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The annual Teachers threaten to strike thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,496 ✭✭✭fliball123


    As our taxes do not pay for retail workers to work



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,463 ✭✭✭History Queen


    Union officials cannot rule out strike action unless members have been balloted on it. Union officials are bound be the decisions of members as demonstrated in ballots.



  • Registered Users Posts: 840 ✭✭✭teachinggal123


    @Treppen how much do you think teachers should get as a pay rise?

    Do you think teachers should just look after only themselves? Or do we (and our unions) have a responsibility to society in general?

    Do you think just teachers deserve this pay rise or all the PS in general?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Quitelife


    Talking to a neighbors son home From London who teachs there, he said Irish teachers are paid approximately 25-35% more than teachers in the UK and have 5 weeks more holidays in Ireland than the UK??

    Teachers in the UK would take your hand off for the pay and holidays Irish teachers have according to him.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,496 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Dont be saying things like that . The teachers on here will just tell you to go live in the UK



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,692 ✭✭✭✭Geuze



    Note that many wage rates here are 25% higher than the UK.

    Yes, UK kids spend more days in school in June and July, but as a result are they cleverer than our kids????



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,692 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    I would not use the GB education system as a good comparator.

    I would want our teachers to be paid more than there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,603 ✭✭✭dubrov


    I wouldn't be using the UK education system as a barometer. Teachers are paid particularly poorly there and this is reflected in the poor quality of the teaching pool.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,433 ✭✭✭Homelander


    An entirely fair point but it brings us back full circle to the fact that teachers here are paid well with a good salary scale and generally good perks of the job, and calls for more pay are not really entirely credible.

    I completely accept there's a problem in that loads of teachers languish for ages without being on said scale, but the first point is high enough that when you eventually get there, it's compensated well enough.

    I fully support addressing those issues within the profession, absolutely, but I cannot support calls for more pay that paint a general picture of teachers being over-worked and under-paid, barely scraping by.

    A nurse can be working for 5/6 years before they're on the first point of the teacher scale, believe it starts at around 30k. So they are not entirely dissimilar when you take the years of crap many teachers have to put up with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,603 ✭✭✭dubrov


    Unions would be mad to not at least ask for a pay rise matching inflation. Any rise less than that is effectively a pay cut.

    Maybe we are all in for effective pay cuts soon but I am not seeing that yet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,496 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Unions would be mad to be looking for more pay rises on top of the pay rises agreed and on top of increments after a 2 years period where teachers did phuck all work during the pandemic..The money is not there.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The current rate of inflation is affecting everyone, but it is temporary. Teachers have a uniquely advantageous situation with long holiday periods that other employees do not enjoy. They hold a gun to the head of students, and parents and dirtied their bibs during Covid which means that those who are also struggling will compare their situation to the lot of teachers and think these guys are taking advantage of the situation. As things stand, it’s hard to sympathise with the plight of teachers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,390 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Please show details of any statistical analysis done anywhere in the world that assesses performance of teachers taking into account the variability of students? You might want to read up on the extreme difficulties encountered in both Ireland and the UK attempting a statistical analysis to calibrate grades assigned by teachers. I'll be delighted to hear how you've managed to solve the problems encountered all over the world.

    Perhaps more importantly, you might want to clarify what problem you're solving here. I know it's a bit of a mad idea, but if you're going to come with a new way to performance manage teachers, you might want to speak to a) some principals, b) some teachers, c) some parents and d) some board of management members. Again, a bit mad, but maybe you could ask them what problem they need solving, instead of doing the seagull-consultant approach. What problem are you trying to solve?

    The thread title doesn't say 'refused to rule out' though, so it is widely inaccurate. There is a fairly big difference between threatening something and refusing to rule out something.

    ROFLMAO. This is hilarious, really.

    Did you tell your parents everything that happened in the classroom? Did you ever put a particular spin on things, to make sure you came off better and your teacher came off worse.

    To suggest judging performance of anyone based on hearsay is the painfully childish and inadequete.

    There is no 'extra day'. If you want to know exactly what happened in your school, you'll need to speak to your school. The most likely situation is that the school held back a day or two for weather contingencies, to cover the possibility of being closed due to snow or flood. When they got to mid-March with no extreme weather events, they made a judgement that they didn't need to hold onto this contingency, so they closed for the Monday instead.

    That's a guess, but speak to your own school if you want the detail. All schools have the same number of days in their calendar.

    Were you serious? Did you want to me repeat the answer I had already given you? You're the one claiming to know what everyone thinks on a topic, when you clearly have absolutely no idea what happens between a principal and their teacher. Do you think that teachers flag up their performance management actions in the school newsletter or what?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,390 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Did you ask him to compare the salaries of plumbers between Ireland and the UK? Or doctors? Or accountants?

    Or rental costs? Or food costs?

    Someone really didn't pay attention in maths class.

    Teachers don't want your sympathy. They're not a charity case.

    They want to be able to keep their heating running and keep food on the table this winter.

    Unions would be mad to listed to you as the judge of what to look for.



  • Registered Users Posts: 342 ✭✭briangriffin


    Teachers in UK work 190 days, primary school teachers in ireland work 182 down from 183 last year.

    Teachers in the UK are leaving in droves due to low wages onerous workload and stress from the job and parents. The UK model is fundamentally flawed despite having much lower class numbers and teaching assistants in many classes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,390 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    How are the parents going to judge the competence of the teacher? Parents don't sit in the classroom.

