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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    If I had a euro for everyone time someone posts online and suddenly you have a "I know someone"

    Why would it "falls in on itself"? old sheds with no foundations and very little support on roofs are still standing today.

    You do know most houses built now are timber frame. Once the house is built correctly it will last



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Old sheds are usually built with six inch concrete blocks not a few sheets of marine ply, timberframe with a block outer, Akrasia's brochure shows a pre-fab type unit,



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo



    You do know most houses built now are timber frame.

    Incorrect. What's with the misinformation, when stuff like that can be easily checked?

    According to the data from the CSO - In 2019, 27% of houses built using timber frames.

    Afaik Timber frames houses have an estimated lifespan of between 50-60 years. The big problem is rot. And with the climate in Ireland that is a known issue

    Timber used in construction must meet specific requirements in order to achieve this level of life expectancy, with the additional requirement that the timber should be kept below 22% moisture content for the life of the building

    Any water ingress through rupture of the waterproof membranes or through flooding or roof damage will considerably reduce the lifespan of a timber frame house.

    According to one government report - In the case of timber frame construction, there is currently a low level of awareness and knowledge in the construction industry in relation construction methods and the potential consequences of defects where timber frame housing is not built in accordance with appropriate codes.

    Tbh I'm not impressed. A lot do look more like sheds imho.




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Green posters don't seem to grasp that if a site costs a large amount no one is going to build a one room chalet on it, their government partners pushed up site prices, they have accept that the McMansions as they call them,mostly very average houses are the result of policies they pushed and supported, surprised the Greens haven't abandoned living in houses and built Waco style compounds for themselves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    What are you talking about? so you spend a huge amount of money on a site and then spend another huge building a big house which is far too big and too expensive, yet that is the governments fault :-)

    And people wonder why the crash happens, why not build a house to the budget you have?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Property is typical viewed as an investment, even when it is intended to be a home. A small house on expensive land is not a great investment as many potential buyers would need to demolish the house and get planning permission for a bigger one. That is one reason why everyone goes way bigger than they need.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Good point.

    If you buy a gold bar as an investment, putting a turd on top of it is not going to increase the value. The cost of cleaning off the turd would decrease the value.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Anyone that builds a house too big for their needs is very silly. First off the cost of running that house will cost more than a house built to the size they need. Also no matter what house you build on a plot of land, if you plan to live in it for a significant period and then sell, the next person is going to make huge changes to it anyway. If at that stage they need a bigger house they will just extend.

    I have never heard of this before but if true then really some people are fools



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Of course some people are fools, that is beyond doubt.

    However, building massive extensions requires planning permission. No guarantee getting that. A big house on expensive land will always be worth a pile of money apart for those short periods of time at the bottom of a bust. Many do run into problems with maintenance costs in the long term.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    A big house on expensive lands doesn't mean a pile of money. The fact is someone with that type of money will have multiple options and a ugly pig of a house will sit for a long time as the costs to make it liveable will be higher than a smaller house you can make your mark on.

    I seen someone the other day who has built a 5,000 sq ft house. Hooked it up to a oil boiler, 3 years later and they are posting on a Solar PV group asking about solar and a heat pump to reduce heating costs. House is not air tight or anything. To heat with oil is costing a fortune.

    The advice given by majority was to shave off 2,000 sq ft if they want to reduce heating bills :-) Stick that house up to sell now and nobody will touch it because its will cost a fortune to heat as the owner is finding out, plus to upgrade to proper standard will mean 3 phase for the A2W plus trying to retro fit air tightness.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    I believe you previously posted that was pretty much your own experience where you moved from a smaller to a much larger house which is heated via an oil boiler plus coal?

    I believe you also said you don't use your solar for heat - may I ask are you planning on installing a heat pump and making the house air tight or?



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    They are based on the Scandinavian model on which 85% of their detached houses are constructed using prefabricated timber frames

    Are the people of Sweden living in shanty towns full of rotting collapsing sheds?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Yes I did, what exactly has that to do with anything? 🤔



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    The shower you linked to seem to have used a dog kennel as their base model , could the bawbags not get an iota of imagination, some Finnish examples,

    maybe your mates should resit their Junior cert technical drawing exams. Have you guys any imagination at all, Amish look fuking extrovert compared to the Green Dimiocracy



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Well to with what you posted above

    I seen someone the other day who has built a 5,000 sq ft house. Hooked it up to a oil boiler, 3 years later and they are posting on a Solar PV group asking about solar and a heat pump to reduce heating costs. House is not air tight or anything. To heat with oil is costing a fortune.

    The advice given by majority was to shave off 2,000 sq ft if they want to reduce heating bills :-) Stick that house up to sell now and nobody will touch it because its will cost a fortune to heat as the owner is finding out, plus to upgrade to proper standard will mean 3 phase for the A2W plus trying to retro fit air tightness.

    And I asked "may I ask are you planning on installing a heat pump and making the house air tight or?" as per advice given

    Fairly straightforward question I think.

    Post edited by Mecanudo on


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    First I already discussed this on the thread, hence why you have one small bit which based on previous you are asking so you can go off on one of your little rant post. No thanks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    It was a genuine question. So no discussion, just more "read the thread" 'rants" and other autoquotes again. Seriously why bother posting when you refuse to engage in any discussion?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    I was posting to someone else.

    It is utterly pointless trying to have a discussion with you as proved on multiple occasions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    So just attacking the poster? What's with that?

