EV cost comparison to ICE traditional cars

Fiyatoe · 28-04-2022 10:33pm #1

Anyone ever used a tool similar to this fuel cost comparison calculator online?

https://www.zap-map.com/tools/journey-cost-calculator/

very interesting. I don’t do massive miles, maybe 8,000 miles per year. (13,000 km) but that could go up to 15-20K miles soon for work in Dublin from Mid Ulster .

i expected more savings to be quite honest and I’m disappointed.

the EV in question was a new Hyundai Ioniq 5, the 58KW version (although I probably need the 73/77KW version?)

vs a 2014 Peugeot 308 active hdi

the savings wouldn’t be enough to make me change unless you do big miles. Makes you wonder, for people doing very low city / village miles- apart from the environmental impact, they probably aren’t saving you a whole pile at all providing you already have a car that’s cheap to run.

my electric unit rate in ulster is 22pence per Kw, diesel was put in at £1.70 per litre which is on the high side to cover increase, that’s about €2 per litre

as has been pointed out on here - a night saver meter is something I should definitely ask to get installed by Power NI / SSE. I see from a quick Google search there are EV night saver off peak rates

220 mile return trip from here to Dublin would cost £14 of electric in the brand new Hyundai, and £28 in the Peugeot in diesel. That’s a round trip driving to the office one day per week.

the Hyundai costs £40K roughly brand new, before you look for a charger and get setup at home properly.

The Peugeot costs me nothing at the moment as I own it, and is worth maybe £4.5K.

Over a year if I Spend £1500 on diesel , the EV will cost £750 on electric.

the ROI for the EV would take quite a number of years to justify the saving of no diesel.

Hardly a lot to get excited about. Just an observation I was shocked about. Not on to slate EVs. Obviously ICE cars need servicing and have more parts.

id love to be corrected or any flaws in these calculators pointed out to me by people on here a lot more knowledgable than I am on the topic.

Believe me I’d love to be convinced to switch over. But at the above I wouldn’t be rushing to my local dealer to order one for 2023 and pay big money every month to finance the EV.

I’ll admit the Peugeot is also quite an economic diesel, hard to get much better mpg.

Gumbo · 28-04-2022 11:25pm

Not to correct any flaws, but your comparing from another jurisdiction.

Here in the South of Ireland, night rate kWh pricing is about 12c. Which is considerably lower than the unit rate you’ve used. Also, our diesel is hovering around €1.90 a litre. So this 2 alterations to the maths will make a difference straight away.

You are also comparing the cost of buying a new car V keeping an older car on the road. Any new car will fail here, and buying a new car to save money is a bad financial decision.

The trick is, if your buying a new car tomorrow, irrespective, can you consider an EV to suit your needs.

Using your example above, I randomly choose a 100 mile trip using the typical costs here of 12c per kWh and 1.90 for diesel and the costs are €16 for the diesel and €3.46 for the EV. That’s a decent saving before you consider the lower motor tax, insurance costs and potential lower service costs.

kuang1 · 29-04-2022 12:07am

I would also add that for the medium term, the depreciation on a new EV is going to be minimal.

It's an asset that will hold its value extremely well for the next 3/4 years at least. Possibly a lot longer depending on geopolitical developments.

kanuseeme · 29-04-2022 12:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058243702/ev-cost-comparison-to-ice-traditional-cars

Would the 58KW version do 220 miles without driving slow? if not you would have to include a charging session cost and time wasted,

With your maths, it's very hard to see an ROI to justify an EV.

I see petrol is slightly cheaper, so maybe a hybrid or even a PHEV should be considered when the time comes to purchase.

This PHEV will do 38 miles on electricity and is 2k less https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108096029251?sort=relevance&year-from=new&advertising-location=at_cars&make=Hyundai&radius=1500&postcode=l211la&include-delivery-option=on&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&fuel-type=Petrol%20Plug-in%20Hybrid&page=1

29-04-2022 4:37am

Protestant electricity is very expensive

29-04-2022 6:00am

Unless you’re going from average mileage to humongous mileage per year, focusing solely on cost of fuel is only part of the picture and yes, your “saving” may be quite small -you need to also look at servicing, rate of depreciation cost of credit impact on tax and insurance etc

If you’re never going to do massive mileage a second hand ICE with a decent guarantee and good mpg might see you fine - If you went for a new ev over a new ICE, my own view is that rate of depreciation of EV will be lower over the next number of years and servicing will obviously be less - if you believe predictions on petrol/diesel prices at the pumps, then up is the only way - same with electricity costs but maybe not as much

fits · 29-04-2022 6:19am

It’s almost always cheaper to keep the car you have. But if you’re buying a new car anyway it’s almost always more sensible to purchase an ev.

raxy · 29-04-2022 6:37am

I just put my car into it & the mpg for it is way off. I've a diesel megane & it costs me 10c per km but that calculator is saying diesel would be 18c, nearly twice what I'm getting using the fill up app to track l/100km. I wonder how accurate the electricity calcs are or where they are taking the figures from. Maybe the worst reported mpg rate for my car?

