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Limerick improvement projects

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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,317 ✭✭✭✭phog


    It's Eamon Ryan, sense doesn't come into it.

    As I said, he'll cost us a fortune in delaying road development like this but he won't care as he'll be gone.



  • Posts: 864 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That's the end of Brian Leddin as a TD anyway. Greens are going to get wiped out in the next election



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,050 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Unless of course all this plays well with their voters who probably don't give a sht about a road around Moyross.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,317 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Do the Greens have enough votes in Limerick to get a TD elected?

    Iirc, he got elected last time around on transfers, he may well have lost those transfers now.

    He didn't cover himself in glory in WhatsAppGate either so may lose votes for his involvement there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭Brian Lighthouse



    Phog,

    Leddin B, was elected and didn't reach the quota. He received 7% of the 1st Pref Vote. So essentially, like Twitter, - Pre Musk - 8% of the most vocal became influential. The next GE will be be very interesting indeed.......:-)

    on 2020, (see below)




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  • Posts: 864 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Somewhat thankfully there are only 345 Nazis in Limerick



  • Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭Brian Lighthouse


    Well, if it helps, 344, because - the candidate's husband who ran in another constituency - but is registered here. more than likely voted for her, yet his vote couldn't count in the other area. I hope that makes sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,015 ✭✭✭✭Mc Love




  • Registered Users Posts: 24,317 ✭✭✭✭phog


    but while we're here roads are required and they will be built to meet that demand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,015 ✭✭✭✭Mc Love


    the benefits of which are short lived and will require more roads to be built. We cant keep making the same mistakes, but anything to keep the plebs happy and then the politicians get voted in for another term



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,317 ✭✭✭✭phog




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I love that the guys who replied to you didn't realise you are quoting Back to the Future (though I think the line is 'we don't need roads"?)

    The train stuff in the plans look interesting, I'm in no way surprised they are getting ignored here though. Personally think either the "Keith Earls Station" or the "Tommy Barrett Station" are acceptable names, can't wait for the opening.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,050 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Well I want to get cars away from areas like Hassetts cross so my cycle to work is easier and safer and I also want the city centre to be as car free as possible.

    Tell me how we do this without a ring road ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,050 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    What's the train plan ?

    It's not that stupid station in Moyross thing is it ?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Are you calling the Keith Earls station stupid? (No idea if the article will post below with the new site...)


    EXPLAINER: What is Limerick's new transport plan all about?

    Limerick Colbert station is in line for an upgrade under the new transport strategy | Picture: Adrian Butler

    Nick Rabbitts

    27 Apr 2022 1:00 PM

    Email: nick@limerickleader.ie


    What is the Limerick Shannon Metropolitan Area Transport Strategy?


    The Limerick Shannon Metropolitan Area Transport Strategy, or LSMATS (pronounced El-Es-Mats) as it's more commonly known is a major new blueprint for travel and transportation locally.

    It's been developed by the National Transport Authority (NTA) in conjunction with Limerick City and County Council, Clare County Council, Transport Infrastructure Ireland, as well as taking heed of the input of a number of other groups.

    The aim of the strategy is to deliver a high-quality, accessible, integrated and more sustainable transport network across both Co Limerick and Shannon, which is a major employment hub for the Mid-West region.

    It has been prepared amid fears of the impact of private car usage on the climate, with the blueprint aimed at discouraging the use of the private vehicle, particularly for short-trips.

    But how can you persuade people to get out of their car?

    In order to do this, the NTA believes land use and transport planning will be more closely aligned. Street space and road space will be shared, with walking, cycling and public transpoirt given priority.

    What's in the plan for Limerick then?

    Reports yesterday focused on the fact that the second phase of the Northern Distributor Road- seen as crucial to relieve traffic congestion in the city centre - was not in the plan.

    But there is plenty in the strategy for Limerick, perhaps most notably, the provision of new rail stations at Moyross and Ballysimon, the latter seeing a park-and-ride. On top of this, more frequent train services on the Ennis and Ballybrophy lines are being posited. Given the existing line to Ennis passes close to Moyross and Ballysimon, it's assumed the new stations will be placed here. The line to Ballybrophy serves the commuter villages of Castleconnell and Birdhill, as well as the town of Nenagh - with Irish Rail often criticised for its poor level of service on this route, so more frequent trains here will no doubt be welcomed.

