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FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,717 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Of course that is a flippant comment, they all fell from the same tree etc. But the desperation of some supporters to now say FF and FG are the same is hilarious. Just reading policies etc they have different opinions on most topics. It's almost as if they want to try and push that agenda forward for the benefit of other parties.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,658 ✭✭✭timmyntc




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,111 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Well, when you actually read it, you realise that compared to the rest of the world, we actually have it quite good in relation to housing here.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    "2 sides of the same coin" A perception that only Sinn Fein supporters are pushing and nobody else.....

    I've been hearing 'two cheeks of the same arse' for decades. Back when SF were 4 or 5 %.

    This obsession with SF is part of the problem. Ignoring the issues facing the public to attack the boogeyman. Easier than actually fixing things.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,709 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    What Martin and FF which include the Republic party as part of their moniker thought they were doing by not going after Flanagan/FG bald headed on the Black and Tans/RIC commemoration is bewildering. Their core vote would have seen them then as the rightful claimants to being the Republican party rather than S,F but in one fell swoop they blew that.

    They didn`t expect to do anywhere near as well as they did in the 2016 GE and were expecting to still be in opposition afterwards. They did not expect the total collapse of Labour and were looking to 2020 for their big comeback. They were caught between two stools and choose the option that neither left them in the tent or the ability to piss into it. They would have been as well off then going into coalition with FG because they looked in the eyes of the voters as FG`s coalition partners anyway. Especially after the commemoration fiasco. They just seemed to be enthralled by Martin taking the job as leader in 2011 when nobody else wanted it, and with them doing much better than they expected in 2016 just unquestioningly letting him have a free hand which that really came back to bite them 2020.

    Labour just sold their souls for cabinet seats in 2011, and then added to it by allowing Kelly to take over from Hogan on water charges. Like FF and the commemorations what they thought that would achieve is a mystery.

    There are a lot of green supporters who are attempting to play down any comparison between this turf war and the water charges war, but I believe that is because they see the turf war as FF`s water charges moment with them being the most likely party to walk over it. If FF do not see it the same then imo they are being very foolish. FG are going to have problems as well if the greens attempt to push through legislation. The ideal solution for both would be to fudge it with a free vote because if push comes to shove and they employ the whips, then not only will both have defections, the government will in all likelihood collapse.

    If turf is the only rock the greens polling within the margin of error believe they could die on then they would be sadly mistaken. There is a hillside covered in them where in a GE campaign, as being part of a government, they would have a lot more serious questions to answer than last time out where they slipped in unnoticed mainly due to SF not running enough candidates.

    In the world of realpolitik it is in all threes interest to fill this away in a cupboard and forget about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,658 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    I have and I cannot find any difference. If you know of any differences between the parties please enlighten us all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,717 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Emotional scenes in the Dail. I feel somewhat sorry for Ryan. His coalition partners have betrayed him. I don't see it bringing down the government though.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,138 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Tell you what as you seem to have the time. Can you tell me what ones are the same? please enlighten us?

    The values of both parties seem different

    https://www.fiannafail.ie/our-party#our-values

    https://www.finegael.ie/the-party/our-values/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,138 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    This will be Drop kicked to Europe who FFG can blame 🤔 even if EU support a Ban on the sale and burning of Turf (They will of course) it won't wash with those impacted until viable alternatives are in place.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,717 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Values are not policies. They are just spoof. I laughed out loud at this one.

    Integrity: Fine Gael believes in being truthful and courageous in what we do, and in promoting and upholding both the rights and the responsibilities of people. This means ensuring all of us live up to our responsibilities as well as enjoying our rights as Irish men and women.

    So...did the following FG politicians miss the memo? Alan Whiplash Farrell? Dara Murphy? Michelle Mulherin? Hugh McElvaney? Maria Bailey? Fidelma Healy Eames? James Reilly? Phil Hogan? John Perry? Crony Coveney? Leo?

    Does Integrity essentially equate to gorging in the trough for FG politicians?

    New Politics?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    You should contact FG and ask them. I have no idea.

    I didn't say values are policies. I clearly posted the values seem different, are you saying they are not?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,717 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    You're a slippery eel BA 😂

    So do you agree that those Fine Gael politicians I listed are not living their values?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    It's just a spurge of TD's, I didn't even read the full list. Maria Bailey is no longer even in FG is she? I am sure some of the others are probably gone as well.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Take a screen shot. That list will be deleted like 'new politics' and O'Duffy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭jmcc


    It is already showing up in recent opinion polls that have questions about second preferences. the FF/FG voters transfer strongly between each party. That trend is an interesting one as the two parties used to be traditional enemies with clearly defined identities. The lack of differentiation is quite dangerous in that the two parties are now competing directly for the same votes rather than competing for votes across the political spectrum.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,709 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The greens would need to be very careful what they drop kick towards Europe. They have a proposed bill to ban all forms of LNG while our energy regulator has stated our present source of gas from the the U.K. is unsecure and is not in compliance with E.U. directives. The E.U. only recognise two energy sources as being transitional, gas and nuclear, and that includes LNG which they are attempting to fill the gap caused by the gas shortage caused by the war in Ukraine using U.S. LNG.