    Gwan, join up the dots and see who the parents have to talk to and work with to get that information?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I’m not going to quote your post Andrew, nor indeed respond repeatedly to your posts because I’ve seen you in action on other threads and know there can be no satisfaction to debating issues with you. Suffice to say, just because something has not been done successfully before does not mean it cannot be done, only that there was no interest in doing it. It is time for the Government to stand their ground with teachers unions and show them that they have a privileged existence with no performance oversight. So, Andrew, if you want to get stuck in as you do with other threads, bang away.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,496 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Its funny but didnt parents literally have to supervise their kids over the last 2 years and had to try and engage with the teacher which was shocking, while the teacher just copied and pasted exercise after exercise via the school apps. It wouldn't be hard to come up with a bit more communication about your kid how they are doing maybe even on a monthly basis. If your kid is struggling academically it might be a good idea to let the parent know a lot sooner than the once a year parent/teacher meeting. The only time the school seems to engage with parents other than this is if the kid is in trouble for some reason. We have baseline tests such as drumcondra that will show where a kid is at academically. We also have big class room sizes so a nice big sample size of both students, parents and teachers so it would be easy enough to come up with some statistical perfomance grade for teachers. The current situation just allows bad teachers (and lets be honest is there anyone on here growing up who didn't have a teacher who was absolutely sh1t at their job as I had at least 3, dont get me wrong I had far more good teachers than bad) to continue with impunity and gives good teachers a bad name. Then you could change the incremental system and base it on performance where those teachers that are good at their job get rewarded more.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 37 thiagos




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,390 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Well, no, teachers didn't literally have to supervise. Just like normal schooling, some parents were closely involved, some parents weren't.

    That doesn't change anything about the inherent foolishness of the idea of rating teachers based on 2nd hand information.

    Fair enough, but you still have no idea what goes on between a teacher and the principal.

    So it hasn't been done anywhere in the world, but you think we need to do it here, to make you feel better about managing teacher performance.

    Principals manage teacher performance all the time. They don't need the tech bros elbowing in with solutions looking for a problem.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,255 ✭✭✭Sammy2012


    I'd like to ask you filball123 what age are your kids? I'm teaching long enough to not let things bother me but it's also a generalisation to say that teacher's did not work over covid.

    I did online classes with my then 1st and 2nd class every day of the second school closure. I was available during school hours for anyone who wanted help. I translated Irish for parents who didn't understand it. I came back to my device in the evening when my own then Junior Infant and 1st class children had gone to bed and corrected work that was submitted in the evening. I prepared and recored Maths lessons for the children in my class who were struggling and I made sure that my own children did their work. My husband was out at work all the time. I hated online "teaching" and couldn't wait to go back to school. I also made sure in both 2020 and 2021 that my 2nd class children got to make their First Holy Communion as I knew how important it was to them.

    We as a school were less prepared for the First closure but we tried. We even managed to meet up with the kids before the end of the year in 2020.

    I will never feel that I didnt try. And I know a lot of teachers did too. Yes a lot didnt but lots did. I am also very privileged that I don't have many money worries. We will be fine but we don't have a big mortgage or childcare to pay for. Lots of people/teachers my age do however. The job of our union is to fight for these things for teachers. It's why we pay our subscription fees on a fortnightly basis. I don't agree with lots of things the union say or do but it is their job to do these things.

    Also if you'd like to come into my classroom and tell me how you could base my salary on the performance of the children who sit in it be my guest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 342 ✭✭briangriffin


    What you did was the norm and not the exception, the exception was teachers putting up lists of work in the first lockdown but it did happen no denying, those were the vast minority of schools. Any teacher that was doing that 2 months in or in the second lockdown should rightly have been reported to the department and been sanctioned. But I'm afraid fillballs problem with teachers predates covid.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,496 ✭✭✭fliball123


    How is it second hand when its coming from the parent of the child. In order to teach you need someone to teach?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,255 ✭✭✭Sammy2012


    Thanks! I'm sure it was. As per usual you only hear about the teachers who were not doing their job. Lots just got on with it. The department are a useless shower too. I see the failures and faults within the system. Would you believe the school I work in hasn't had a whole school inspection in over 16 years?! Never in my time there. That should not be allowed to happen. A lot of teachers do great work. But it's their own drive and wanting to do best by the children in their care that they do it for. Of course there are bad teachers, just as there are bad tradesmen, accountants, solicitors. But the vast majority are good and dedicated workers. And anyone who wants to emulate the British education system should give themselves a shake. Ive worked in that. It's definitely a race to the bottom.



  • Registered Users Posts: 840 ✭✭✭teachinggal123


    How do you know teachers working during COVID was “the norm” in “the vast majority of schools”? Pure and absolute jibberish.

    Also, how many teachers who did fu3k all during COVID were reported and sanctioned? I would say zero, but please do correct me if you can.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,255 ✭✭✭Sammy2012


    Hello teachinggal...did you report yourself by any chance???



  • Registered Users Posts: 840 ✭✭✭teachinggal123


    Hi Sam … do you know any teachers who didn’t work during COVID? Were any of those sanctioned?

    Or was it teacher omertà?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,255 ✭✭✭Sammy2012


    I know you didn't. You told us that many times on the teachers thread at the time. But it wasn't your fault. Was the culture in your school or something like that. I can tell you we had a lot of issues behind the scenes in my school during covid but they didn't interfere with me doing what I was supposed to do.

    So that's why I'm asking you did you report yourself? All my colleagues worked during covid. I can only speak for my own school. But many many teachers I interacted with online were working hard.


    I actually am beginning to wonder if you are a teacher at all at this stage?! Your attitude towards fellow teachers is very poor. And before you start I am aware there are bad teachers, but there are bad/lazy members of all professions.



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