The Tipperary GAA Discussion Thread

Tommy Dunne won't be near the game ? All you do is make stuff up.

Supporting Limerick and Clare and sniping at Tipp? Grow up and don't be calling for a manager's head when you clearly don't know what's going on. That kind of bitterness will eat you alive.

Are tipperary definitely out of the championship

A safe bet, I'd say. I don't see a Munster miracle match coming for Tipp.

Apart from Quigley most of those players played games under Sheedy - most of them in league and multiple championship games. And were on the squad for years. Including starts and scoring substitute appearances in the all-ireland semi and all-ireland final of 2019. So, you'll have to go to more games to get up to speed. You're talking nonsense.

I watched it back, for my sins. I will start by echoing what I have heard these last few days. As dark a day since the 2012 semi final and dont know whats coming next.

Where it was lost? Mostly by ourselves with a big shovel of bad luck and some bad refereeing thrown into the mix.

I though we actually played the ball through the lines ok for the first 20 minutes barring we allowed our full back line be exposed and hit too many wides. We found ourselves 2-5 to 0-4 down and I sat there Sunday and again last night wondering how the hell did that happen. By 27 minutes it was 3-6 to 0-4, down by 11 and we had lost Quigley and McGrath. Game Over.

There was 3 things in our control that cost us the game.

1. Our setup and shape - we left too much space in front of our full back line, exposing them when we were playing against a big wind. Ronan should have been at 3 after Quigley went off, would probably have prevented the penalty happening. All poor side-line decisions.
2. Our shooting was way off - In the first 20 minutes, Noel McGrath, Brian Hogan, Ronan Maher, Mark Kehoe missed some long rangers, we hit the post from close range aswell. On a normal day you'd expect 0-2 from that, we got nothing. It was repeated at the start of the 2nd half, with 5 poor misses after Brownes goal when we needed it. We also got white line fever a number of times in the 2nd half. Realistically, on a normal day I would have expected us to have 1-5 from all those misses and then your back in the mix even playing poorly. We got nothing.
3. Intensity - 2nd best to all rucks, 2nd best to breaking balls, work rate lower than Clares. This was the most disappointing aspect of all. Fair play to Clare here, this was what won them the game, without them being brilliant.

What was out of our control was poor refereeing early on and just plain bad luck all year. And the timing of all of these hit us in the gut.

1. Hurley thrown to hook Forde or Kehoe in the first 2 minutes to have the score 1-0 to 0-3 and Clare full back on a yellow. There was also a 2nd possible hurley throw by Conlon a few minutes later.
2. Conlon not pulled for 8 to 10 steps for Clares 2nd goal.
3. Strike on John McGraths head during a high ball, no free or card given.
4. John McGrath injury.
5. James Quigley injury.

All of this happened inside the first 25 minutes and all at opportune times for Clare! It pushed Clare away from us and just deflated us completely.

With our current injury list, our fire power up front has been destroyed. Bubbles, Callanan, Bowe, McGrath injured, with the form of Forde and Morris poor. This makes the prospect of getting anything out of the last 2 games slim. Frankly, we need a miracle to get out of Munster. The most likely scenario for that to happen is a Cork win by 6 or 7 over Clare this weekend, a narrow but confidence building Tipp loss to a depleted Limerick by say 3, a Waterford win by 6 or 7 over Cork. Full strength Limerick and Waterford sides to open up against Clare beating them by 7 or 8 each and we beat Cork last day by 3 or 4. In that HIGHLY unlikely scenario, for many obvious reasons, we can come 3rd on 2 points but better scoring difference to Clare or Cork. I am usually a glass half full person, and even thats too much for me. Best I can hope for is no more injuries, and pride restoring performances against Limerick and Cork, with a chance to find ourselves and how we want to play. Hope for good minor and u20 runs for the remainder of the year. And for gods sake, a bit of luck.

And what can we do to buy a refereeing decision?! I have to have this moan again Im sorry but we cannot be this unlucky with big decisions at big times from referees can we? There has to be more to it than bad luck. We have 1 bad refereeing decision go our way and it feels like we have to pay for it for the next 2 years.

I genuinely feel those 3 refereeing calls in the first 20 minutes on Sunday played a part in how the game went. We would have still lost, playing as we did, and deserved to lose, but its the timing of them all that hurt us so much.

I also genuinely feel that the referee cost us the game against Waterford last week. He gave 3 very soft frees to Waterford in the 1st half. A ghost free to Bennett early to get him going, and two ridiculous calls against Heffernan and Flynn. This kept Waterford in touch and then the 2 goals early 2nd half, both should not have stood. Thats 2-3 in a game we lost by 0-4! Not even mentioning the Tommy Dunne incident and aftermath.

There was dodgy penalties given against us in the Waterford game last year and the Limerick game in 2020 at opportune times. Limerick game, we had closed the gap to 4 with the wind on our back and they get a penalty that should have been a free out. Waterford, again 4 in it and they get this soft penalty. Gleeson even drew a kick out after it and gets away with it. Waterford struggled from about the 50th to 65th minutes if I remember or even basically until injury time as we closed the gap back to 2, so the timing of that penalty was very important.

Munster final last year, Gillane instrumental in Limericks come back, a direct hand in 1-5 of their 3rd quarter come back, should not have been on the pitch. Flanagan, one of the worst tackles iv seen in years and he gets away with it.

Galway in 2020, Barrett red card for nothing turned the game for Galway, felt so much like deliberate payback for the 2019 final. And lets not forget the infamous 2019 semi final against Wexford where even without the Hawkeye stuff we had a perfectly good goal disallowed in the 1st half, a perfectly good goal disallowed in the 2nd half, Wexford get a goal thats a square ball and Paudi Maher targeted twice for steps because it was in the media and he didnt even take too many steps. Its unbelievable stuff.