    The line between Limerick Junction and Colbert is to also to be dual tracked, while the city's main rail terminal is to be upgraded. On top of this, a detailed study is planned to determine future investment in rail infrastructure and commuter services in the Limerick area. This could pave the way for more stations.

    There's more to this plan than trains though...

    Loads more. There will be a big overhaul of the area's bus service, with Limerick getting its very own BusConnects programme. This will lead to what's been described as a 'branch and spine' network, increased capacity and frequency, and demand responsive services in locations where ridership is low. Bus gates will be provided in certain locations whereby only public transport vehicles and cyclists will be allowed to enter. Strategic park-and-rides will be introduced.

    It's hoped to introduce intregated ticketing measures - so presumably, there will be no need to mix-and-match. Your Leap card would cover your whole journey (so long as you have money on it!)

    Another network will be introduced - a walking network for the city and Shannon. To do this, pedestrian crossings will be improved to have longer crossing times for pedestrians, and the removal of unnecessary signage, and other obstacles which are felt to impede pedestrian movement. More city centre streets will be pedestrianised, while people will be encouraged to walk more from the suburbs closer to the core. Improvements are also planned around the bus stops in Shannon Town, Sixmilebridge, Cratloe, and other dormitory areas to Limerick.

    Improvements to the public realm in Cratloe, Ardnacrusha, Clonlara and Bunratty are sought. Connectivity to Shannon town and the airport will be greatly improved over the life of this plan, which stretches up to 2040.

    Wait, back-up a bit, what is a branch-and-spine bus network?

    Hard to explain, but this animation based on the proposed Bus Connects programme for Dublin could help.

    What about this new economic zone the University of Limerick (UL) is planning?

    The university is planning to build a new zone, providing work for up to 3,500 people on its lands in South East Clare. While the fact the second phase of the Northern Distributor Road is not being included in the strategy will no doubt come as a blow, UL's project gets a mention. LSMATS proposes an area-based transport assessment be carried out for it.

    How about cycling?

    LSMATS envisages a cycling network for the city, with 'high-capacity corridors'. including from Mary Immaculate College, the University of Limerick, and the National Technology Park to the city centre. Also, private vehicle traffic is proposed to be removed from Sarsfield Bridge, permitting only buses, taxis, cyclists and pedestrians.

    Permanent cycle infrastructure will be provided on Shannon Bridge.

    Where does the proposed Limerick to Cork motorway fit into all this?

    It is the intention of the NTA, TII and the local authorities to deliver the new M20 motorway, as well as reduce peak-time congestion on the N18. The Foynes to Limerick road including the Adare bypass is also included, while there will be a feasibility study and route selection process to progress the apprisal and delivery of the N24 improvemy scheme connecting Cahir and Limerick Junction. Future roads will be assessed according to the guidance in LSMATS.

    Is this new?

    Not entirely. A draft metropolitan strategy was released in 2020, and people had their say on the contents of that. Due to the Covid-19 pandemic, it has taken a bit longer than normal for the the second, updated version, based on people's submissions to come back.

    What happens next?

    A consultation period on the latest strategy is open until Friday, June 10. Once this is complete, the NTA plans to finalise the LSMATS and commence its implementation. First step will be a review of Limerick's current metropolitan bus network and the development of proposals for bus lane infrastructure. A cycle network is also included at this time, while a new local area transport plan will kick off in Shannon Town. Irish Rail will be tasked with developing an investment programme for local trains.

    How can I have my say?

    Information on how you can have your say can be found online here. The full strategy can be found by clicking here (Grab a cuppa though it's 144 pages long!)



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    The train plan is a waste of time. All the Greens plans for reopening every closed heavy rail line around the city for commuter services have been binned as they're not realistic. They said they might be viable by 2070 if the population grows enough.

    As to the rail plan they have announced. A station at Moyross and another at Ballysimon on a single track line that will take longer to get people to the city center than driving, cycling or getting the bus will not be used. I'm also not sure what use a park and ride at Ballysimon will be. The major employment centers are outside the city center and nowhere near the rail line.

