What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

We’re not importing more to be downtrodden and disenfranchised in the first place, that’s why I made no mention of skin colour or ethnicity or culture or anything else. There’s plenty are already downtrodden and disenfranchised and anti-immigration, anti-multiculturalism measures haven’t done anything to address their circumstances. All they’ve done is make the same people even more resentful and bitter than they were already, and without immigrants and other people who aren’t like them, who else are they going to take out their frustration on only each other? Always looking for ways to differentiate themselves as being superior in some way to other people, and play the victim when questioned about why they haven’t done anything for themselves.

I don’t imagine education on it’s own is the solution, and I don’t think it’s driven by racism either to be honest. I think it’s just driven by people who elevate people who are like them, and they don’t care much for people who aren’t. It’s apathy more than anything. People here arguing to keep immigrants who haven’t the means to fend for themselves out of Europe are using people already living in poverty and misery as a means to say we should help those people first. I might think they had a credible argument if they were actually trying to help those people already, but according to your own characterisation that would make them lefties or dreamers or basically anything that you view negatively, and they couldn’t be having that, cos that’s icky.

I do agree there are cultural and internal aspects in play, and clearly there are similar cultural and internal aspects in play for all groups when statistics are used which don’t represent the true numbers of people who are unemployed or not in the labour market. Expressed the figures as percentages hides the true numbers of those who are unemployed, etc - far more people unemployed who aren’t immigrants, in run-down shitholes which Government will piss money down the drain on regeneration schemes to put money in their friends pockets than anything these schemes will do for the people living in those areas.

Simply put - the political will isn’t there, and politicians don’t care about whether these people do or don’t vote, they only care about the people who are like them too!

As for any ideas that we can’t talk about whatever, I disagree, the last 400 or so pages in just this thread alone would definitely suggest otherwise. There’s nothing stopping anyone talking about whatever they want, everyone has an equal right to freedom of expression. What they’re lacking is the ability to compel anyone to agree with them.

I sort of agree with you, the Welfare State isn’t helping, and it doesn’t help anyone in those circumstances. I do think the same money that’s spent on perpetuating the issues could be better spent on providing actual supports and resources that would encourage and motivate people to better themselves.

That’s an almost Herculean task though when you’re surrounded by people who would accuse you of having notions if you tried to better yourself, because they like the misery. What would they have to complain about if they weren’t miserable?

Why couldn’t you blame anyone who thinks like that? Anyone who imagines they’re better off at the mercy of the State is entirely responsible for thinking they’re better off in that position than they are trying to better themselves. It’s short-sighted and immature, but there aren’t that many people will actually care either way.

The vast majority of people still continue to work towards something and the vast majority of people will continue to work towards the kind of life they want for themselves and their families. There really aren’t a lot of young people thinking that they’d be better off on the dole, because they look at people on the dole the same way you do - you’d be on it already if you actually thought you’d be better off.

We didn’t import any anyone, and those people who were granted refugee status at the time weren’t intended to be downtrodden and disenfranchised. Direct Provision was only ever supposed to be a short term measure when it was introduced, but the numbers of refugees soared, with the referendum making no difference at all. Nothing magic actually happened, it was just the figures got fudged, as Govt departments are wont to do with all sorts of statistical data -

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IRL/ireland/refugee-statistics

Compare that with unemployment trends for the same period -

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IRL/ireland/unemployment-rate

It’s not a social experiment, it’s by design. In times of “prosperity”, everyone’s welcome. In times of austerity, people start pointing fingers, and that’s why I argue that it’s not driven by racism. Race or ethnicity or culture really has nothing to do with it. It simply comes down to which groups in society are the easiest targets for anyone to vent about, who do they consider a burden on society, who’s depriving them of their entitlement to prosperity? It doesn’t delineate neatly along political lines of left or right, liberal or conservative - everyone’s a target when some people feel they are being deprived of the things they feel they are entitled to.

As far as the Ukrainian refugee situation goes, I don’t have much to say about it to be honest because I’m just not that heavily invested in it, other than to agree with you that balls were dropped all over the shop, from the Government’s handling of the situation, to NGOs handling of the situation. It’s bad already, and it’s only going to get a whole lot worse. I found myself asking “what did they expect?” when I read this article the other day -

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/13/stop-matching-lone-female-ukraine-refugees-with-single-men-uk-told

I haven’t seen anything like this thread ever on RTE or in the national media or anything else, and I’m not going to lie I wouldn’t watch it, same as I didn’t watch the Presidential posturing when Peter Casey trolled the nation. Trump-lite is all he was, and he disappeared when it was made clear to him after numerous attempts to get into politics, that he just wasn’t wanted.

I have no doubt you’re not so thin-skinned as PC that being called a racist by people who’s opinion you don’t care all that much for in the first place, that you would genuinely find them the least bit offensive, let alone the notion that you could possibly be humiliated into silence! The idea itself of you being humiliated into silence because some idiot calls you names is laughable. That’s why I don’t accept it as a reasonable defence of the idea that we can’t talk about these things. A far more reasonable conclusion as to why there’s no “debate” in the national media, and why it’s only an issue confined to the nuttier corners of the Internet, is because there’s just no appetite to pay any attention to people in Ireland who express those sort of sentiments. It just looks like it’s aping politics in other countries that really doesn’t apply in this country.

It's ironic that the taxes collected from the already struggling middle are now directly being used to squeeze them further by further limiting their ability to access healthcare and housing (per the other thread/Examiner, Darragh O'Brien is granting emergency powers to the councils to buy up what stock there is for housing refugees - which of course they've quietly been at for years to house social tenants).

We're rapidly approaching a situation where taxpayers aren't just funding opportunities and access for others, but now where those same opportunities will be denied to those who are paying for it.

That's true. The last time I remember massive protests was in response to the Irish Water debacle (8 years ago), and before that in the aftermath of the Veronica Guerin murder and the anti-drug protests (in the mid 90s)

Too many Irish people don't give a toss until/unless it affects them personally, be it directly or someone they care about, or in their own immediate locality.

Our political system has become so diluted by Confidence and Supply and outright Coalition deals to ensure the status quo is maintained (not that SF would be any better mind! Likely the opposite!) that already low turnouts and voter apathy will probably increase, or we start voting in even more unworkable groups as a futile protest vote.

Meanwhile, the average taxpayer is left not only to pay for it all, but to reap ever fewer rewards for it until the entire house of cards collapses (again!) and we have to crawl back to the IMF and EU because Government policies and lax oversight have again run the country over a cliff.

Oh right yeah. They shouldnt be allowed drive cause it will annoy Irish people 😅

What a stupid question.

Will they be asked to sit a test and pass our rules of the road first, or will we just let em "have at it"?

Will their cars be tested for roadworthiness by the NCT? There's enough dodgy motors on the road as it is if you watched Primetime during the week.

Will they need to reregister the car here and pay motor tax and insurance? (I'm assuming so?)

I can certainly see these things "annoying" Irish people if they had an accident with one of the new arrivals who just got into their car and off they went!

Or alternatively, just expect them to play by the same rules as the rest of us?

Edited to add..

See, it's all very well grandstanding for the "feelz" and social media kudos for "doing the right thing", but once you actually look into the suggestions it seems it's not that straightforward after all!

This is why Government and the cheerleaders are now discovering that having a "come one, come all" policy in the midst of an ongoing housing crisis and deepening economic challenges may NOT have been as easy as they thought!

Honestly

What about it? Or did I miss something. Did the government say Ukrainians can drive without car insurance?

they can start lobbying for that out of us too.

You just did claim the mantle of compassion earlier so yeah none of what you say makes sense.