Where do Irish professional rugby players come from?

The playing numbers in youths clubs and newer schools is far higher than before and increasing all the time. coaching standards improving as well with more people exposed to the game as well as attending coaching courses etc. top players are assessed more often and earlier so this will have impact on pro ranks. already has in places. the Provinces and IRFU are putting in processes to expand the playing pool. Leinster for example have built the Ken Wall centre of excellence in Donnybrook at the wesley end which is a high performance centre for sub academy players and those in clubs etc not in fee paying schools and are planning on building 4 more in each of the other 4 regions they use for player development.

Munster have a similar set up in Cork in Musgrave on top of the pros base/centre in UL and have partnered with Fethard town park which has a community 3G pitch and will be putting in Gym etc and this will help players in east of the province. they will be doing more in future in west/south west of province as well.

it just takes time. Waterford didnt have a player playing senior international rugby between Ben Cronin who won 2 caps in mid 90s and Jack O Donoghue. Very few pros from waterford in that time as well. Murray Kinsella was in Munster academy for a period. others in and around pro set up. Now theres Tom Ahern, Eoin O Connor. others were in academy, played abroad for period.

Coming from a background in coaching youths I think the Leinster system just pay lip service to the clubs. Highlight the Ciaran Frawleys Furlongs etc but really the system is working for them so why would they change it? Undoubtedly players with potential are falling through the gaps because the club system via regions are selecting players so young and filtering them down to Leinster youths etc late developers are being missed and when the club players (2-3 hrs coaching a week) are pitted against the schools players (10 hrs a week) the schools guys are bound to be miles ahead albeit with maybe a potential lower ceiling.

Also the schools players that develop later will still be in the schools system so can be picked up ala Brian O'Driscoll who was a sub in JCT team or something.

My own experince is that in the club system in a choice between size and skill, size is chsen more often than not and someone said to me you can't coach size.

Will Leinster choose to put more time and hence money into screening and coaching more club players. I can't see it happening when they can just rely on the schools to churn them out year after year. I'd wager anyone employed by IRFU that has aspirations for their child to play pro rugby is sending them to a private rugby school.

Stop the schools blocking access to the clubs for players. Most clubs don’t bother fielding after u-15 in Dublin.

Move the clubs season so it doesn’t clash with schools cup.

From my experience of the game reffing, coaching, etc Leinster do a lot more than pay lip service to clubs. They have to pick players at the age they do otherwise its too late. The development process starts with the development groups at under 15s before the Shane Horgan Cup at Under 16s which is a principal guide to the selection of the Leinster Youths squad for the season after at under 18s. They have Under 17 and 18s development squads as well for regions to keep an eye on others. Now id like if they had under 20 squads to assess others

the very top club players between their local school and their club can get lot more than 2-3 hours a week between gym and pitch work.

From reffing and coaching i dont think at all the club system will more often than not pick size over skill.

That's ridiculous. We'd lose so many and probably are. G.A.A and football have several times the players. What do rugby accomplish be this? There's some serious athletes playing G.A.A. if a schools player can't play for his club, he's probably going to play something else.

For me, the bit we are all missing here is how telling the Blackrock / Michaels stat is. 44 pro players coming from those two schools makes it statistically likely that we are turning average Athletes into elite rugby players. There is no reason why exceptional athletes (bar *very few* scholarships) should concentrate in those schools - particularly for St Michaels which in the lifetime of the current graduating class was not considered to have a particular rugby pedigree and therefore has no selection bias of incoming students. So we must conclude a reasonable portion of the pros they produce are pretty average athletes who are very well trained.

Irish Rugby should be striving to turn exceptional athletes into elite rugby players. At the moment we are favouring nuture over nature - but really we want both exceptional natural talent, exceptionally well nurtured. The base of the pyramid needs to be wider and the learnings we get from whatever it is they do in those rugby player factories need to be applied broadly.

It shouldnt be a cut off but for all too many it is. Because of systems in place.... Like if we were starting from scratch the current system would never be in place. I think we are seeing more of a view from provincial coaches that we need regional squads etc beyond 16/17. we really fail at 20s in all provinces bar Leinster. Munster used to have thriving 20s competitions for clubs outside the top few clubs but now unless you can field in a league with Con, Garryowen etc then you have little opportunity for regular competitive rugby which is absolutely f''''g ridiculous. Connacht have occasional 20s blitz days for the few clubs that want to play 20s but dont/cant/wont commit to playing division 2/3 of the Leinster JP Fanagan league

We do need to see more clubs fielding under 23 style teams in adult competitions like a few clubs in Leinster do

Schools players who play schools cup (and some SCT2) but beyond that when you are talking about rest theyre not. we need more integration of clubs and schools players throughout a players teenage years with some limitations be it the type of competition theyre allowed play etc but i think the very best clubs teams who by and large will have by under 16 and 18 have interpro players, regional players and also have many also training and playing in their school can more than compete against many schools players.

But as you well know syd. rightly or wrongly(totally wrongly IMO...) the vast majority of schools games especially beyond the SCT/JCT and the odd game at other levels in schools there is no team sheets/no official referee and everything else....

This shouldnt be allowed happen but all too often does.

Very fringe players can play with their club if they want to. In some cases schools make cases to stop them all depends on what level in school theyre at and numbers etc. its about player safety, stopping clubs just picking loads of schools players to play club competitions.

Schools players in theory should be getting more than enough rugby in the school season that they dont need too many more with a club. Like a schools cup player in a league school in Leinster will play 5 group games in league, up to 3 knockout games, a few friendlies prior to christmas and then will have christmas/new years friendlies and then they have vinnie murray or straight to the cup itself and possibly a plate run in either vinnie murray or cup if knocked out in first round.

You'd have to wonder what the % of lads that drop out of rugby and go on to other sports! It's strange that the clubs are like junior partners? The % of lads playing rugby in Connacht is probably pretty low. Most would be swinging a hurl or playing G.A.A.