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Ukrainian refugees in Ireland - Megathread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,012 ✭✭✭eggy81


    So they are entitled to citizenship because their country has been invaded?



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Ukrainian refugees are not getting citizenship FFS. 🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,026 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Talk about flip flopping.

    You start off because I said Ukrainians weren't like "normal refugees"

    You eventually agree that they are totally different and then claim that this is what you have said all along!

    Wow



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,012 ✭✭✭eggy81


    They’re getting it in every way bar the title.



  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭pluckyplucky


    There was some story posted a bit back about a woman who threw herself in the Liffey because she couldn't stand living in hostels anymore. She was rescued, at least.


    That's one extreme, but all those people trapped in the housing/rent crisis, waiting on medical care, trying to squeeze children into bursting schools, trying to pay creche costs, energy costs, transport costs and so on, must also be seething. It's their money the government is spending, and it is being spent on everyone but them. A palpable thing.


    And you can see the type of society being created from the policies of these governments, the apparent double standard of how people are treated, the prioritisation of non-irish people over Irish people, by the supposed Irish leadership, in Ireland, doesn't wash well.


    It breeds resentment. It diminishes charity, it cripples community, togetherness, even general friendliness. Simply logical result. Who wants to live in a place like that?


    This apparent lunacy of the government (it isnt, it's purposeful) tells Irish people that they are on their own. A "batten down the hatches" attitude is developing across this nation, akin to survival instinct.


    It has gone on long enough, years upon years, and something needs to be done. Now.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,364 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    The houses are probably in Leitrim and places like that where we know most won’t accept an offer.


    And as I said already there has been vacant houses refurbished and given to the homeless etc for years now.


    This is a continuation.


    Usual anti everything and what about da Irish homelesssssss getting angry by not having all the facts in hand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,977 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    No flip flopping at all , if you go back and check , I was initially shocked by your "Normal Refugees " comment and your concerns about your state pension, the only wow is your rather odd interpretation of what a Refugee is. My entire point is about how those in DP are treated as opposed to Ukranian refugees, no flip flopping at all .

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Nobody in DP remains there with Zero entitlements. We have NGOs coming out of our ears, all aimed at establishing and defending refugee/migrant/minority group rights.. and they've been here a rather long time.

    The difference is that these applicants in DP don't have the same entitlements as the average Irish citizen.. and nor should they. Until their asylum claim (and subsequent appeals) are processed and ultimately approved. If they're not approved, the people should be entitled to nothing, and be grateful for anything they receive..

    Ukrainians are not being treated as normal refugees. They're being treated as something between refugee and AS. A special case. It is what it is.

    Oh, and before people go demanding the same treatment for all refugees, AS, or whatever, we still haven't established how the government is going to meet all their current promises (more will likely follow), and how much it's going to cost the taxpayer. All this charity, or whatever you want to call it, could easily shatter the Irish economy, by adding too much expenditure vs revenue (which dropped considerably during the covid years).



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,977 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    There's no anger , just bewilderment at this stage . I can't comment on people refusing offers but it may be true in a small number of cases , put aside the waiting list, what about the 9k in emergency accommodation of which 2.7k are children 🤔

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,977 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Again, a large percentage have had their applications processed and still remain in DP.

    I'm not advocating for entitlements simply pointing out the hypocrisy at play. But just on the actual point of someone in DP entitlements. My Zero entitlements is in reference to what is being offered to Ukranians, I've absolutely no issue with basic supports but do have an issue with inequality and Hypocrisy.

    They certainly get Accommodation, Meals , some medical benefit, they certainly don't get a PPS number, SW benefits or permission to work , indeed those who actually tried to get learner driver permits faced hurdles resulting in a case being brought to the high court and government loosing. They get a basic payment of around €38. 80 per week per adult and €29.80 per child SW payment.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭lucalux


    I just want to point out that even in sparsely populated counties, there are hundreds or thousands on those housing lists, there are people in emergency accommodation in those counties, there are people going into homelessness, and there are empty council houses.


    A lot of people would jump at the opportunity to live in rural Leitrim or similar.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,977 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 26,977 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    That photo really says it all really and MM is so deluded he just doesn't get how messed up his governments approach is.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Reality suggests they wouldn't. An acre in Leitrim is about 2 grand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 886 ✭✭✭bb12


    With everything that is going on at the moment, the only name which keeps coming to my mind is Peter Sutherland, the man whose goal seemed to be to flood Europe with migrants.

    I think people are mistaken when they are calling the government naive or clueless or looking for pats on the back from the EU. Events such as those happening right now do not happen by chance but are strictly co-ordinated. It's more likely that the Irish and other eu govs in the EU have been told they must take in however many refugees from the high command.

    They can easily sell it to their populations under the guise of being the good guys, giving a helping hand to those in need...and that storyline is obviously being swallowed up by the electorate here hook, line and sinker.

    On another level, the country is supplying itself with a lot of cheap labour and more dilution of it's nationalistic identity. As Sutherland said in an interview “we should seek a society and identity defined by its values, not by its sense of nationality. We have had enough tribalism on this island.” 

    And this all just leads to more transfer of wealth...the gov will use the taxpayer money to give to vulture funds to buy houses or ask them to build more. more irish tax money gone poof into the clouds.

    and big business will be delighted that they can still keeping offering zero hour minimum wage contracts because suddenly there's a new glut of people available for those jobs

    inevitably further down the road there will be tensions arising between the native population and the new immigrants over perceived injustices, whether they be accurate or not...but sure the government will love that...will keep the population busy knawing at each other and not noticing what they are getting up to in the background.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Plus, in regards to social housing in Leitrim, Roscommon, Cavan etc and other sparsely populated areas. The provision of social housing in those locations are prohibited solely to inhabitants of those counties in the first place.

