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Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

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    #12092
    Brucie Bonus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118972361#Comment_118972361

    Claiming the criticism is from 'the online SF army' is quite Trumpian.

    Trump being the former president our hero called Clare County Council for in the hopes of doing said president a solid.



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    #12093
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,868 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118973420#Comment_118973420

    Every single one of the examples you give is tangible.



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    #12094
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,868 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118973597#Comment_118973597

    Firstly, the Cabinet document is not law.

    Secondly, the document was not a government document to which the Cabinet Handbook applies, as it was already in the possession of the IMO.

    (Note: any accompanying Government Memo would be a government document, but not the negotiated document).

    This was already explained months ago, yet posters keep repeating discredited nonsense as if it was some gotcha moment.



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    #12095
    brokenangel
    Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118973853#Comment_118973853

    Are you still claiming the DPP are “factually incorrect “ in the descriptions of what they do?


    Yes confidential documents can be shared. If they couldn’t then how could Leo have got it in first place, or anyone after the person wrote it.



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    #12096
    notsocutehoor
    Registered Users Posts: 481 ✭✭notsocutehoor


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118974653#Comment_118974653

    So any document marked 'Confidential/not for circulation' can be circulated to all and sundry, can I ask what would be the point of marking any document 'Confidential/not for circulation'.

    Edit: Why was there a Garda investigation carried out on Varadkar if there is no problem circulating documents marked 'Confidential/not for circulation' to all and sundry

    On the first one I'm still leaving it with you to figure out



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    #12097
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The Garda investigation was on foot of a complaint made

    We're back to repetition galore in this thread again

    Orchestrated probably



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    #12098
    notsocutehoor
    Registered Users Posts: 481 ✭✭notsocutehoor


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118975028#Comment_118975028

    We sure are, but when unusual statements are made tis hard not to challenge them.

    And to be fair to you you are a fair hand at the auld sh1te repetition yourself (and thats just from what I've seen over the last 2 days). What exactly was the complaint, Im assuming it had nothing to do with leaking a document marked 'Confidential/not for circulation' as it now appears that anybody can leak any auld document marked 'Confidential/not for circulation' to all and sundry as per your buddy above



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    #12099
    brokenangel
    Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118974983#Comment_118974983

    Was the document "circulated to all and sundry"? I never heard that it was and I certainly never received a copy. So that statement is incorrect

    A complaint was made, the Gardai have to investigate. plenty of information available from online

    As I already said, you should take that helicopter out again.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118975060#Comment_118975060

    As posted above, this statement is a pile of .........

    as it now appears that anybody can leak any auld document marked 'Confidential/not for circulation' to all and sundry as per your buddy above



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    #12100
    notsocutehoor
    Registered Users Posts: 481 ✭✭notsocutehoor


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118975108#Comment_118975108

    You posted above, Yes confidential documents can be shared, can you explain that to me please, I feel I must be getting denser.



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    #12101
    Brucie Bonus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    The IMO were a party to the confidential document. They helped draft it. Their having access doesn't mean diddly as regards any confidentiality.

    We do know Varadkar passed it to his friend the then head of a rival union, not invited to the talks, and without the permission or knowledge of the dept. of health or IMO.

    The DPP will come to a conclusion regarding any criminality.



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    #12102
    brokenangel
    Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118975131#Comment_118975131

    I suggest you read all the posts which have already clarified this including my own.

    Can you clarify about "circulated to all and sundry"?



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    #12103
    notsocutehoor
    Registered Users Posts: 481 ✭✭notsocutehoor


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118975173#Comment_118975173

    Ah c'mon you came out with the sh1te, gimme a break asking me to read thru 405 pages of mostly political crap.

    Of course I can, at least in the context I meant it, and more than delighted to help you out. By circulated to all and sundry I mean anybody, like me, you, the dog named boo, and anybody else who might fancy having a goo at it.

    Now for your explanation of Yes confidential documents can be shared, it doesn't have to be a literary masterpiece



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    #12104
    skimpydoo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,914 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    Let's get down to brass tacks. Can documents classed as confidential be shared? Can said documents be shared with unions not involved in negotiations?



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    #12105
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,868 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118975060#Comment_118975060

    Nobody ever said that. What has been said is that marking a document Confidential/not for circulation does not necessarily impose any special status on it, and it can still be circulated to certain people.

    Think about it. If I write a document and mark it confidential/not for circulation, your position is that I cannot show it to my boss or to a co-worker or to anyone, the document remain forever unseen. That is an absurdity, but it is the logic of what you are saying.



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    #12106
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,868 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118975230#Comment_118975230

    Yes to both, and I have given examples many times on this thread of where this has happened.



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    #12107
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,868 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118975149#Comment_118975149

    Except it does mean something.

    Government documents are covered by the Cabinet Handbook. An agreement with the IMO is by definition not a government document, as a private entity also has access to the document.

    The accompanying memo to government, which would explain the background, the government negotiation approach, how much it will cost, whether it is a good or bad deal etc. etc. IS a confidential government document, but the agreement itself IS NOT.