    Park and rides should be built on the M7 and N18 along the proposed bus corridors serving the industrial estates. These would have a much higher usage than what's proposed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,050 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Ya I am. Personally it'll be great for me when I want to pop to Ennis and I'm sure a small few TUS students might us it but if we are building stations then it would be much better rebuild stations on the Dublin line and create new commuter towns. Or if you are going for the Moyross thing then also open more stations on that line.

    For park and ride you would need to have a car at each end otherwise why would you get off in Moyross rather than continue to the centre.

    Also naming stations after people is stupid. The station should just be called where you are getting off.



  • Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭Brian Lighthouse


    Cookiemunster wrote: "The train plan is a waste of time."

    I must agree with CM again.

    On my recent travels to Moyross - and I would urge anyone reading this to walk/cycle/drive up for a look. I see now eight building sites (below).

    I also - over the last eight weeks, since February 20 - carried out my own unofficial study of the use of the bus stops located where the proposed train station will be. There are two bus stops close by, one bus stop gets an average of 1 passenger per hour (Daytime only) while the other gets an average of 3 passengers per bus: again, daytime.

    Now, the bus stop at Cosgrave Park - closest to Iceland/Post Office etc picks up another average 1 passenger per bus - these passengers will not be serviced by a train - if that makes sense to you - unless they walk up the hill; and I think that is why the bus stop is there in the first place, many of the passengers are not able/unwilling to walk up the hill.

    Anyway, combine the future population of Moyross with the current bus users and I would think, that the train to Limerick from Moyross will get about 5 (FIVE) passengers per hour. I think that's why buses run, as trains are very expensive.

    Just bulid the bloody road man. Phase 1 and phase 2 to Annacotty/M7 link. Anyway.

    When the population of Moyross is in the 100s of thousands, a train service will be viable. However for this to happen, And I'm reliably informed from an GP member that the greens are in fear of their lives for a UL move into South East Clare (Why? IDK) - they will have to relax on their stance of opposing the UL move.

    If they don't relax that extremist view (OIL BAD - WIND GOOD), it's highly likely that we will see a one term TD who's only legacy will be that he blocked construction, blocked employment, blocked housing and all the ancilliaries that emerge as a result of economic activity as a result.

    As an aside - do you know, that Wind power applications in this country are only granted if the developer can guarantee that there is a similar amount of power availble from a fossil fuel source should the wind "not work" -- - - - - -Please, please someone tell me here that I am incorrect!!!!! Please do.



    EDIT From here on:

    Again on Wind: The blades can't be recycled.

    Also see here: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-02-05/wind-turbine-blades-can-t-be-recycled-so-they-re-piling-up-in-landfills

    Post edited by Brian Lighthouse on


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,317 ✭✭✭✭phog


    The railway bridge is single track, added to that you then have a circular route to the train station which will restrict rapid rail transport. Then there's talk of adding a stop near the Parkway, sounds great but that adds another 5 mins or so to an already slow trip. Then when you get to the station there's none or very few city buses picking up near the train station.

    Imho, the whole train transport around the city is a complete waste of money.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭Brian Lighthouse


    Correct, when you get to the Train station, you can get a bus to Shannon, Adare, Askeaton, Derry, Belfast, Letterkenny, Even the old Slattery Buss route to London is still going and Kilmallock etc etc.

    If you even want to get to Hyde Road (leave the station and go to Panda Hire) you may aswell stay on the bus that brought you past the Train Station.

    Bang on Phog, You can't get a city bus from that station.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,283 ✭✭✭source


    My thinking is that the train stations in Moyross, Corbally and Parkway aren't for getting people to town. I reckon its the green's way of replacing the LNDR with public transport.

    You want to move from the North side of the city to UL? Get the train to to the Parkway and walk! A very green party solution to the problem. It won't get people out of cars because the still have a 20 minute walk when they get off the train, but I'm almost certain that's the idea behind it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,050 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Now that it's every 15 mins the 303 bus is a brilliant service. There is no alternative public transport that will come close. It also gets you to town in 15 mins which is very efficient.

