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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Must be about a month ago, he was on something RTE or VM1, anyway he made a throwaway remark that food should cost 40% of income and it was let pass by the presenter and other panelists, have we become so afraid of minorities that when they are spouting complete dung they can't be called up on it for fear you'll be accused of some 'ist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Of the current predicaments and circumstances we find ourselves adapting absolutely NONE are caused by climate change. Zero!

    The wars that began 2 decades ago in the middle east (Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen) and now the Ukraine are all man made, wars have many layers to them, control of natural resources is always there. Climate change is NOT the cause of these conflicts.

    The virus origin has nothing to do with climate change and is very likely man made. Unlike SARSv1 where the source was quickly traced, no natural source has been found to date. That opens the probability that inadequate control procedures among scientists carrying out gain of function research in one jurisdiction to circumvent restrictions on such research in another led to a lab escape. We may never know the truth. I subscribe to the Hanlons razor theory of its origin in the lab.

    It took ~30 years (post-1989 Berlin wall fall) to build up todays supply chain infrastructure. Both the creation and recent disruption of these supply chains can be traced to the implementation of American foreign policy (Pax Americana). The change in orientation away from China during the Trump administration started the process of re-routing the supply chains.  The lockdowns of the past 2 years seriously disrupted said supply chains and now its compounded by the redrawing of geopolitical alliances means those supply chains need to be rebuilt in a process that will take several years to complete.

    Inflation, supply chain problems, and shortages of energy, food, raw materials and labour were already issues that the Ukraine war and sanctions have now accelerated.  On top of this debt collapse is only a matter of time for several European countries and banks, the resources are not immediately available and monetary expansion cannot resolve this. Those who get the new money first can outbid those at the end of the monetary distribution. Aside from weapons Ukraine is looking for $7 billion a month and all surrounding countries (including Russia) have the cost to support the millions of refugees from the warzone.

    In Ireland on an individual basis we must face the fact that we must now prepare for Winter and have maybe 3 months to be ready. We must build our energy & food reserves and savings today to meet next Winters bills. For many of us that will mean putting money aside now for warm clothes, electricity and gas bills and forgoing expensive holidays and other luxuries (seen in the Netflix cancellations) in order to pay the increased electricity bills and taxation during the Winter.  It's back to the 70s & 80's except we are the parents scolding our children for not turning off the lights (or unplugging the xbox).  Don't be surprised to find more common gaps in the shelves over the course of the year, simply because of the delays and bottlenecks in the supply chain, even getting spare parts for equipment is already causing problems and that was because of the lockdowns.

    Green policies pursued over the past 2 decades have played their part in creating the current energy crisis, politicians may be dumb, but they are not all stupid and they realise this is going to take several years to resolve. Green policies are now a political liability and they are being readjusted. Lets see how long the turf war in Ireland goes.


    Politically there is a very real chance that the energy crisis will fracture the EU.



    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    EU has become something nobody wanted, can see a paring back to something resembling the original trading bloc.Eastern Europe are there by necessity not want , Russia going to come out of Ukraine a much weakened entity. No fear of Russia ,no need for EU



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,843 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Who says Eamon Ryan and the Greens are out of touch...


    Eamon Ryan says the “keeping up with the Joneses” effect will make homeowners pay for expensive energy-efficient retrofits.

    That's easy to say I guess when you're a Minister and can afford a 1.3m place in the leafy southside suburbs.

    What's even more distasteful is this was all done in the midst of the financial crisis from what I can see with planning permission granted in October 2008 according to the article .



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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,987 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Eamonn Ryan’s house is worth 1.3m apparently , so that’s where he’s coming from



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,843 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    As I've said before, the problems started when they started pushing for this notion of a USofE. As a trade bloc (the EEC) it worked pretty well.

    There IS no common European sense of identity, just a collection of economic and culturally diverse nations with their own priorities and values that often clash with their neighbours - never forget that it wasn't all that long ago that one half was at war with the other (not forgetting the decades long East/West Cold War) - and the financial crisis, and particularly the response from the EU leadership, really exposed just how unequal the bloc is.

    The notion that anyone would want to leave this club is unfathomable to its leadership and this was reflected in the handling of Brexit which whether you agree with it or not, was the democratic choice of the UK electorate, but the response to other member states who questioned or refused Merkel's policy on non-EU immigration was telling too.

