read through the mortgage contract. Both my parents are borrowers but only my dad was insured in case of death.
My family lives in another European country where if your partner dies, you can put in an application to claim a certain % of their pension which I did.
He had cash in the bank which my mother had access to and was availing of until it ran out.
He had a life insurance policy and my mother is the only beneficiary on this, so we just initiated the process with the insurer.

Most people over there don't hire a lawyer or a notary unless they have a large estate. I might have to discuss with the bank what options we have in case the insurance doesn't come in this month. I was originally told it would take 2-4 weeks for the insurance to come through and it's been 2 months because they have a huge backlog. I'm just going through a basic process that people I already know went through without an external advisor (particularly the mortgage bit). I had a thorough read on various platforms before initiating anything. I've a legal and financial background myself, so I don't have my head completely in the sand either, but if things remain stuck, I will seek an external party certainly (which would be on my dime, since they can't afford it).

I agree on the work point though - going above and beyond just leads to you getting more work. Nothing more.

Tork · 22-04-2022 12:03am

I was only asking the question - there was no malice intended. There's no need to bite my head off. What I was getting at was that maybe you aren't privy to all the information needed and that you could be doing things somewhat differently. The question was asked up-thread about what families with nobody to pay the mortgage do? None of us knows the ins and outs of the laws where you live, so please don't get upset if we're getting this wrong. Let's just agree that you're doing everything right and that it's the work part that is more urgent.

TheGlossy · 22-04-2022 12:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118959135#Comment_118959135

I wasn't biting your head off. Apologies if it came across that way.

I think my anxiety is also causing me to doubt every single thing I'm doing whether it's with this or at work and I've become very sensitive. I'm always on edge.

I'm sure there is some information I'm not privy to. I was given access to all the contracts my dad left behind. I have tried to seek help on local financial forums (a bit like boards.ie) to see if there is any other option I'm not thinking of at the moment and I never got a single response on any of those forums.

I spoke to both the insurer and the bank and they said we'll have to absorb the mortgage in the interim period until the mortgage protection money comes in. My mom is the co-borrower on the mortgage. From a legal standpoint, she is as much liable. All the mortgage payments have been debited from her account since day 1 15 years ago.

I'll try to investigate if there's another interim option for them out there, we'll see if I can find something.

airy fairy · 22-04-2022 12:34am

Honestly, I think you should step away. Once the financial aspect has wheels in motion, there's little else you can do. The mortgage repayments will sort themselves out even if your mother defaults in the next repayment, she has already screwed you in that respect by spending your father's remaining bank account. I'm not even sure this is iegal in the EU. The bank won't reposses or go after your family for a missed repayment. Let it go.

Use the money that you were intending to send to your family for therapy for yourself. You need to seek out a good grief counselor. And soon. Call a meeting with your manager. Reduce your hours if possible.

Your brother has rode you long enough. We all go through traumas. I watched my father go grey and choke in front of me as he died, I still had to carry on and get up for my kids every day since. He needs to get his big pants on and get a job. You are facilitating the house of them by paying their bills. They will continue to expect this. And for the time you do this, they'll take it all.

Stop supporting them. Tell them inflation and costs and rent etc are skyrocketing here, you can't do it anymore. You're mother's rants will be nothing new by the sounds of it. The others will realise it too. Over time.

You're not in good headspace, so please seek that help. Stop them draining you.

riclad · 22-04-2022 2:04am

I'm not a finance expert but it might be possible to ask the bank to reduce the payments on the mortgage eg a loan payment is made up of capital plus interest, eg reduce the capital part of the monthly payment considering that the loan is covered by an insurance policy I'm assuming the mortgage is from an Irish bank I think most banks have a dept that deals with probate issues it maybe more complex seeing as its a joint mortgage and your mother is still responsible to pay it

When my parents passed away my sister dealt with all the finance matters and there was no mortgage to deal with so that made it simple

It sounds like you know exactly what you are doing it's just hard to cope with it all and also pay the bills and work long hours at the same time it took me about 3 months to close down 1 bank account but I had to collect all the documents and send forms out to relatives in different country's and get them signed and wait to recieve them back by post the bank was very kind positive and they gave me all the info advice I needed and a list of all the documents I would need

one of my relatives works in the insurance industry but I admit I have no idea how long it takes to process a mortgage insurance claim

maybe you could email them in a week and ask em do they know how long approximately, it will take to process the claim application

I'd advise you to hold onto all bills and receipts that you pay just in case you may need them in the future I understand its difficult to deal with officials and documents from other country. I have experience with relatives who are older who don't have any knowledge of financial matters or the length of time it takes to process insurance forms

Big Bag of Chips · 22-04-2022 6:28am

Of course the mortgage company are going tok tell you to keep paying the mortgage. The question is, what can they do if you don't? If your mother didn't have you to pay it, it wouldn't be paid. And the mortgage company would have procedures in place to allow for that. I'm sure it is something that happens regularly.