    The biggest issue with usage numbers on the 303 is it doesn't "go anywhere". 301 and 304 service the hospital, 302 and 304 service universities.

    Now imagine the 302 was Rathbane-TUS-Caherdavin and the 303 was Moyross to UL or UHL for instance. I bet numbers would suddenly jump.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,523 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    If you're concerned that the provision of rail will be over investment in public transport, don't be. The much feared white elephant of unused public transport has never appeared in this country because investment I it has been way below minimum for decades.

    We built a full spec motorway to tuam of all places that scarcely sees any traffic at a cost greater than a Limerick commuter rail service. A frequent reliable rail service will of course be well used in Limerick. The strategy also neglects to mention that its basis for predicting low demand for rail is predicated on current road capacity. However most likely city centres will have their road capacity greatly reduced or removed entirely in the coming years and thats when the demand for public transport including rail really materialises.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,050 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Its not about over investment it's about where to invest. Unless you are doing something really radical like building a massive Limerick-Shannon-Ennis-Gort-Galway commuter belt with all new tracks (which is not on the cards) then Moyross station is just a pointless "investment" in regeneration that politicians can pat themselves on the back with.

    Much better to "reopen" stations at villages like Oola and build houses around the station.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    The planned bus improvements will make these new stations white elephants. Have a look a a map a see how the (single track) line meanders out into to Co Clare before coming back into the city and goes nowhere near any large centers of employment.

    And the very rail line that we're talking about is part of the Limerick Athenry line. A line which clearly disproves your theory that the white elephant of unused public has never appeared in this country.

    If there is a faster method of transport than this train then it will not be used. And taking the bus, cycling, driving, or for some walking, will be a faster way of getting into the city center.

    Rail is not always the answer to PT.



  • Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭Brian Lighthouse


    Brilliant, I was ROTLFLMAO - That's about the logic of it all the same. Heralded, of course, as a genial energy saving "modal shift' in transport and therefor a victory.



  • Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭Brian Lighthouse


    I agree, the bus service is great. I really can't see a train beating it right now. The population is too low right now and the city is so small, it cannot justify the money being spent on rail. Dublin, yes, it has the lenght, breadth and population.

    Over the last week I carried out some walks. Walks now.

    I walked from Moyross (Community centre) to Southil (Tait House) it took me just around the 60 minute mark, and I stopped in Mc Donald's for coffee and a muffin. The distance is just short of 6km.

    Last week I walked from The South Court Hotel to Coonagh Cross - A Whopping 8km walking via Shannon Bridge - taking about 80minutes.

    I also walked from the South Court Hotel to Westbury Shopping Centre - Perhaps the widest the city is at a staggering 8.2/8.3km, this time it took me about 1 hour and 45 minutes with stopping for a chat with a few people along the way.

    Now, if that was minutes spent in a car instead of walking - I would be crying our for a LART (Limerick Area Rapid Transit) However, it was just me walking.

    Limerick is a small small city.

    Invest in trains to get people from Ennis to Limerick, Nenagh, Tipp Town, Limerick Junction, Kilmallock etc etc etc, but MOYROSS and BALLYSIMON???

    For reals?

    That is one way to ensure funding never emerges again for rail service.

    Taxpayer: "We gave you €100m in 2022 for two trains staions - they're not being used, and now you are looking for €350m for another train line to moyross?"

    Rail Advocate: "Well, modal shift hadn't been as popular as we thought it would be."



  • Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭Brian Lighthouse


    "If you're concerned that the provision of rail will be over investment in public transport, don't be."

    Thanks for your reply, anychance you could point me to the reports that allay the fears of many people that the proposed rail structures will not be an over investment.

    It's not that I don't believe your comment, I would just, sort of, like to see it for myself in, you know, a report published by named people and what have you.

    Thanks in advance.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,050 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Cork now has a decent commuter train service from towns and villages coming in from a few directions so a smaller version of that would be good.

    What Limerick and Galway really need and it would take little to implement is wider area travel passes. Limerick and Galway have a 1 or 7 day red zone (301-310 for Limerick) Cork has red, green and yellow and Dublin has a ton of colours. No reason we can't have a similar bus pass to get to some of the nearby towns.



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