    But the way things are going now economically and with Putin still driving through Ukraine and the pressure that's causing (not least here at home) will soon lead to further divisions just as it did a decade ago - not from Ireland though. Here our obsequious and sycophantic weak leadership will continue to do what they're told by their "betters" regardless of the consequences domestically, just as they always do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    What is particularly scary is that our collection of numb-nuts, lead by our minister for energy and cheered on by his supporters, are determined to ignore that and in the name of their ideology force us to go cold turkey without gas or any credible alternative.

    Not a problem for those with deep pockets living in McMansions in the leafy suburbs that can afford to play "keeping up with the Joneses" but not much help to the ordinary poor working sap who cannot just afford to, but whose taxes are subsidising them to keep up with the Joneses.

    The Irish Green party has gone from one that looked down their noses at the now defunked Progressive Democrats to now being their mirror image.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭nigeldaniel


    I would not say getting shut of turf would be a bad move long term, but not at all for now. I still maintain an LPG plant would go a long way to giving the public more confidence with gas when it comes to planning home heating. I myself have a wood stove and use it accordingly. I do use turf in it from time to time but it stinks badly when the stove is cold.

    I do think an alternative for home heating would be electric radiators if only they did not need so much power/electricity to work.

    That's my two pennies worth on that matter.

    Dan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    A LNG plant would give the public more confidence with gas for more than just home heating.

    2020 over 50% of electricity was generated by gas.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo



    An interesting overview of the house here and its "eco upgrade" completed back in 2010 or thereabouts.

    Some of the comments did make me laugh with aesthetic considerations being high on the priority list ...

    "the estate the house is in has an "arts and crafts" design style, and maintaining the look of the house was essential ... — this ruled out external insulation, and meant the front of the house got period-look double- glazed windows – ponderosa pine casement windows from Marvin Architectural – rather than triple-glazing. "It was going to be impossible to get a period look with a triple-glazed window,"... "The windows are the eyes of the house. They're more important than anything in terms of the look of it."

    The eco upgrade involved the installation of a Gasifying Log Boiler and a wood stove as backup. Both which apparently use wood sourced from forest thinnings in County Wicklow

    That and the fact that the open fireplaces were retained means Eamon wouldn't have been worrying about home heating oil or gas prices.

    Though with Eamon now trying also to increasingly restrict / tax the use of wood as a fuel source with the general line that burning anything will kill you, your family and neighbours stone dead, it would make you wonder.

    Maybe he's upgraded to all electric. Who knows.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia




  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Passive homes are possible for a lot less than 1.3 million

    You can build lovely, comfortable 4 bed passive home for 200k plus the site costs


    The fact that a wealthy politician built an expensive house in a fancy and expensive part of one of the most expensive cities in europe does nothing to defeat his arguments that we should all be aiming for passive standard for new builds and to bring the existing housing stock to higher energy efficiency standards



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Ireland is a net exporter of agricultural produce, most of which which is traded with other European countries. But as the producer Ireland gets penalised for any related emissions. Those who buy and consume exported Irish agricultural produce do not.

    Why doesn't Saudi Arabia and other oil producers get hit with Carbon Taxes, they're the producer of the oil, ditto for Gas Producers. Nah, as usual taxes are only for the peasants. Sums up green policies.

    The wax lyrical about how the producer should pay... but they say one thing and do another.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    If that’s the case we should be paying China for all the manufacturers they have



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Why should we be paying China? Are you suggesting that carbon taxes should be applied to Chinese imports or should carbon taxes be applied by the Chinese on their own produce (like we impose on Irish producers).

    Or has China given two fingers to the green idea of carbon taxes leaving it up to numpty western governments to double-tax their own peasants to make up for China's shortfall?



  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭ATR72


    China was clear from the start that they had no interest in carbon taxes and closing down coal plants. They have millions of poor people who need to heat their homes and can't afford an extra tax.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Spot on, for every EU/USA coal plant that gets shut down China are replacing them on a scale of almost 2:1



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    This is what you posted: Ireland is a net exporter of agricultural produce, most of which which is traded with other European countries. But as the producer Ireland gets penalised for any related emissions. Those who buy and consume exported Irish agricultural produce do not.

    So if you want the people who buy and consume Irish products the same should happen here when we consume other countries product?

    It would seem you are incorrect in terms of China




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Firstly, you are wrong - I never posted that statement, I replied to it.

    Secondly - there isn't one mention of carbon tax in that wikipedia page you linked to.

    Yet another smoke and mirrors posting by you. China does not impose any carbon taxes on anything it produces or consumes.

    Ireland imposes carbon taxes on everything it produces and consumes. We are taxed both ways, the Chinese are not even taxed at all.