    The Irish greens could find themselves having to explain some very sticky questions to the E.U. if the E.U are forced to cast a cold eye over turf as I doubt while doing so they would just ignore our none compliance on gas.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    I would have previously hoped the greens were the kind of party to put their ethics and beliefs, good or bad, before pensions, but it doesn't seem so. I'd rather parties succeed or fail based on principle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    It is easier explained, like I have done previously on this thread, that the opposition and the carry on online of supporters is driving other parties to a "anyone but ....." you can fill in the blank's yourself



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭jmcc


    I think that Martin is a neo-Unionist who doesn't belong in FF. That's why he reacted as a neo-Unionist, much like Flanagan and John Bruton, to the Black and Tans/RIC commemoration. Bruton was even more of an embrarrassment to FG but he wasn't the leader of the party. In 2016, FF mistook a natural bounce-back as a rise in support for FF. The C&S was the stupidest move for FF but totally in keeping with Martin's forlock tugging subservience to FG. Blowing the 2020 GE when the electorate wanted anyone but FG in government was one of the stupidest and most incompetent political moves ever. SF capitalised on Martin's incompetence.

    Kelly is unusual in that he's not the typical Labour TD. He's not a YATSE (Yet Another Teacher Seeking Election) and has real world work experience. That's why he tried to do the best job possible when handled the Water Tax issue. As soon as Bacik was elected, it was inevitable that he'd be stabbed in the back. Labour has become the Irish Times dinner party and is completely disconnected from reality.

    Some of the Greens are ideologically driven. That's behind their obsession with turf. Ironically, some of the Greens were elected on SF transfers in 2020 and those transfers are unlikely to happen in the upcoming GE. Some in FF realise the damage that the turf war will do to FF's rural support and are wary of Martin's position. Anything that Martin does to appear to be standing up to the Greens is really being done by Martin to save his position until December. It is typical FF short-termist thinking.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,717 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Spurge? Do you want to have a go at answering the question? I know the list is long but please persevere.

    Hint: None of them.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Why? it seems to be common around here to fire out something and then demand an answer, yet the same is never reciprocate. I have already said I don't support or vote for FG

    If you want a review of every TD who has ever been in FG I am sure you have the time to do it, I don't. You can then do a review of the values of the party and make a decision if the TD did or didn't meet them. I have no interest, thank you



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,111 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The turf ban is still coming.

    What is truly worrying is the depth of opposition to the government's plans to combat climate change. It is almost as if the opposition don't care about the future of our young people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭jmcc




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    It's surprising after all these years the ban of turf seems to be some sort of a surprise for some parties. Have they been living under a rock for the last 20 years?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,709 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Martin`s problem when it comes to dealing with Unionist "sensibilities" is that he is an appeaser. If he went up and shot himself in the head in Stormont as a blood sacrifice he could not appease them. He blew 2020 imo in 2016 when he agreed the C&S and left FF as wide open to SF criticism as FG but without any of the perks or the ability to put forward any meaningful proposals. It was insane and I wonder was it anything to do with him not being the first FF leader who would not have been a full Taoiseach rather than a half one, something he still had to accept, and was grateful for in 2020.

    Kelly may have been a different bred to the usual Labour T.D.s, but for someone who had hopes of becoming leader taking over the fiasco from Hogan when Labour had been elected on a policy of no water charges was madness. He should have ran a mile from it, because everyone knew what was coming down the road for Labour at that point. Even if they may not have realised just how bad it was going to be.

    The Greens are beginning to see the politically reality when the rubber of ideology hits the road. They picked up handy seats in 2020 due to SF not running enough candidates and looked the most likely on the left to be harmless enough. Both of those they are not going to have the luxury off next time out. Martin is in a spot in that if he does want to hold on to December he now has to stand up to the Greens or his own will take him out. If he does hold on until December then I can see him gone at that stage whether he wants too or not. "giving a new leader time before the next GE blah blah" will be given as the reason, but after this turf war whoever replaces him is not going to get the Greens the easy ride they have had with Martin.Varadkar or no Varadkar I would not see it as any different for the Greens going forward with FG either.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭jmcc


    The facts and the data don't support your position.

    Regards...jmcc



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