    Your logic is because you're posting in reply to someone else - then that makes other posters at fault for replying to your comments. Wtf?

    This is a discussion about " Green" policies are destroying the country.

    And generally where you post something - its quite likley others will ask you about it. Bizarrely you seem to think that your comments are akin to PMs.

    That's some level of game playing right there.

    I'll leave you at it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    You wont answer questions, and now you wont even discuss what you post.

    With that attitude why bother posting ?

    This is a discussion forum with a reply function. Not a propaganda leaflet drop.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Tbh I've just given up at this stage.

    The set standard throughhout the thread seems to be

    • OP posts a comment

    • Another poster replies to that comment

    • OP asks poster to explain what question has got to do with anything or wtte

    • The poster details question again

    •OP tells poster to 'read the thread / it's ready been answered' and accusses poster of "ranting / rambling" or similar

    • Poster refutes the attack

    • OP then inexplicably changes direction and say they're "posting to someone else" and ironically claim that it's "pointless trying to have a discussion" with the poster!

    🤷‍♂️



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    It seems as if that poster believes that anything they post should for some unexplained reason be taken as gospel without question. Rather bizarre imho on a discussion forum.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As I mentioned previously, it looks like the govt are quite happy for the fuss to be all about the small amount of turf being burned. If they can ban it, great, if they can reduce its usage, thats good too, and thats likely all they'll be able to do.

    Meanwhile, the smoky coal ban will be rolled out country-wide with barely a peep, score!




  • Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭Ceramic


    One of the big concerns I have is that we're signed up to both EU agreements and international treaties on reduction of emissions and we have done very little to get anywhere near achieving those. We won't tackle agricultural emissions as it's too politically sensitive and there isn't a democratic will do so. Effectively that means we're going to be buying a lot of carbon credits and paying big fines which means that we will quite likely be producing beef and milk at a loss when you look at the overall economic impact of it.

    The state's going to be buying those credits / paying those fines, or they'll be utterly crucifying other sectors, households, the energy sector, transport etc with levies to fund them. People keep going on about industry - we don't really have very many examples of high pollution / high CO2 energy intensive industries other than Irish Cement and Aughinish alumina, every other big emitter is an electrical generation station.

    Also I don't understand how deep retrofits of homes can achieve scale. They're too expensive and even if we had unlimited money to do them, there won't be sufficient construction workers to do them in anything like a reasonable time scale. You could be looking at 30+ years. It's a worthwhile cause, but it's not going to achieve a sudden reduction in CO2 emissions. It's more of a longterm and slow project, and our housing is particularly challenging as the vast majority of it is low density and individual buildings.

    It's a democratic choice though and we are seemingly willing to pay those fines and not deal with the issues.

    We also haven't moved rapidly on public transport and we are still dragging our feet on sustainable development. So, I don't know exactly what the plan is... pay huge fines and just suck it up somehow while being an international disgrace? Seems to be where we're headed.

    There's one large and several smaller elephants in the room and we are not prepared to acknowledge they exist.

    I'm genuinely not impressed with some of the high profile Greens here, as they're spending all their time chasing gimmicky topics or whatever's the buzz word online e.g. chasing aircraft emissions or going on and on about cars, when we've no public transit options and scattered housing. EVs are going to have to be a big part of the mix here, there's not much point in being anti-car unless you plan to demolish most of the houses in the country, which is simply not possible or desirable. WE're going to have to make a lot of scattered housing sustainable somehow and that means EVs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,689 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Small amount of turf being burned???

    Look at the problems that the EPA have in dealing with illegal activity by those extracting peat and turf. Thankfully, the courts have ruled in the EPA's favour and hopefully the new bans that Eamon Ryan is bringing in will stop this kind of activity.

    Lies are being told that the ban is about small farmers cutting turf for their neighbours. This article shows clearly that it is about a lot more than that.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well yes and no, to all of your points. Its complicated basically.

    We are tackling argi emissions, but not to a high enough degree which means all other sectors have to take a lot more pain. I think its 23% reduction for agri which is far, FAR too low. Expect that to go a lot higher in future carbon budgets/climate action plans though as other sectorsd will have less and less scope for reductions as time (and progress) goes on

    As for PT, we are getting there, but it takes time. Time to order and build buses, design routes, staff appropriately etc. Its slow going and it should be faster but it is being worked on. To give an example, electric buses are starting to come on stream this year but it will take several years to fully replace the whole BE/DB fleets. In addition, routes are being implemented in a lot of smaller towns now to make it more viable to not need a car to get around.

    One of the best ways we can avoid the likes of carbon credit costs, is by rewetting a large number of bogs asap. Even without being cut, if they are drained, they are massive sources of carbon. They are the lowest of low hanging fruit in terms of cutting emissions.

    I agree with your overall premise though, we need to be doing a lot more, however, as can be seen even in this thread, there are many who are resistant to change and would rather the status quo remain due to various vested interests.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    They've made coal that expensive that its worth smuggling across the border, even your BFF Brokenangle is at it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Ryan isn't an honest broker as minister for the environment, either reshuffle him to health or social welfare or remove him from any ministry,



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    And yet we had some here banging the peat drum with barely a whisper about coal. Even though we burn more than twice as much coal as turf.

    As was said previously, the greens seem to favour going after low hanging fruit and making a meal of it. Knowing full well if they tried that shite in their voter areas - they'd get shafted. So they leave that to others unsurprisingly.

    Post edited by Mecanudo on


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