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Far-right Le Pen closes in on Macron ahead of vote

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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    I wouldn't say a nail in the coffin. The swell of fascists has been suppressed for now. And this could be simply down to their money being focussed on the invasion in Ukraine.

    The level of abstention in France says it all. When given the choice between "more of the same" and a horrible racist piece of sh1t, the French people en masse went said, "Meh, Que Será, Será".

    European countries need to get their sh1t together on this. The neo-liberal policies that have been creeping in for the last few decades have left behind a younger middle-class group who are in real terms less well-off than their parents and finding themselves less and less represented in the political sphere. Politicians have been throwing them beans by pursuing social reforms, but that only goes so far when people can't put a roof over their heads.

    This leaves them wide open for exploitation by populists who find convenient scapegoats and promise easy answers.

    The EU as a whole needs to aggressively start rebalancing the financial situation. Crack down hard on property speculation. Higher taxes on high earners. ECB strategies to dampen inflation and improve access to funds for building homes. There are very basic and obvious reasons why younger voters are unhappy. The answers to those aren't easy, but they need to be done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Detritus70


    Isn't it just as well that the campaigns for Brexit and Trump weren't completely toxic, Kreml funded cesspits of lies, hate and intolerance...

    "I'm not a Trump supporter, but..." is the new "I'm not a racist, but...".



  • Registered Users Posts: 578 ✭✭✭VillageIdiot71


    It think that's all very sensible, except I wince at the "promise easy answers" line.

    I think the fault line (as you pick up in your last sentence) is around "easy for who". Governments are currently picking easy options, which work well for many.

    But, as you say, leave out an identifiable cohort, who then will seek political representation.

    Out of that process will come "answers" that are not only "not easy" for some, but potentially quite ugly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,330 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Politics has become a very strange place over the last few years. You have, in general, a very poor selection of soft conservative, neo liberal, mush like Macron operating in a lot of countries and the "alternative" protest vote has become, basically, cunts. Cunts like Trump, Bojo and Le Pen, who can get into power on the back of people's disillusionment with the "other side" and what they have to offer.

    Unfortunately the people who protest vote these dodgy bleeders into power don't stop to think that after their protest vote everyone has to deal with the fallout of that decision.

    I'm no fan of Macron, but it's certainly a good thing to see that Marine Le Pen failed. However, she didn't fail by much and, as you say, that should be a thing to worry about. I remember her piece of shit father very well and, all things considered, the apple didn't fall far from the tree.



  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭pluckyplucky


    The idea of a "protest vote" is patently ridiculous.


    Here kids, a choice of two doors. Keep walking through the left one and you get punched everytime without fail, but whatever you do, don't open that boogey-man right door, oh don't do that, nooooo, wouldn't want to do that! :P


    People want change from being punched in the face, as demonstrated by the fogies voting for macron, and the upswelling youth vote for Le pen.


    There's only one single take away from this particular vote that's worth knowing, and it's in the graphic below. Inevitability is coming.





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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,998 ✭✭✭conorhal


    For all their screeching about 'the far right' and 'populism', why does it never seem to occur to the detatched and deluded people we have in power, that if they don't want the plebs to vote for the next 'little mustache man' (or woman), perhaps they could just stop doing those things that are making people throw up their hands, throw caution to the wind, and say 'fine, I'll vote for the bloody nutter so, and a plague on all your houses!'



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,043 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Most people don't have much notion about the complexities of running a country and balancing all the needs. Politicians, no matter how "good" they are, will always have drawbacks and limitations in that regard. As such there's always criticism/blame to be levelled. Try to think of how many world leaders have succeeded in the last 20 years at staying above 50% in the polls, very few. Not because they are all "the same" but because the job itself has so many limitations and always has diminishing returns.

    Populists have found a way round that. They join the rabble and blame the current establishment for all the ills, claiming they will magically fix everything. Then when they do get into power, they just continue to blame the establishment ("deep state"), the media, etc to scapegoat the fact they aren't magically fixing all the problems

    The far right populists do the above, but they feverishly work to erode democracy in the process, always gravitating towards autocracy which is their natural state.

