Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

TRC10 · 26-04-2022 4:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118979863#Comment_118979863

I'm glad we didn't as it would be embarrassing and farcical and I'm glad we'll likely be seeing the back of project players after 2023.

Not to mention, he isn't the type of person I'd want anywhere near a green jersey

ersatz · 26-04-2022 4:39pm

I’m not sure smith is ahead of de Klerk or DuPont in any 23, Murray was ahead of him in his prime. Great player and in any other country he’d be unquestionably outstanding but currently in NZ he’s probably their best player (Savea his equal). It’s an unusual position for NZ to be in that their best player isn’t ahead of his competitors elsewhere.

sydthebeat · 26-04-2022 4:47pm

Smith has been first choice scrum half for the world's best team for nine years running. At this stage he's 33 and in the twilight of his career. There's no question that for a long period of that nine years he was the world's best scrum half.

TRC10 · 26-04-2022 4:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118979972#Comment_118979972

Agreed. Murray from 2016-2018 and current Dupont are the only 9s who have rivalled him in that period.

arsebiscuits1 · 26-04-2022 5:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118979943#Comment_118979943

Murray was at best level with Smith in 2017-18.

Smith has had an astonishing level of consistency and one of the most complete skill sets of any 9 over the last decade

pickarooney · 26-04-2022 5:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118979714#Comment_118979714

France beat them in November.

Yeah_Right · 26-04-2022 7:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118980015#Comment_118980015

Du Pont is currently the best in the world but for his entire career Smith has been in the conversation. Murray at his peak was also in the conversation because he was bloody good and the gameplan for Ireland and the Lions suited his style. I never thought his style would suit the ABs and I don't think he could play like Smith. Whereas Smith could adapt and play like Murray.

Hope that makes sense.

Yeah_Right · 26-04-2022 7:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118979612#Comment_118979612

Yeah I've never been sold on Reiko at centre. One of the best wingers in the world for a few years but not a centre.

Midfield is a toss up. No one has really grabbed the jersey at 12 or 13 and made it their own since the retirement of Nonu, Smith and SBW. It's an area I think Ireland have the edge.

pickarooney · 26-04-2022 7:44pm

I would love to see peak Aaron Smith in the current Irish side.

I'd pick him over Dupont as long as Sexton was there. Without JS it's a different conundrum.

Shehal · 26-04-2022 7:55pm

Its weird because imo Dupont reminds me abit of Beaudan Barrett as in I think he's arguably the best rugby player on the planet but when it comes to being a 9 there are arguably better players (namely Aaron Smith) at the basics of the position like passing and box kicking.

TRC10 · 26-04-2022 10:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118980743#Comment_118980743

Dupont's box kicking is class though and he can launch it off either foot which is a massive weapon when it comes to relieving pressure. His passing wouldn't be as good as Smith but it's still very good and certainly not a weakness.

What makes Dupont incredible is his freakish strength and athleticism combined with his anticipation, support lines and general rugby IQ. It helps that he plays for two teams who throw the ball around and make lots of line breaks for him to get on the end of.

I would sell my kidney to see the current Dupont and 2016 Barrett play in the same team.

26-04-2022 10:59pm

The media comments suggest today (not unexpectedly) that Ireland will bring a squad of 40+ to NZ, which is great to hear.

I would love though if some of our key guys like Jonathan Sexton and Tadhg Furlong were not in that squad though.

I'm still convinced part of the reason Ireland were so undercooked for virtually the entirety of 2019 but especially the RWC was down to the fact that the players had had virtually no break from summer 2017 through to that period; taking in a Lions tour to NZ for a good few, a Grand Slam, a tour to Australia and the successful Autumn series in between.

Some guys picked up injuries in Australia that they never seemed to successfully shake off for the next 18 months, including Tadgh Furlong and Conor Murray. Murray arguably never regained the athleticism he had prior to the neck injury he sustained on that tour.

You also find yourself in a situation where you put too much tape out there of your style of play and your key player's strengths and weaknesses, and RWC opponents figure you out.

I'd rather see a lot of young guys on this tour this summer get a lot of game time incl Lowry, Hume, Baloucoune, Prendergast, Casey, Coombes (hopefully), Jimmy O'Brien, Ryan Baird, etc. The results likely won't be pretty but i think the investment is still worthwhile.

TRC10 · 26-04-2022 11:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981691#Comment_118981691

England took a full strength squad to South Africa for a 3 test series in 2018 and I seem to remember them doing ok at the World Cup.

Ireland's drop in form in 2019 was nothing to do with fatigue. Leinster still won the league and got to a Heineken Cup final that year so they clearly weren't that wrecked.

I think the majority of our issues came from the game moving on and us failing to evolve, both in personnel and tactically.

