Wokeism of the day Revised Mod Note in OP and threadbanned users

Strumms · 26-04-2022 6:13pm

Virgin Atlantic TV add…. Female captain and erm African ‘ non binary ‘ cabin crew member with glittery eye shadow …

A Virgin press release “We currently do not offer the option for customers to make a booking as a gender other than male or female. However, Virgin Atlantic is committed to its support within the LGBT+ community and is looking into its booking processes and gender options for travel in the future,” says a spokesperson.

booking a simple airline flight is about to get a lot more erm, different….

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 26-04-2022 6:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118980369#Comment_118980369

I heard that the issue there is passports - booking has to be same gender as the passport and not all nations issue passports under "other" genders. Not 100% on that, so open to correction.

cdeb · 26-04-2022 7:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118980360#Comment_118980360

Is it a fact? How has this person transitioned exactly? By waking up one morning and deciding to?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 26-04-2022 7:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118980562#Comment_118980562

Technically, that's the start of the process. The rest usually involved informing people and hormone therapy.

cdeb · 26-04-2022 8:03pm

The start of the process?

So this person hasn't transitioned?

Do you typically say you've finished something just as you start it? Do you often declare things to be a fact when all available evidence points otherwise?

AckwelFoley · 26-04-2022 8:11pm

I don't give a ****. I'm never getting on that sh1t wagon of "people that menstrate"

And on a lighter note, I heard one of those "we are pregnant" **** on the radio over the weekend.

We are in our fcuk mate..I've done my bit. Its now hand holding and tissue dispensing for the rest of it

Cordell · 26-04-2022 8:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118980229#Comment_118980229

I do have the right. I choose not to.

BattleCorp · 26-04-2022 8:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118980586#Comment_118980586

Correct me if I'm wrong but hormone therapy isn't necessary to transition. Actually no medical intervention is necessary to transition. Self-determination is all that's needed in Ireland.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 26-04-2022 8:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118980781#Comment_118980781

Yes, not sure to be honest, depends on the individual transitioning.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118980828#Comment_118980828

Fair point, I may have picked you up wrong here. I mean, people can satirise an idea, sure; but actually tagetting individuals going about their lives and standing up for their rights by bullying them? Don't think "free speech your Honor!" will work in court if you say something slanderous or hateful (not sure what the law on hate speech is in Ireland).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118980861#Comment_118980861

Correct, point accepted; but my point was that it's just the start for some people who may go on to take hormones if they wish.

cdeb · 26-04-2022 9:04pm

"Yes, not sure to be honest, depends on the individual transitioning."

But I'm confused - you said for a fact that this person had transitioned. Now it seems that instead, they might just have woken up one morning and decided to be a woman. That's not quite the same thing as having a surgical operation and taking hormone therapy, is it? (Let's leave aside the fact that that doesn't actually change your sex - I think there can be a societal compromise at that point while acknowledging that such people have an unfair advantage which should bar them from competing in women's sports. But that's another thread)

And after all that, you wonder why the article is being criticised?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 26-04-2022 9:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981073#Comment_118981073

Sorry, I wasn;t clear, those were three answers to your questions.

1 - you asked "start of the process" - yes.

2 - so the person hasn't transitioned - not sure. After reading what BattleCorp wrote, apparently that is enough to transition.

3 - I don;t declare anything for other individuals, that's up to them to decide.

The newspaper article stated for a fact that she transitioned. Take it up with them if you disagree.

Thompson was already on the sex offenders’ register before she had come out as trans when she was legally named Andrew McNab.

cdeb · 26-04-2022 9:42pm

Is something a fact because it appears in a newspaper? Maybe they've been browbeaten by all this bullshit too?

At the start of this, you said it was a fact that this person has transitioned. I asked you "How has this person transitioned exactly? By waking up one morning and deciding to?"

You haven't really given a clear answer to this question.

Me declaring I'm a woman doesn't make it so, no more than me declaring I'm black makes me black, or declaring the earth is flat makes it flat.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 26-04-2022 9:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981264#Comment_118981264

Getting a bit phiosophical here, aren't we? What is fact? I mean, is it a fact that we're not plugged into a matrix and life is an illusion? Is it a fact that my brain is not sitting on a jar in a scientist's desk begin fed with fake stimuli? Is it a fact that you are not a demon sent to taunt me? Is it a fact that I exist?

You asked "How has this person transitioned exactly? By waking up one morning and deciding to?" and the answer appears to be, based on the information presented, yes. Is that a fact? Yes. Beyond that, unless I was there, I can't say, and even if I was you'd probably not accept that as proof.

It was recorded in the article that the person transitioned. if you think the article was wrong, then YOU prove THAT. I'm not playing Russell's Teapot with you.

Ultimately, I'm getting the impression that you're going to claim everything as a lie unless you witness it firsthand yourself. And even then I'm not sure.

cdeb · 26-04-2022 10:18pm

Well I'm going to go old-fashioned here and say that in my view, if you have a penis, you're not a female.