My friend was going through a complicated separation from her husband when he died. Before he died she was dealing with the bank with regards to her taking over the full mortgage. She alone had been paying the mortgage for a couple of years up to that point. It wasn't finalised when he died. His name was still on it, and the insurance was in place. The solicitor she was using for the separation advised her to not pay another penny off the mortgage until it was sorted out.

Hannibal_Smith · 22-04-2022 6:44am

Nothing is or should be on your dime OP. Generally when someone dies and money is paid out for any reasonable expenses relating to their death the person paying those reasonable expenses keeps the receipts and they are reimbursed from the estate. So if a solicitor or third party becomes involved, nobody should be out of pocket. But come to an agreement on it, don't just assume something will be repaid.

That said there are 3 elements left outstanding - mortgage protection, pension and life assurance. All three applications to been made and are being processed by the relevant institutions. No more is to be done but follow up calls to keep the momentum going and your mother is well capable of that I'm sure.

A 4 month delay on mortgage protection seems a lot mind you. I'd be making those calls a priority.

TheGlossy · 22-04-2022 7:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118959204#Comment_118959204

Thank you for the advice.

The mortgage insurer is very unclear. I was originally given a time frame of 2-4 weeks when we submitted the claim at first. Then, I rang after 4 weeks and was told it would get finalized by the end of April. I rang them again early this week and I was told it would take another month an a half. They confirmed they have all the supporting documents needed. Every single time I ring, it is a different time frame which is what is causing the frustration.

Yeah, I'm thinking about reducing the monthly repayments if the insurance doesn't come through in May. I immediately didn't think of it when we initiated the insurance claim because I was told it would take 2-4 weeks to process the claim so there was no need for it at the time. We're into month 4 now, so it may be necessary. I'm not so sure the bank will allow for a reduction of monthly repayments in the interim period when there's already an insurance claim ongoing, but it is certainly one of the last options. I need to check that with them.

The mortgage is not from an Irish bank. My family lives overseas.

I agree, it is very stressful when you have to do everything remotely. I will hold on to all the bills etc.

TheGlossy · 22-04-2022 8:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118959307#Comment_118959307

Was your friend listed a co-borrower on that mortgage?

Mother is the co-borrower on the mortgage. It would be a different story if my dad was the sole borrower and left this debt behind after his death, at that point, we would have sought legal advice not to pay it, but my mom's name is on the mortgage contract. She's as much liable as my dad in the eyes of the bank. If you're a co-borrower, you're liable.

Big Bag of Chips · 22-04-2022 1:02pm

Yes she was. That was why she was solely paying the mortgage herself following their separation. He walked away from it but she was still liable to pay it.

You really need to seek legal advice. Your mother being liable for the mortgage is one thing. YOU are not liable for it. If your mother has no means to pay it after the death of her husband, that's up to the bank to sort out with her. I assume you are not guarantor on the mortgage. You did not sign saying you would take on responsibility for repayments in the event of your mother or father defaulting on payments?

You are not responsible.

You need legal advice for yourself and you also need counselling as a matter of priority. Low cost counsellors are available. Please make an appointment with your GP.

TheGlossy · 22-04-2022 8:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118959329#Comment_118959329

Nothing will be repaid to me is something I know for sure. I have paid for a few things and my mother never even offered to repay me at some point down the line yet she offered to refund my youngest sister for the few things she absorbed. She goes from the principle that I have a job and therefore don't need her to repay me. Now that my dad has passed, I have seen an even greater sense of entitlement emanating from her. She is expecting everyone to cater to her (me, the multiple friends she keeps mentioning, her brother, my sister), yet it's wonder if she supports anyone at all. She never sought to emancipate herself and has always been dependent on my dad for everything (money, transportation, paperwork).

Exactly - 4 months to process mortgage protection is a lot and the insurer is not transparent at all on what the hold up is. All I can do is politely follow up.

I feel as though everyone is trying to squeeze everything they can from me and I'm just letting it happen because I'm far too tired to even try.

TheGlossy · 22-04-2022 8:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960934#Comment_118960934

True. I'm not liable for it, this is for sure. I've no involvement in this mortgage whatsoever (aside from me getting the mortgage protection sorted). I'm just assisting out of kindness, nothing more.

