Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

arsebiscuits1 · 26-04-2022 11:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118977839#Comment_118977839

Reasonable response and I agree.

In a combined 15 I think Beirne and Earls are the only Munster players who get in.

And even in a combined 23 Leinster have 5 or 4 of the 8 bench spots.

Being favourites and quality of players mean very little come 80th minute mind you. All about results.

And I agree. I like what I'm seeing coming up through Munster now. Some promising players

aloooof · 26-04-2022 11:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978101#Comment_118978101

In a combined 15 I think Beirne and Earls are the only Munster players who get in.

And even in a combined 23 Leinster have 5 or 4 of the 8 bench spots.

DDA would definitely make the 15 and Conway would at least make the bench too imo. I'd largely agree other than that tho. (And I'd have little quibble with POM either, given the form he's been in; caveats, Ireland selection etc etc. aside).

Being favourites and quality of players mean very little come 80th minute mind you. All about results.

I'd disagree with this tbh; quality of player will always be a big determing factor in results. Tho I think I know what you're getting at - in a one-off game, a nominally inferior team can win, but over the longer-term, the better team will invariably win. And that's been borne out by the results in the last few seasons.

arsebiscuits1 · 26-04-2022 11:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978184#Comment_118978184

I'll give you DDA actually yeah. And Conway falls into the debate of bench spots which I'm not getting in to ha.

And pretty much yeah you get me. The strongest team on paper matters very little if they lose

Former Former Former · 26-04-2022 11:46am

The Munster academy went through a prolonged dry spell of basically producing no first-choice players for seven or eight years and that will take time to rectify. Guys like Coombes, Hodnett, Kendellen and Casey look to be of the required quality.

I would not rank DDA ahead of Henshaw FWIW.

DBK1 · 26-04-2022 12:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978101#Comment_118978101

I was going through this scenario in my head only a few days back and Beirne was the only one I had picked for a combined 15, but I genuinely forgot about Earls🤦 I’d definitely have him there too.

But one on ones aside, the improvement in Munster is there to be seen and they are a team I’d be worried about if we’re both lucky enough to make the semi finals.

DBK1 · 26-04-2022 12:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978214#Comment_118978214

Agreed on DDA and Henshaw also.

arsebiscuits1 · 26-04-2022 12:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978243#Comment_118978243

You should stop reading the Gunnes mail there buddy.

It's pretty intrusive

aloooof · 26-04-2022 12:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978214#Comment_118978214

I'd probably go 12. DDA 13. Henshaw, but there isn't much between them and Ringrose. It's certainly not an obvious area of superiority anyways, like front-row, say.

tvpc · 26-04-2022 12:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118973831#Comment_118973831

What do you mean how professional rugby works? Sounds like he was rushed back if he injured his shoulder again. Carberry was rushed back for the world cup

Clegg · 26-04-2022 12:31pm

It'll be a sad day when Earls retires. And unfortunately it's coming soon. He's an excellent wing and someone who didn't get the Lions recognition he deserved. In terms of the professional era only Tommy Bowe was better for Ireland. I would have loved to see him in a Leinster shirt.

As far as Munster players getting into the Leinster 23, I think Earls and Beirne make the 15 and DDA the bench. There isn't much between him and Henshaw, but I think his relatively poor performances against Leinster in big games counts against him. Other than the Rainbow Cup game he has been outplayed by Leinsters centres. That probably isn't his fault either. Been let down by poor gameplans and his forwards losing the battle against Leinsters.

arsebiscuits1 · 26-04-2022 12:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978367#Comment_118978367

https://www.the42.ie/lee-barron-leinster-5747186-Apr2022/

We held off on James, we thought Rónan was going to start and then just on the Friday we didn’t take the chance.

Kelleher won’t feature, having flown back to Dublin following that shoulder injury, which Cullen describes as “pretty minor.” Loosehead prop Andrew Porter will also be rested

Given himself and Porter are now back in Dublin it's abundantly clear that this was a risk adverse move rather than an actual injury enforcement.

You're trying to drum up drama where there isn't any. Leave that to Home and Away

sydthebeat · 26-04-2022 12:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978367#Comment_118978367

You're wrong twice now

pickarooney · 26-04-2022 12:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978283#Comment_118978283

Why not both and drop Ringrose?

Dubinusa · 26-04-2022 1:31pm

I think proper coaching will get more from Munster. Leinster have had fantastic coaches and it shows. If Ireland were to be looking for a coaching team, I would think Leinsters coaching team would get the job.

Good news on Kelleher! He was missed and will be this week. I think the Sharks are a better pack than the Stormers? So we may hold our own this week. I'm not very confident and hopefully we can hang in with them.

Does anyone know the intake for the academy? When it will be announced?

arsebiscuits1 · 26-04-2022 2:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978367#Comment_118978367

Worth noting. Despite your best efforts. These situations are not the same.

Carbery played games. Kelleher did not.

So this is actually the opposite of rushing him back....

Podge_irl · 26-04-2022 6:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978500#Comment_118978500

Same reason no Irish coach has ever dropped a fit Ringrose 😁

Combined 23s are always a messy exercise for this reason though.

salmocab · 26-04-2022 8:20pm

DDA that plays for South Africa gets in the Leinster team, DDA that plays for Munster does not. They haven’t got close to his best out of him for whatever reason.

El_Duderino 09 · 26-04-2022 9:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118980876#Comment_118980876

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978699#Comment_118978699

I think coaching is the answer to why munster has failed to get the best out of DDA. I think it's why players like Carbery and Jordie Murphy, Ian Madigan, Marty Moore etc. haven't kicked on when they left Leinster. In fact I think a lot of those players that leave, have regressed since leaving.