RichieRich_89 · 27-04-2022 12:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981691#Comment_118981691

France did that for their 2007 summer tour to NZ and it worked out okay for them at the World Cup later that year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_France_rugby_union_tour_of_New_Zealand

Sounds as if it had more to do with the tour clashing with the Top Quatorze than them trying to prepare for the World Cup, though.

sydthebeat · 27-04-2022 7:19am

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/i-want-to-be-an-all-black-irish-born-oli-jager-reasserts-his-test-ambitions/

Oli jager isn't coming home any time soon

Yeah_Right · 27-04-2022 11:49am

Think the ABs should definitely call up Jager for the Irish series. He would be very motivated to play well against them. Maybe give him a start in the first Maori game and if he goes well, get him in the test squad.

Jump_In_Jack · 27-04-2022 11:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118983165#Comment_118983165

How would he qualify for the Maori?

Yeah_Right · 27-04-2022 12:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118983209#Comment_118983209

Maybe he feels Maori. Or his missus might have some Maori blood 😆

I wasn't actually being serious. It's just when the likes of DMac, Robbie Robinson, Paul Tito, Tony Browne and Daniel Braid have all played for the Maori, an Irish import is the next step.

Interested Observer · 27-04-2022 5:38pm

I know you were joking but I think the rule for Maori is if you're 1/16th you can play for them, so great great grandparent (?) or something. James Lowe played for them as well.

Skyfloater · 27-04-2022 6:57pm

I don't know if it's the norm to have a moan over in NZ, but I was watching the AB coach Ian Foster being interviewed on Rugbypass, and he was getting dog's abuse in the comments section. The consensus was that he was clueless and out of his depth.

TRC10 · 27-04-2022 8:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985170#Comment_118985170

Yeah that would appear to be the popular opinion in NZ. I'd imagine fans are frustrated that they aren't as dominant as they were, but I think that's more down to the fact that their current players of players just aren't as good as the golden generation they had before. France absolutely have a stronger XV IMO.

I think a part of it stems from the fact that the majority of fans wanted Scott Robertson after 2019, but the custom in NZ has always been to appoint someone already in the coaching ticket, hence Fozzy got the job.

Yeah_Right · 27-04-2022 9:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118984889#Comment_118984889

Yeah 1/16 is right. And you have to be able to trace your ancestors so you know what tribe you're from. It's always been a bit of a laugh in NZ about how white some of the Maori players look. All the guys I mentioned are blonde haired and blue eyed or in Tito's case, full ginger.

salmocab · 27-04-2022 9:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985673#Comment_118985673

does the 1/16th person have to be full Maori? Or whatever the right term is or do you just have to show that the 1/16th person had some maori in them?

Yeah_Right · 27-04-2022 9:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985401#Comment_118985401

Yeah Foster was never a popular choice anywhere in NZ except Hamilton. I'm pretty sure he hadn't won anything as a head coach and a lot of people felt it was time for a bit of a clean out.

Your comment about NZ always appointing from within the previous ticket isn't entirely accurate. The only times I can think of it happening was Grizz Wylie in 1988 (he was an assistant in the 87 RWC) and Hansen after RWC 2011. The fact Henry was kept after 2007 was a big surprise. Usually there is a massive clean out after failing to win a world cup. And 2007 was our worst ever - a quarter final defeat!! How embarrassing 😜

27-04-2022 9:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118983389#Comment_118983389

"An Irish import is the next step"

Yeah_Right · 27-04-2022 9:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985734#Comment_118985734

I think they have to be full Maori but I'm not 100% certain. If that's the case it could be a problem in a few years as I remember reading years ago that there were no full Maoris left.

IO mentioned that James Lowe played for the Maori. At least he looks Maori. I think JGP might have played for them as well.

salmocab · 27-04-2022 9:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118985817#Comment_118985817

Yeah I was thinking that being full Māori would surely be a diminishing thing. Although I suppose as it’s a team that effectively only plays friendlies they can change the rules as they please.

RichieRich_89 · 04-05-2022 6:06am

I think it'd be good to see Ben Healy and Frawley included in the touring squad this summer. Might be difficult to justify bringing both of them though if Sexton and Carbery go as 10s and Henshaw, Aki, Ringrose and Hume go as centres.

Dubinusa · 04-05-2022 2:29pm

If non international players are taken to N.Z, I would like to see Molony; Doak, Prendergast and Murray. I think they've all excelled this season.

OneLungDavy · 04-05-2022 7:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119014815#Comment_119014815

I'd prefer to see Ahern or McCarthy ahead of Molony. Both could be special players in a few years, could even be adequate internationals come WC time in a position we are fairly light. I think Rowntree will show more faith in Ahern next season, he has to be the most talented forward Munster have produced in a decade, now develop him.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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