Burti16 · 29-04-2022 6:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118991259#Comment_118991259

I wouldn't completely agree with this. Depreciation is higher in EV because of shorter lifespan of batteries and almost non-viable replacement costs. This situation can be changed once someone discover more durable and easily replaceable battery type though. I couldn't find exactly but in somewhere it was saying EV batteries are losing 10% of storing capacity each year.

Fiyatoe · 29-04-2022 6:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118991205#Comment_118991205

Brilliant, makes sense @Gumbo

i lived in Dublin for a few years up until this year. My apartment had a night saver meter

hopefully this is something I can look at with NI electricity . I only bought this house 3 months ago, but it doesn’t have a night saver on at the minute

on the sterling to euro - had to check this morning, local garage is actually doing diesel around £1.61 which matches your €1.90

Fiyatoe · 29-04-2022 6:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118991382#Comment_118991382

Haha we aren’t all orange as soon as you pass Monaghan/Louth @Phileas Frog

I actually find a massive difference cost wise vs living in a 2bed Dublin apartment . Electric Ireland costs for 2 people were maybe €1500 a year.

both of us now living in a standard 2,000 sq ft 4 bed detached house and the electricity from January - end of April has been €180 in total

Fiyatoe · 29-04-2022 7:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118991301#Comment_118991301

Would probably have to buy the 73/77KW version yes @kanuseeme and don’t think I can afford a Tesla!

that’s what I was asking local dealer about the HI5. I’d be one for “horsing the car on” down the M1/M50. Is this going to eat into the range of the EV more so than driving an ICE hard?

anyway NI Dealers can’t get them to 2023 now, only tried 2 yesterday, Charles Hurst and another.

best bet is most likely collect one in England or get it taken home

Fiyatoe · 29-04-2022 7:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118991478#Comment_118991478

is anyone who’s had an EV long enough able to quote how much they are to replace ?

JimmyVik · 29-04-2022 7:12am

How much was a 30kwh Nissan Leaf in 2016?

How much is it worth now 6 years later?

I think there is significant depreciation in EVs

Fiyatoe · 29-04-2022 7:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118991543#Comment_118991543

Were they big money when they came out?

must do a search on the other big names I can think of that I saw when living in Dublin over the last few years, a Prius, the small BMW (i3)?

im guessing Tesla hold their price

Fiyatoe · 29-04-2022 7:16am

Brother spotted one last night on way to Dublin. Think I’ve seen one so far up here

JimmyVik · 29-04-2022 7:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118991549#Comment_118991549

I saw someone on here say they bought one new for €15k in 2016, but thats a lie. They were over €30k.

Still seem cheap compared to what you have to pay for a new EV now though :)

Fiyatoe · 29-04-2022 7:33am

on the contrary, was looking at this before an EV, not as economical as the Peugeot, but love the car. Roughly £16K less than the new Hyundai also.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202204234957886?advertising-location=at_cars&year-from=2018&maximum-mileage=80000&price-to=25000&postcode=Bt808wd&sort=price-desc&co2-emissions-cars=TO_120&fuel-type=Diesel&include-delivery-option=on&transmission=Automatic&model=A6%20Saloon&page=1&aggregatedTrim=S%20line&fuel-consumption=OVER_50&make=Audi&percentVehiclePriceDeposit=true

10-10-20 · 29-04-2022 7:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118991556#Comment_118991556

I was up in Belfast last weekend. I didn't see a single NI reg'd EV. All of the EV's which I saw were ROI reg'd.

I found that kinda-odd. But then again the charger network explains some of that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118991518#Comment_118991518

Yep, range drops if you horse it.

My Kona gets 14.6kWh/100km at about 110km/hr. That's about 400km from a 64kW battery (100% to 0%).

At 130km/hr you'll get about 21.2kWh/100km. That's about 300km from a 64kW battery (100% to 0%).

Never-the-less, the total cost of motoring is much less, especially at a night-rate.

Fiyatoe · 29-04-2022 8:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118991687#Comment_118991687

That’s great stats from the Kona, cheers @10-10-20 must look at what money they are

i don’t have a clue what the charging network is like up here, probably a good idea I do look at it. Apart from my local town and a 20km radius I only ever travel to Dublin for work or Kildare to the in laws. Rarely anywhere else.

so a home charger and work charger and the network down south would probably suffice for me.

there are a lot more EVs up here now, but a lot of them English reg. they have the green banding around the yellow plate when they’re EV.