Its probably just my blinkered bias, fine I'm a Tipp man on a Tipp forum, but I challenge anyone from another county to list off instances like the above, all in our last 10 championship matches. We get lads sent off for non existant fouls, other teams can leather us with hurleys and get away with it. We get penalties given against us for nothing yet other teams can throw hurleys at us to stop goals and get away with it. We get pulled for steps or little push backs coming out of defence, other teams slap hurleys off our face, or can take 10 steps, throw the ball, barge and the goals get given. Sometimes I feel like Frank Grimes from the Simpsons, am I the only one that can see this madness? That is a minimum 3 of our last 6 championship games where poor refereeing has probably decided the game against us. 2020 AIQF, 2021 Munster final, 2022 Munster Rd1.

Whats gone our way? The Heffernan thump against Wexford, Hogan red (which was 100% correct), and the Clare penalty last year? And we're still paying for them years later.

Thats my rant anyway.

Its hard to comphrend that people in tipperary may not see a championship match with tipperary of significance for Another year or maybe 13 months .considering we need a miracle to happen for us to claim 3rd spot ..its laughable to think that our numbers 1 sport here in Ireland ...gaa founded over 100 years ago and all that ..we are still making up the rules as we go along and chopping and changing the structure of competitions..a neighbours friend from USA. Thought it was a relatively néw sport.apon hearing of multiple rule changes and so on ..could not believe it when told it was our no 1 traditional sport for so long .that would not happen in other countries sports .base ball cricket..Australian football.??.to think. The counties Spend 3 months in the league for which for most is a competition to rest some players. Try new blood and other players on holidays or away..so all that for the main event. Where after two games in as many weeks. The main event Is over for one to 4 strong hold hurling counties..its laughable as John Mullane would say..I love me county...well the GAA hierarchy are making it harder for us to love our county never mind our hurling...its sickening

Kehoe, Browne, and Morris each got league and championship minutes, and scores, and an all-ireland medal in 2019.

Kehoe got a start in 2020 - blew it.

Cadell blew several chances and continues to blow them. Ditto Brian McGrath.

Byrne - got plenty of chances - discipline issues.

Morgan got plenty of chances in the league - wasn't strong enough to carry ball past his man in the league in 2020. Saw it myself. Has developed since.

Browne wasn't even hurling with a club for most of covid due to a club issue.

Bryan O'Mara was played and then got a long term injury.

Jerome Cahill opted off the panel after a significant amount of time was put into him.

Sheedy gave all these players chances and has built them the right way. Sheedy can't hurl for them nor can Bonnar.

You can blame Sheedy all you want. But it doesn't stack up. I've been at all games and seen their progression.

You're making up nonsense to suit your narrative. You have no examples to back it up because it's fluff.

You use Cork as an example of bringing through players? How're they going?

Tipp have three all-irelands since 2010. Much easier break into the Cork team. And like a lot of young players do, most of the Cork young players disappear after showing some form. Where's Jack o'Connor? Shane Kinston up and down like yo yo. And that's pretty much par for the course for the lot of them due to a lack of senior leadership on the team to bring them through.

Ultimately it's Tipp clubs and structures that bring players through. Plenty of players coming through. But it takes time. You'd be lucky to get two players from each minor team, year in, year out, to go on and make a serious career at senior. The exceptions are rare.

Easy for guys who want to make a name for themselves to talk about bringing young players in - another thing actually doing it.

Easy to be critical. Another thing to actually back it up.

You'd think Bonnar was hitting the puck outs, trying to win ruck ball, trying to catch a puck out, trying to stop defenders from clearing ball, trying to defend the space in front of the back line? Is Bonnar hitting septic wides? Is that his tactic, is it?

That's all on the players.

You can have all the tactics you want but if players are not prepared to fight, game over. Tipp didn't even put in a performance where I could consider tactics a problem because they weren't at the races at all.

Can you honestly say that tactics failed these players?

Anyone who was at the game would have noticed Noel McGrath and Dan McCormack in conversation with Bonnar several times in the first ten minutes. Noel must have went over three times at least. Now, I've no problem with that. Noel has been there, done that, bought the T-Shirt - in both codes. Dan has a lot of experience in every facet of the game too - in several positions, like Noel.

Don't tell me players didn't have a role in formation, shape, and reading that game...

That kind of complete collapse is not down to tactics or previous management.

No real player would make that excuse. They have to grasp the nettle and drive this on themselves. If I see heart and the fight in these players and no result - then we can discuss tactics.

Most players are 24/25 before they start to find their feet on a consistent basis at senior intercounty. That's the reality of the situation. Ronan Maher hit a lot of snap wides too - but he is learning a new role too. So I wouldn't point the finger at him. But he wasn't good.

One game? Nonsense.

What were the performances that year that made these players absolute certainties for the team? We handing out jerseys on potential, is it?

You're telling me that that Sheedy and Dunne and O'Shea who had hands in teams that won two all irelands and developed plenty of players throughout the last decade, couldn't develop talent? If they were good enough, they'd be on the field. Fact. They've been developed as well as they can.

Potential wins nothing, you must perform.

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11 or 12 minutes into The Hurling Pod- completely agree with Paul Murphy and Skehill: Attitude, attitude, attitude.

The Hurling Pod | Ep 10 | Limerick Beat Waterford | Clare Making Flying Start | Dublin Edge Wexford - YouTube

100% it was a rant. I wasnt right on Monday after that game. But everything I said is true.