I have looked into the link provided for low-cost counselling. I will be ringing on Monday and will also book an appointment with my GP. I'm really feeling like I'm on the verge of a real breakdown. My emotions are all over the place. If I'm not crying all day, I'm either about to burst with anger or riddled with anxiety. Not to mentioned the physical reactions (chest pains, headaches, constant nausea). I'm stressed and grieving, but this will lead to a really bad outcome if I keep going like this.

HildaOgdenx · 22-04-2022 8:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118962900#Comment_118962900

I'm glad to see that you are going to your GP and to check out counselling.

It's actually very common for one's own health to suffer after a bereavement and that is even without all the added pressure you are under. Please take care.

Ave Sodalis · 22-04-2022 8:51pm

OP, please look after yourself. I know you said you think the doctor's only solution is pills but that's not always the case. Even if it was, it doesn't mean they don't do anything and it doesn't mean you have to stay on them.

I was in your shoes pressure wise. I felt like I was getting torn into different pieces by people needing me to be in twenty places at once. I was barely getting sleep (and couldn't really get to sleep when I did get to bed) and still didn't have enough hours in the day. I was working full time, finishing a post grad with brain fog and pain from an autoimmune, dealing with a break up of a long term relationship and the loss of my dog... and extended family were constantly demanding my time and making me feel like a horrible person for not spending even more time with them. No matter what I did, no matter how hard I worked, it was never enough. My hair started falling out, my IBS was constantly flaring up, I became a very angry person and I was on the very edge of what I could handle. Like you, I'd have always been of the mindset that I don't need pills. It was actually a neurologist that sent off the prescription as they also work as a form of sleeping tablets, and wouldn't entertain my protests.

They helped so much. They didn't take away my problems but they took the edge off them, let me focus on getting through them, and let me see the forest with the tress. I really should have done it sooner.

Your family situation is temporary. You have not even had a chance to grieve. Please allow yourself a little help in getting through this.

Big Bag of Chips · 22-04-2022 9:29pm

Be honest with your GP. Let it all out. You will likely breakdown when talking to them, but that's OK. That's what they're there for. They might not give you any pills, but will almost certainly sign you off work for a few weeks. Take the time off. Remember the post above - The world will keep turning. Your employer will not go out of business because you're not there doing 12 hour days and weekends.

Take the time off, and take time off. From it all. Go for drives. A walk on the beach. A cup of tea and a book somewhere. Just take time. Switch off. You are still in the grieving process but you are burying it under everything else. You cannot sustain what you have been doing.

Your mam will survive. Seems like she has plenty of backup support if you're not always so available. Let other people decide for themselves how they will handle her. You just need to concentrate on yourself for a little while and on giving yourself a break.

Big Bag of Chips · 22-04-2022 9:33pm

Exactly - 4 months to process mortgage protection is a lot and the insurer is not transparent at all on what the hold up is. All I can do is politely follow up.

Insurers don't like to pay out more money than they have to. So the longer the delay, the more you pay, the smaller the amount they have to clear.

Stop paying. It's nothing to do with you.

TheGlossy · 22-04-2022 9:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963269#Comment_118963269

I don't know how it works here in Ireland, but the policy states that the insurer will pay the mortgage retroactively from the day my dad died. Whatever amount out that has already been paid out of pocket since he died will reimbursed by the insurer. This was confirmed by both the bank and the insurer when I spoke to them and it is stipulated in the contract. Therefore, if they take my dad's death date as starting point and pay the bank retroactively, there is no point for them in delaying anything. Regardless of how long they delay the application, the amount will always be the same.

The only thing that worries me is the fact that I know insurers look for ways out. None of the exclusions clauses apply to the cause of death, which is good.

TheGlossy · 22-04-2022 9:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963246#Comment_118963246

Agree. This employer will not go out of business because of me that's for sure. They're a global company with +250K employees worldwide. They'll be fine. I'm just a drop in the ocean or a number.

I have been so focused on all these external things that I think I forgot myself in the process entirely. I spend my days thinking of everyone else but me. I took an afternoon off today and someone at work WhatsApped me saying they needed something urgently - I ended up logging in and spending roughly 2 hours online.

It's been an absolute nightmare because every single time I try to disconnect, catch my breath, someone or something pops up. I've completely removed all boundaries with everyone and I'm certainly paying the price for it because I know that if you don't set boundaries and keep giving, people will just take and take without a care as to how you're doing. It's my role to set boundaries, but I feel guilty doing so, so I end up sacrificing myself instead.