While legally it seems you can wake up one morning and decide to change your gender, the reality is that when faced with a bad law, the rational response should be to change that law, not try warp reality to fit. The law doesn't define scientific reality. (I'd note the famous 1897 case of the American law which sought to define the value of pi as 3.2 - clearly nonsense, even if the law had passed)

I thought Yeonmi Park's comments likening the American collegiate environment - including the use of pronouns, which is closely connected to this matter - to a North Korean cult were interesting. Fairly strong words given she is actually North Korean, having escaped at 13. She said both environments limit critical analysis and lead to people believing nonsense - giving the example of the Dear Leader starving at a time of famine in North Korea and everyone genuinely believing it. Only when she escaped from the country and got away from the mindset of uncritical acceptance could she see that he couldn't have been starving; he was the fattest person in the country. Yet she had genuinely believed it at the time - the power of the cult.

Here instead we have people believing you can change your gender by personal decision, even though that's also against any rational reason. The same idea, argues the North Korean with real experience of a North Korean cult. And I agree.

So I think the article deserves inclusion in this thread.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 26-04-2022 10:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981463#Comment_118981463

If your point is that accepting trans rights means being woke, sure - and I'm pretty sure that was the reason for it being posted.

But I'd disagree. In the same way I don't see that someone who isn't racist as being woke.

Anyway, we move on.

26-04-2022 10:29pm

If you cancel something, can you reorder it later?

cdeb · 26-04-2022 10:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981530#Comment_118981530

What rights?

You don't have the right to simply decide that you're a different gender to what you actually are.

No more than I have the right to decide I'm black or that the earth is flat and to say otherwise is something-phobic.

So come on - make an actual argument and engage in critical discussion rather than resorting to the tired old hints of "that's transphobic" and trying to walk away.

26-04-2022 10:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981591#Comment_118981591

Yes I do- who's going to stop me?

cdeb · 26-04-2022 10:49pm

Well rational society and proper law should.

Do you think you have the right to decide your skin colour too?

26-04-2022 10:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981641#Comment_118981641

Well, now that you're asking, yes I do. I'd like a pale musk please.

Sorry, I was joking there but eh, need to pick you up on something - "RATIONAL SOCIETY'???????

Sorry mate, you're on yer own and you won't last long here.

cdeb · 26-04-2022 10:57pm

Good argument well made there.

And given the nature of the thread, I doubt I'm on my own in my views. A read back of the last page of so will confirm that.

26-04-2022 11:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981680#Comment_118981680

I don't get this "rational society" thing you said- but maybe I'm picking you up wrong or something

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 26-04-2022 11:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981591#Comment_118981591

Actually, you do. Since the 2015 gender recognition act. Or are you going to claim that that's not "fact" either, because, well - how do we know!?

I've made two arguments in the post you replied to, - 1) posting the article was more of an act of transphobia than trying to highlight "woke"; and 2) that accepting the right to transition is a legally accepted right does NOT make you woke.

You either ignored them or didn't bother reading the post and as I don't have any faith in you reading this or responding to them now, I'm out. If you're not going to accept legally enacted laws as proof of point, there's no place really else to go.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 26-04-2022 11:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981531#Comment_118981531

Not if it was Harry Potter.

cdeb · 27-04-2022 10:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981803#Comment_118981803

I've already pointed out that bad laws aren't science. If there's a bad law, we should change the law rather than try warp our view of reality to fit. So I absolutely am going to argue that a person hasn't transitioned just by waking up in the morning and deciding they want to.

You've nothing to offer other than said bad law. (Well, plus getting angry and declaring yourself out - a common tactic in people who don't actually want to engage in genuine discussion about something). In 1800, would you have argued that slavery was an American right because it was in the law? Or would you have been on the side that said "Hold on - that's a bad law; we should change it"? If the pi law had passed, would you adamantly insist the value of pi was 3.2 despite all evidence to the contrary?

This is exactly what Yeonmi Park means by a lack of critical thinking ability brought about by the cult-like approach to certain topics which is increasingly evident.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 27-04-2022 3:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118982762#Comment_118982762

Did you want fact or opinion?

You said, "you don't have the right to simply decide that you're a different gender to what you actually are".

Fact, and wrong.

You have the right in said act- fact, not opnion. QED

I believe people should have this right, opinion, not fact.

You don't believe you should have the right, opinion, not fact.

This is a bad law - opinion. Does not change fact.

In 1800 people had the right to own slaves - fact, not opinion.

You don't believe people should have this right - opinion, not facrt.

Doesn't matter what you think is good or bad, doesn't change facts.

---

Back on topic, believing that people should said right to transition is not woke (opinoin, not fact, as everyone who believes in rights could then be classed as woke)

cdeb · 28-04-2022 11:33am

So going back to my original post, I'm to take it from that that you're quite happy that someone can transition "by waking up one morning and deciding to"? You still seem to think a bad law is science and have offered no other reasons for your views.

I think that belief belongs on this thread, and how bizarrely popular a belief it is doesn't really change matters. You don't. Others can make up their minds.