    Rinse, repeat.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,998 ✭✭✭conorhal


    There is no shortage of autocracy coming from those in charge now, it's hardly just a feature of the right.

    You're correct of course, some people expect magical or simple solutions to complex problems, but even the dumbest of folk know when it's raining and when someone is pissing down your back. You hardly need a political science degree to know that the state is not acting in your interests these days.

    The state has structured the economy solely in the interest of crony capitalism. People are not blind to the massive transfer of wealth that has been going on since 2008 from the working and middle class to the very, very few and I suspect half the appeal of populist candidates is not simply the belief that they will 'fix' this so much as it's an opportuninty to punish those picking your pocket and handing the cash to their friends. They are a brick through the establishments window and a warning shot across the bow which our politicians have decided to ignore.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,330 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Except they aren't "a brick through the establishment's window" are they? They are the establishment.

    The supreme stupidity of someone voting for the likes of Trump, say, who they think will tackle the establishment and work for the common man should be clear to all at this stage. A guy that shits on a golden toilet and lives in a tower in NYC and who gave tax breaks to billionaire jet owners is the guy that's going to fight the establishment on behalf of Joe Bloggs?

    Or take the likes of Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson...you couldn't get more establishment than him. He's the guy working class Tories think is going to do them the best deal?

    People voting that type into power as a means to have a go at the establishment has got to be one of the greatest depictions of irony that I can think of.



  • Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If people think that voting for populist politicians or anyone who is on the right would fix that, they need to give their head a wobble, as the evidence is already available from countries who did that corruption and cronyism just gets worse.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 348 ✭✭lizzyjane


    Some scenes in France this past week. The heavy handedness of Macrons thugs against French citizens the last few days in Paris is nothing short of sickening.


    Macron is scum.



  • Registered Users Posts: 348 ✭✭lizzyjane




  • Registered Users Posts: 29,099 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    nothing to do with macron, it is well known that french riot police are violent, that's just how they operate.

    you can be damn sure the same thing would happen if le pen was in power, in fact it would probably be a thousand times more violent.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    you can be damn sure the same thing would happen if le pen was in power, in fact it would probably be a thousand times more violent.

    Not you can't, this is just your own unsubstantiated fantasy.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,476 ✭✭✭francois


    The CRS have a violent history, the students involved in the 1968 protests can attest to that, in fact you will often hear the chant "CR-SS" at many demos once they appear



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,504 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    I wonder will he freeze the bank accounts of innocent protesters (like Trudeau) or will he continue to beat the s##t out of them while he passes an undemocratic law. The fascists are in full view now, they weren't who we were led to believe they were!!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    I never said they didn't? I was responding to his claims of it supposedly being sure to be worse under Le Pen

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 29,099 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    you can, the far right don't like protest unless it's them doing the protesting.

    see how the right to protest is being eroded in the uk as an example.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,099 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    unlikely given they aren't a threat to the state unlike the truck protesters who had to have their bank accounts frozen to protect the state and it's people.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,504 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    You arrest people who are a threat to the state and you put them on trial in the civilized world, you don't act in concert with private companies to freeze the bank accounts of protesters. That is authoritarian.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,099 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    the government act with banks to freeze bank accounts of criminals all the time, it's nothing new.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,303 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    How were they a threat to the state and it's people exactly?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,504 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Convicted criminals and tax defaulters.....not innocent protesters.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,099 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    they were violent and were spreading misinformation, disinformation and conspiracy theories during a pandemic.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,099 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    they were neither innocent or protesters.

    le pen and people of her politics are dangerous and must be prevented from being anywhere near power.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 348 ✭✭lizzyjane


    So it is ok for banks to freeze protesters accounts yet you are worried about peoples right to protest in the UK been curtailed?


    You are either for people protesting against government policy or your not which is it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,303 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Well they weren't, they were against mandatory vaccination (something the left would have been behind in the past) but ok, if you're happy for those powers to be used against people you don't agree with, then don't complain when it happens to ones you support. Personally I don't think governments should have the power to freeze personal bank accounts for protesting against their policies, whether I agree with them or not. It's a dangerous precedent



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