You're right though - I buried my grief under everything else. I haven't processed it at all.

shesty · 22-04-2022 10:14pm

Why did you log in?

The answer there is not to read it.Or read and ignore.Worse case - respond with sorry I am off, I will check that tomorrow for you.There is absolutely nothing that cannot wait a few hours.If you are off, you MUST be off and unavailable.You can't stop them whatsapping you, but you can stop yourself responding and acting on the demands.You must draw that boundary OP, don't wait for them to draw it.If you are off, you are not available.If you make yourself available, they will keep asking, knowing you will respond.

All the other advice is excellent.You need grieving time, on top of everything else.Go see your GP, and take on board any suggestions offered.

Big Bag of Chips · 22-04-2022 10:50pm

If the mortgage is going to be cleared from the date of death then you owe nobody anything.

Learn to say "I can't". Learn to ignore texts. Not to read them when you're off. A global company with 250 thousand+ employees? You are not the only one who can find what's needed. You genuinely ARE just a number. If you end up in hospital, someone else will be able to look after that very urgent business. And no business is THAT urgent that it can't wait a day, or over the weekend. You will end up very ill if you don't stop...

...And the world will keep on turning!

riclad · 23-04-2022 3:32am

You are basically paying bills on a temporary basis , you'll get repaid the mortgage payments I think, if you are paying part of the mortgage, you are doing this out of kindness and to protect the family, you should go to a gp and seek help, maybe get a doctors note. Eg this person can't work more than 40 hours a week. Absolutely .. No overtime should be given to him for the next 2 months. Its difficult to deal with finance issues insurance in another country

I was stressed out dealing with one bank account and I had no bills to pay apart from loaning money to one older relative to help her pay bills for a few months eg there was no mortgage to pay on the family home

You are really taking on alot by yourself I don't know why you are not getting more help from your sister dealing with this or help paying the bills I hope you go to a gp or get some counselling

I don't know how it takes months to process one insurance claim but procedures differ in different countrys

My advice is is see is it possible to switch off email WhatsApp 2 days a week to give yourself a break eg email your boss eg can I take a break from doing overtime while I deal with probate and various family matters for at least a month

I find going for a walk or a cycle is a good break to relax exercise is very important for everyone even its only 20 minutes per day

Hannibal_Smith · 23-04-2022 8:29am

Ah OP If you book time off - don't answer your phone. Don't log on to work. If it's a global company they should have their act together a bit more. Surely in such a big company there's a HR Department with policies in place?

If you don't start changing nothing will change. Say no, take a break. And if anyone tries to guilt trip you do not take it on board.

I'm glad you're going to see your GP. In the meantime read over the thread you've got some great tips here. Put them in to practice in the interim and give yourself the weekend just for you. Ignore your phone.

SunnySundays · 23-04-2022 11:22am

Op, I posted earlier in the thread but want to post again as it's very clear this is having a massive impact on you.

You can't allow yourself sink trying to keep everyone else afloat. The last number of months have been about everyone else but now they need to be about you. You are the number one priority now if you don't do this, then you won't be able to help anyone else at all.

If your employer has 250k staff worldwide, they probably have some sort of Employee Assistance Programme which will usually allow for 6 free counselling sessions or alternative support - can you check this out.

Medical support - glad you are talking to your GP. Don't dismiss medication. If it will help, consider it.

Insurance claims - not sure what country your family are in but the payout rate in most counties is high. Delays are not unusual especially if someone has extensive health issues in their background. Until you know otherwise, assume the payout will come.

Continuing to pay - why? What's the benefit? What's the repossession timeline etc. Bsnks in most cases accept that when a borrower dies, they will be waiting for the insurance and deal with it until then.

While is chasing who - if the bank aren't contacting you things are fine. If they was an issue, they would be so park it. You've notified them of the death, they probably have an assignment on the life policy, they know the story. Unfortunately I don't know what the procedures are like in the country involved but here, banks know they will be paid from insurance and don't get too bothered unless the timeline exceeds average.

Your mother- griefing or not, how she treats you is not acceptable. Take a step back,minimise contact. If she speaks to you negatively again, suggest she proceed without your help.

Would you consider annual leave or stress leave? Just time for you. No work interruptions etc.

Also, your sister seems like a good one. Would you consider telling her what you are going through. Between ye, you will be able to manage better.

You are one person. You can only do so much. You cannot pour from an empty cup so right now focus on you and your health and you can worry about others once you are back to full strength.

I feel stifled and like a failure

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