    Someone from Dublin cannot jump on the queue for Roscommon and likewise someone currently living and working in Galway cannot opt for the housing list for Leitrim so it's kinda unfair to say Dubs or people from other high density urban areas won't move to lovely Leitrim or Cavan.

    They can't unless they want to move jobs etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Kiefer's dad orchestrated Russia invading Ukraine?

    Fúcking hell, who else knows about this?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,012 ✭✭✭eggy81


    They have medical cards, a pps number, a right to housing can work, a right to schooling. Maybe more than that. What have I got of benefit to me from my taxes that they don’t have apart from the right to vote in the next shower of incompetence.

    what other countries are granting these rights on the incoming Ukrainian refugees.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    They have a temporary right to all them.

    No Ukrainian Refugees are being offered citizenship, it's not my opinion, it's a fact.

    Time to move on.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,977 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I lived in Leitrim, actually worked there for a while and its a fabulous county. I now live in very rural Laois (20 years) yes perhaps we don't have the amenities, relative ease to services or public Transport. An agricultural Acre is vastly different to an Acre with full planning permission. But as you quote €2k for an acre in Leitrim (probably a lot more I'd wager now), 12 acres of Shyte, hilly grazing land right be side me and will never get planning just sold for €16k an acre at auction, not including fee's.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 513 ✭✭✭The DayDream


    I'm a single man and can't find anywhere to live so this is more than a bit annoying. And I've always been one for charity but the housing crisis has changed that for me especially on this issue.

    The town I live in there literally isn't even an apartment available to rent. I work full time, I'm in my 30s. The last house I was in the landlord sold up and turfed us out and this town doesn't have a college and is quite rural, so there aren't any house shares or rooms available either, so I've had to move into my mother's house which I'm way too old for.

    The rise in rents and inflation means I was actually better off financially in my 20s than I am now - and now I can't even live independently as there is no 1 BR apartments (or any flats at all) anywhere near where I work. Tbh I'm too old for house shares now too but i stuck at the last one as there was no other options.

    I'd gladly take a free house in Leitrim or anywhere. But as a single person forget it, you get nothing and can afford nothing either unless you're on about double my wage or want to share with strangers.

    I actually served a few refugees at my work last week. At my job we sell a product you can get under the medical card. None of them had one yet but they got it all free anyway. And they didn't look struggling in any way, all brand new Nike and Adidas clobber, diesel jeans etc. And they werent all women and children either, one of them was a man about 6 foot 4 in his 30s - were they not meant to be staying there to fight (not that I blame him for getting out if he could.)

    I don't get why we are giving away so much. We wouldn't get it from any eastern europe country, would we? And they're not even in the EU.

    Put them up in hotels for a bit, fine. But giving them housing that someone working and paying taxes can't even afford is boiling my blood. And I am generally pretty left wing. I'm drawing the line at giving away houses though, when I am sitting here wondering where I can live, I already know I can never own a house, and I'm a working Irish born citizen - it isn't right.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭lucalux


    Can you build a home on an acre, willy nilly, or do you need savings, mortgage, money and planning permission?

    Or what's the relevance of the acre price?

    As Fann Linn said, you can't just pick and choose a county, you're on the housing list in one, and tied to one. It's a difficult process to move counties generally speaking, and most times you lose your time spent on the first list.

    People in Cavan, Roscommon, Leitrim, could be offered those houses if they were taken of the voids list and refurbished to be brought back into the housing stock.

    The point is the councils haven't to this date been focused on utilising all of their assets in order to house people who need help, stability and a place to live.

    They will now though apparently.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,012 ✭✭✭eggy81


    this will come up again in a few years and we’ll see how many are citizens or aiming to become citizens then. You know it’ll happen but won’t admit it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Same as that for myself accommodation wise. At this stage I've tried several different counties, and nearly every county is dry. I was even willing to pay far more than I should to rent in a certain tourist hotpot, and out of all the places I tried, and we're talking 30 to 40 different properties, I only managed to get one viewing. I don't think your average person who has the security of a home really gets how bad the situation is, and it's only going to get worse too.

    Post edited by TomTomTim on

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,152 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Speaking of remedial views of reality and selective amnesia...

    2015 saw the largest movement of refugees into Europe since WW2. Among the usual chancers were a huge number of Syrians fleeing the war there. Over six and a half million have left because of that war. A war that was supported and pushed along by the same "mass murdering pension aged lunatic" that flattened that nation, never mind the chemical weapons which are apparently a step too far. If anyone had suggested that neighbouring countries were being flooded, that this was a present threat to the future of Europe, many of the usual crawthumpers would have been out in force, horrified by the pic of the dead child on a Greek beach, a dead child that bugger all of the same crawthumpers could name, at the time or now.

    And even with all that breast beating, how many Syrians did we take in over the decade from 2011 to today? 3000, 1500 of them kids. And no, there isn't a zero missing. And they all jumped through the usual hoops and checks to get and stay here. Not for them just show up at the airport unchecked and get free medical cards, full social support, driving licences et al. Yet this time the existential threat is so great we've decided to bring in near ten times that number with no cap in sight?

    There's a double standard in play alright.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,010 ✭✭✭✭Boggles



    Okay, come back to me in a few years so. 👍️



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,012 ✭✭✭eggy81




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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,977 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I hear you and can fully appreciate how your feeling.

    I raised the issue about these apparent Medical Cards being lashed out and pointed out few if any have actually been processed, of course I got slapped down over that but you've confirmed what I and others have been saying.

    I'm single myself, purchased a cottage in very rural Laois, small mortgage remaining and I just honestly don't know how people like yourself and young couples with children etc cope with the High Rents. Easy for me to say but I do hope things will improve for you 😉

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




This discussion has been closed.
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