I think the leinster coaching and development setup is even better than we give credit for. They have a great conveyor belt of potential players but the real magic is how they hone that potential and turn them into top class players. That's how I see it anyway.

Dubinusa · 26-04-2022 10:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981082#Comment_118981082

Agree in part. Madigan I think could have been a very good 10. Gopperth arriving and starting scampered his development. Since he left Leinster, he's been average at best. I think sometimes you have to trust the player you have and give him the reins. Gopperth was a good enough player but, that's about it. I think Madigan could have been better than him. But, then J.S came back,so it's moot.

26-04-2022 10:46pm

Haven't been on since the game on Saturday, but really thought it was an excellent performance from a really young Leinster side. You literally have your fifth and sixth choice players out there in certain positions (directly up against RWC winners), and to be in a position where you could have won the game is really something.

I thought Rhys Ruddock was immense. Showed so much fight and leadership; huge tackle count, huge carry count.

Also have to parrot the earlier posters who were lamenting the fact Jack Dunne is leaving. I know he hadn't gotten huge game time over the past two seasons, both as a result of injury problems and the quality of the players in front of him, but we aren't exactly flush with 23-year-old 6ft 8 and 115kg locks, who have an abrasive style to their game, and it's sad to see him going.

For me, it is somewhat un-Leinsterlike to see Dunne leaving, and effectively being replaced by a guy like Jason Jenkins. Jenkins probably had his best game (not a lot to choose from) in a Munster shirt last Friday night in Ravenhill, but I still haven't seen enough to suggest he even gets into a first choice Leinster 23, much less enhance their chances of winning a Champions Cup, so really all you've achieved by swapping Dunne for him is a slight diminution of the playing pool for potential national team selection.

stephen_n · 26-04-2022 11:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981586#Comment_118981586

Madigan would never have been a good 10. Great player but he never had what it took to be a top class 10. He looked good at times behind a dominant pack. Against serious opposition the flaws in his game were always very obvious to see. Once he moved away from Leinster and didn’t have that platform. He got exposed a lot more.

26-04-2022 11:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981765#Comment_118981765

I think he's a 10 who works best in a very unstructured environment, where he's pushing the play aggressively and taking chances. He looked good during that stint in Leinster behind a dominant pack, with a plethora of great back options outside him, but he's had snippets of good moments for Bordeaux and Bristol when he's trying to push the play as well, and even looked good for the final 10 mins last Friday v Munster when trying to force things.

He has rarely looked assured at managing a game, or unpicking a very structured defence.

Yeah_Right · 27-04-2022 12:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981586#Comment_118981586

Gopperth is a much better player than Madigan. Gopperth is nearly 40 and playing at a higher level and better than Madigan. If Jimmy was at Ulster, he would be getting picked ahead of Madigan.

Dubinusa · 27-04-2022 2:58am

Look who Gopperths playing for! He's playing center. I'm not saying that Madigan is/was better, just that he probably could have been good with the right coaching. Madigan would not be a Sexton type player. Who knows, he could have progressed to be a regular.

As said, Gopperth was a good player. I feel his signing probably hindered Madigans development.

stephen_n · 27-04-2022 8:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981844#Comment_118981844

I think Madigan would have been better off playing as a 12. Some of his best games for Leinster were there.

Your last sentence summed him up perfectly. Which is why he never made a top level 10. Very exiting to watch but didn’t have the ability to really manage games against top teams.

RichieRich_89 · 27-04-2022 8:30am

Think I'd go for:

Edward Byrne
John McKee
Michael Ala'alatoa
Jack Dunne
Josh Murphy
Rhys Ruddock
Scott Penny
Max Deegan
Nick McCarthy
Harry Byrne
Rory O'Loughlin
Ciarán Frawley
Jamie Osborne
Tommy O'Brien
Maximilian Oliver O'Reilly
James Tracy/Lee Barron
Peter Dooley
Thomas Clarkson
Brian Deeny
Sean O'Brien
Cormac Foley
David Hawkshaw
Chris Cosgrave

If Deegan doesn't make it I guess Ruddock to 8, Murphy at blindside, with Deeny coming into the starting XV at lock and Alexis Soroka on the bench.

I think I'd rather see Frawley at 10 than Hawkshaw if Harry Byrne is ruled out. It'd probably be a 6-2 split if Byrne isn't available. Might be anyway.

The Stormers look dangerous on counter-attack from what little I've seen of them. There needs to be way less loose kicking. If the Sharks are anything to go by these SA teams don't build pressure like a European side with the same physicality would.

pickarooney · 27-04-2022 9:42am

Madigan doesn't know how to be boring. And that's a key skill that players like Ross Byrne and Morné Steyn master early on. I mean that in the nicest possible way.

Steyn could turn on the flash when he wanted to, Byrne a bit less so, although his kicking from hand can be lethal. Knowing when to turn it off is vital and it always felt like Madigan either couldn't or wouldn't if there was a chance of a high-rise, high-reward alternative.

A bit like Carlos Spencer I suppose.

27-04-2022 9:49am

Madigans big chance came at a point when Leinsters overall squad was not at the calibre it had been under Schmidt nor is now.

I also think O'Connor was quite a poor coach. Madigan played better in green during MOCs tenure.

I'd like to see what he could have done in this setup.

sydthebeat · 27-04-2022 10:04am

Madigan showed against France in RWC 2015 that he had all the basic traits to be a test outhalf, problem with him was consistency and very much as pickarooney says above, lacking in the ability be steady and boring.

Former Former Former · 27-04-2022 10:29am

There were long spells of the MOC era when we were very glad of Gopperth, he was an excellent signing.

Madigan definitely had all the raw materials but just not the temperament. Maybe he could have worked on that had he stuck around but going to Bordeaux was a disastrous move for him, they needed him to be the finished article on day one and he simply wasn't.

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

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