Russia - threadbanned users in OP

There's nothing mysterious. They slipped on the stairs, fell out the window, and their neck got caught in a rope that happened to be hanging on an apple tree in the garden.

The main issues for me with Poland and even more so Hungary are their unacceptable democratic backsliding. The EU has to and I am sure will make sure cast iron guarantees and clauses against that happening are part of any future accession treaties for any country coming into the EU be it Ukraine or otherwise.

Do the eastern European countries currently in the EU have many economic and structural issues including Poland absolutely they do. But that is to be expected after they were occupied by the former Russian Empire/USSR for 50 odd years. It is going to take them time. Look at us economically and structurally when we got into the EU. We were getting massive hand outs from Brussels for many years and now have progressed and are actually a net contributor to the EU budget.

I just went to the Express.co.uk link, holy f*

What an absolute scarefest of a rag, its actually Jarring to read. Each headline is Disaster, Horror, nightmare, Man kicked to death, food shortage crisis, death, illness, disease, rage, fear, crime, paedophile.

Jaysus if you were reading that every day you wouldnt leave the house.

No wonder they voted for Brexit.

Sorry about the sources, I just used two handy links to confirm the story, other sources have the same story.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Druzhba+oil+depot

None of which are credible.

Well it took us 40 odd years of being an EU member to become a net contributor so I am sure it will take a fair while yet. I would disagree with you as regards to the opinions of other eastern European EU member states opinions about Ukraine. The Eastern European EU countries have largely supported Ukraine getting membership quickly. Now that is not going to happen but a normal lengthy accession process seems reasonable to me and I think that is what we will see. It will probably be about 10 years or so as it was with Poland after they applied before Ukraine officially becomes part of the EU but I do think that is what we will see.

As for the whole "with us or against us mentality" I think there is some justification for that in the here and now in the sense that IMHO what we are seeing is an existential threat not just to Ukraine but to democracy and free and open societies in general IMHO.

Ohh matron, some Germans it seems don't like to be reminded of their past.

The past where they decided to engage in industrialised genocide.

We forget the past at our peril.

Ah fecking hell you never qualified that.

Also for the ones here who want to forget the past, it should be noted the Nazis just weren't Hitler and in his inner sanctum, nor the likes of just the SS and Gestapo.

Most of atrocities weren't even dreamt up by Hitler nor even Himmler or the likes of Heydrich, Eichmann, etc.

There were quite a lot of ordinary Germans quite happy to get down and dirty so to speak.

Of course after the war and up to this day it is played out that it was only some, it was only those awful SS, etc.

There were the good Germans like the much lauded von stauffenberg, who coincidently turned on Hitler when things were going wrong on the battlefield.

Ennis, Shannon you say.

Clare, enough said.

You do know that there are thick ignorant people everywhere, every country in the world.

It is something you can be guaranteed. Also you can meet nice people in most countries.

But I do acknowledge the Germans are known for forming orderly queues.

Hell the Germans even managed to organise quite a lot of them in Poland from 43 to 44.

Every wonder where that old stereotype of Germans leaving towels on sun-loungers started.

BTW my point about treating most Germans of the 1940s as the enemy of right thinking people, of democracy holds today where we must think of the vast majority of Russians as our enemy.

Putin and his cronies on their own could not organise this, Putin and his cronies are not the ones actually doing the slaughtering of people and raping of women and girls in Ukraine.

Putin and his cronies are not the ones taking part in parades in European countries.

Putin and his cronies are being enabled and backed by a sizable chunk of Russians.

LOL. Reminds me of when I was in holidaying in Thailand a few years back and there were a lot of Russians at the resort I was at.

Was having a chat with the local barman minding the poolside bar whom made the comment to me 'Russians are the new Germans'.

Still holds true...

No, around 80% of Russian oil imports to Europe are delivered by tankers coming mainly from the Baltic.

I am just very pessimistic perhaps. I don't believe Poland or Hungary will ever be net contributors. I don't believe they entered the eu in good faith. They seem to be interested in the financial benefits and none of the social responsibilities. Why will this change? I think that eastern block countries that have lived in a kind of quid pro quo culture for so long will find it hard to evolve to a true values driven society rather than pure transactional motives. Ok given enough time anything can change but like we are ready to take on another massive hugely traumatized country?

You said you disagreed with me on the opinions of eastern eu states but I didn't mention eastern states specifically, I feel like you might find western eu states that will hesitate to support further expansion and who regret the loss of the UK (even though they historically resent them and compete with them) , they know they have lost a social leader there in line with their western values.

I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it.

Yeah, I don't think that Ukraine should be allowed to join up too fast. Whatever can be done to deepen links between the EU and Ukraine like with the DCFTA in the meantime, though, but the EU needs to be careful when allowing countries to join that they're not going to tip the cultural and economic balance of the union that makes it permanently divided and fighting with itself and constantly putting out fires.

Peak 80's! Memories of a fantastically wasted youth :D