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    #12108
    notsocutehoor
    Registered Users Posts: 481 ✭✭notsocutehoor


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118975348#Comment_118975348

    Are you typing on behalf of Marine Player?

    Sorry, I'm after reading your post, and you're right it is absurd



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    #12109
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118975230#Comment_118975230

    It would seem quite obvious to me,that the members of nagp known they were not to have access to this document anyway


    Quite why some lemmings,wish to gaslight public into thinking leaking confidential state documents is a non-issue is beyond me,any normal country and its years in jail would be looked at....in ireland,its cheerlead by media and 33% of population,bizzare stuff really



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    #12110
    jmcc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭jmcc


    It is funny to see FG's Pound-shop Putin propaganda effort about there being nothing to see. Then there was a Garda criminal investiation and a file being submitted to the DPP. That, in the clown world of FG propaganda, is meaningless because FG's leader has not done and cannot do anything wrong.

    If the DPP declines to go ahead with a prosecution then there will be claims of political favouritism and Varadkar's leadership of FG will be even more tainted thant it is already. A prosecution will mean that Varadkar may be an unacceptable candidate for taoiseach. There is a possibility of FG, FF and Green TDs suddenly developing a backbone and not voting for him as it could put their own careers as TDs in jeopardy.

    If there was nothing to see, as FG's Pound-shop Putin propaganda so diligently assured everyone, there would have been no file submitted to the DPP. The "no laws were broken" line also collapsed as soon as the file was submitted to the DPP. FG propaganda now focuses on the lack of a Garda recommendation on the submitted file. This is a political timebomb that has been passed from the Gardai to the DPP. Will the DPP decide to prosecute? We don't know yet. Prosecution or no prosecution, FG's reputation for being the party of law and order has been destroyed. It may have to dispose of Varadkar as leader before December.

    Regards...jmcc

    Post edited by jmcc on


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    #12111
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118972361#Comment_118972361

    How can it be an allegation,the blokes admitted to it in the dail,even going as far as apoligising?



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    #12112
    Brucie Bonus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118975367#Comment_118975367

    It was not for public consumption. Thats what we know. I don't claim to know what does and doesn't constitute a government document.

    It was regarding the confidential and private negotiation between the IMO and dept. of health, which as I say, Varadkar passed it to his friend without the knowledge or approval of the parties concerned. Be it a government document, by the definition or back of a beer mat.



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    #12113
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,868 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118975460#Comment_118975460

    Not for public consumption doesn't mean it couldn't be shared with limited others.

    Varadkar is the party concerned.

    We have been through this before many times, and it has been explained many times to you.



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    #12114
    skimpydoo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,914 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118975555#Comment_118975555

    Limited others does not include a union that was not involved in negotiations.



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    #12115
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118975580#Comment_118975580

    Meanwhile back on planet earth,the document was stamped not for circulation,and says zero about public consumption


    Quite why someone who is blowing smoke up peoples hole,proclaiming emselves an expert,can get basic details like this wrong,can only lead to one conclusion



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    #12116
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118975443#Comment_118975443


    O marks for the SF/pierse Doherty on morning Ireland appreciation society scroll there,it's the same as the last one

    New material needed

    As far as I know Leo or any member of government weren't out defending Putin up to a month before he invaded Ukraine unlike the political party being actively supported by the promoters of this story,who in further evidence of their lack of scruples are actively questioning the DPP's pedigree ahead of their farce I expect being exposed



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    #12117
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118974602#Comment_118974602

    No they are not.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118974625#Comment_118974625

    It was not discredited. Somebody here disputed it, and it was disputed back at them.

    To say something is marked confidential and can be shared with whomever one wants, and ignore both the cabinet handbook and the big red stamp is nonsense.

    What would be the point in marking anything confidential, or even having rules?



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    #12118
    Brucie Bonus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118975555#Comment_118975555

    I would suggest the IMO's rival union who were not invited, might not fall into the okay 'limited others'.

    Varadkar was the government leader, but it wasn't a government document right?

    He passed it on knowing health and the IMO weren't passing it to his friend union. What ever way you paint it, he passed a confidential document to a party who were rival and not invited.

    Yes. If you keep going back and making the same claims, so the same disputes arise.

    IMO Varadkar abused the trust the IMO gave government/dept. of health.



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    #12119
    skimpydoo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,914 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118975685#Comment_118975685

    It is also worth noting that the union Leo's pal was the head of closed down later the same year.



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    #12120
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Its laughable to suggest a majority of the doctors not in the IMO who needed to sign up to a gp contract for it to be a success wouldn't be regarded as interested parties

    Its the measure of this farce



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    #12121
    brokenangel
    Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118975443#Comment_118975443

    Not sure why you keep mentioning Putin in a post about Leo Varadkar?

    I already pointed to the document by the DPP when it says that a file be sent to the DPP and not be acted on. So this stuff which was started online yesterday by the likes of Paddy Cosgrove is just wrong. I would suggest find a better source for information. Especially if you have an issue with Putin.



This discussion has been closed.
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