    Almost one-in-four on the planet can produce and consume as it wants without any carbon taxes - but 5m people on an island off the west coast of Europe are taxed to the hilt thinking we're gonna change the world. Laughable.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Did you read those figures for China before you posted ?

    For 2021 67% of electricity in China was generated from a combination of coal, oil and gas.

    2019 62% was from coal alone, and with them having increased their GWh year on year from coal, plus them building over 30 new coal fired plants, I doubt that 62% has dropped.

    For 2021 their total electricity generation from renewables was 27.7%. Of that figure only 7.8% was wind generated and just 4.5% from solar. The rest was from hydro, higher than wind and solar combined.

    The remainder was from nuclear at 5% and unspecified bits and pieces. Doesn`t say much for the worlds largest producers of solar panels that just 4.5% was generated by solar, or indeed wind either at just 7.8% now does it ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Japan, one of the top five CO2 emitters is not a poor country, yet they are building 7 large coal burning plants and refused to sign COP26 "because it needs to preserve all its options for power generation"

    Meanwhile our green nut-jobs are attempting to ban gas and turf. If they had looked at what went on at COP26 then the message they should have come away with was cop yourselves on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,843 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    It's more that he did so in the middle of a financial crisis when the ordinary citizens were struggling to pay the bills and keep a roof over their heads or losing their jobs outright that's distasteful about it. Especially when he was part of the Government that presided over it.

    Doubly so the quote that he reckons that the "keeping up with the Joneses" effect will spur people on now (which was part of the problem that led to the financial crisis) when we're in the middle of another economic and housing crisis.

    It all goes to show just how tone deaf and disconnected the guy and his merry band are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Seriously that's the best you can do? A link to an entire article about China from Wikipedia. Is there a specific bit that you think might be relevant?

    But tell us - do you believe everything of the Chinese spin machine reports via Wikipedia?

    What we do know is that China is leading the world in building new coal power plants, with China building more than three times as much new coal power capacity as all other countries in the world combined in 2020.

    China is currently building 43 new coal-fired power plants and 18 new blast furnaces — equivalent to adding about 1.5% to its current annual emissions. The new projects were announced in the first half of 2021 despite the world’s largest polluter making claims of bringing its emissions to a peak before 2030, and to make the country carbon neutral by 2060

    While China has most certainly published plans to reach peak carbon emissions by 2030, statements from China goverment indicate that the current energy crisis had led the Communist party to rethink the timing of this ambition, with a new “phased timetable and roadmap for peaking carbon emissions”. Take that how you will.

    What we do know is that at this moment a new major coal-fired power project in northern China has partially gone into operation after a 1,000-megawatt unit began generating electricity in late December. Its operator said that the plant – described by Reuters as “giant” – is the largest coal-fired power project currently under construction in China.

    China has absolutely no intention of stopping burning coal for the foreseeable future or crippling itself economically. And yes it's ramping up renewables where possible to increase even further its industrial and manufacturing base and offsetting one against the others. So yeah while various greens twitter on about how great China is doing, China is laughing in our faces.

    You say.

    "If that’s the case we should be paying China for all the manufacturers they have"

    You know what we should do with all Chinese goods? We should boycott them like we've done with Russia.

    As for Irish agricultural produce - the absolute majority of that as food goes to our trading partners in Europe. We help feed other European countries who in turn slap Ireland for producing that food. That needs to change. Ireland is part of the EU. China is not.

    China and its efforts to single handedly to wreck havoc on the worlds climate can go fcuk themselves.

     And if you're going to handwave all those facts by predictablely using the same old bs phrases "ranting, rambling, I don't know why" etc

    Then don't bother.

    Post edited by Mecanudo on


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    5million Gwh increase in usage in 10 years, while Ireland has been falling since 2000.

    Don't think he read the page ,just the headline



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78




  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia




  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Bullsh1t because I've been in one of these houses



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Not gonna bother entertaining this complete red herring argument. My point was that people can build passive houses for much less than 1.3 million.

    Scanhomes are a perfectly legitimate construction company and are fully compliant with all of our planning regulations

    The houses are perfectly comfortable and suitable for the average family. They may not be as big as a house you could build for the same price if you cut corners on energy efficiency but the trend for McMansions is ridiculous IMO



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    I know of someone who built one like the picture, they had to build brick around it and a few other additions, their basically a variation on the old demountable dwellings the council used to put up for old people when their existing house became uninhabitable. What we looking at? 20-25 years till it falls in on itself?



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