10-10-20 · 29-04-2022 8:15am

Play around with this:

https://abetterrouteplanner.com

(edit: It normally shows the chargers on the map, but they don't appear to be loading just now)

JimmyVik · 29-04-2022 8:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118991712#Comment_118991712

IUf you are after a Kona make sure you look at the boot., It looks much bigger than it is when yopu try to stuff things into it. Never driven a car with a boot as bad as the Kona.

Gumbo · 29-04-2022 8:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118991580#Comment_118991580

There was a small time where Nissan dealers were selling off the L30 before the refreshed L40 arrived.

So a brand new car at €15k was correct. I posted a picture of the Nissan ad a few years ago.

innrain · 29-04-2022 9:14am

308 has an EV version. So it is easy to compare prices for both new. I see no point in comparing one new one past half life. I think they are about 3k difference at the cheapest trim although if you want to have the same bhp ICE might catch up.

https://media.peugeot.ie/file/21/6/peugeot-passenger-cars-retail-price-list.pdf

If people want to talk depreciation I'd like to see arguments cause I know people who have better arg showing opposite.

kuang1 · 29-04-2022 9:29am

My comment on depreciation probably wasn't descriptive enough.

Say I buy a Kia ev6 for €50,000 (net, after grant applied etc) this year.

Based on:

current (and projected) availability of materials and components,

the acceleration in demand for EVs that looks set to continue,

unrest in Ukraine,

inflation globally looking like its already ramping up,

Then my ev6 isn't going to be worth less than €45,000 in 3 years time. Only an opinion of course!

And that's without discussing the durability of the car and battery... Batteries don't start properly deteriorating for the first 7/8 years of normal use as I understand it?

Also grants for these cars won't continue indefinitely either.

Fiyatoe · 29-04-2022 9:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118991753#Comment_118991753

can't get the chargers on the map either, must look up alternatives I'm sure there are plenty. I just know of the applegreens on m1

Fiyatoe · 29-04-2022 10:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992173#Comment_118992173

still €45K in 3 years time! that would be a great outcome. You could be right, the way ICE used cars have held their price and even increased recently.

29-04-2022 10:35am

The only way values will maintain that long is if inflation continues apace, in which case values will fall in real terms. And I say that as someone who got a new car last year which is now worth more. In real terms inflation is about 8% (and my pay didn't go up by much) so there's hidden depreciation there.

kuang1 · 29-04-2022 10:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992493#Comment_118992493

Yep very true.

Although if you were fortunate enough to be able to buy as a cash buyer now, that would offset that further.

innrain · 29-04-2022 10:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992173#Comment_118992173

I was referring to post #9. There are people here who actually made profits from selling their used EV and that is before the war. Unlike for ICE, batteries in EVs are a comodity which has value. Say my 64kWh will have 30% loss. It will still hold 45 kWh energy. Even when the car depreciate that nobody wants it anymore still has the capacity to serve as static energy storage, a market which right now develops. Even after that the price of raw materials in the battery would hold some value. Leaf is a bad example as it has a tiny battery by today standards but still holds the value well for what it is.

I bought a Kona in 2019 for 38k. I would easily sell it today for 30k wich is surprising given that in 2019 it was the only option of a long range car while now there are many.

raxy · 29-04-2022 10:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992555#Comment_118992555

How do you know you will easily sell it for 30k?

There are 2 electric konas on carzone. 29k & 31k. You'd be doing well to get 30k if dealers are selling for the same price.

I looked at Honda civics recently. 4 year old were being sold for 22k but a new car was 30-32k. That's a similar depreciation.

Fiyatoe · 29-04-2022 11:02am

similar depreciation it could be argued to buying a brand new ICE and it being sold at 4 year old.

BENDYBINN · 29-04-2022 11:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118991205#Comment_118991205

A bit economical with the truth here

if your on night rate electric your payin a premium during the day ...

Also assuming no public charging at 50cent kWh at present.......

raxy · 29-04-2022 11:18am

There'll be a jump in night rates if they push us all onto smart meter rates as well.

Will they allow anyone not on a day/night rate before to choose that option now?

kanuseeme · 29-04-2022 12:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118991606#Comment_118991606

Buying 2nd hand is the best way to reduce depreciation, first couple of years take a massive hit in a normal market.

So many options when you still have access to the UK market. I know the UK gov are increasing charges/tax for diesel cars, I am not familiar on there impact in the North,

I would still recommend looking at hybrid or plug in hybrids, https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112080335728?maximum-mileage=80000&radius=1500&advertising-location=at_cars&year-from=2018&include-delivery-option=on&sort=price-asc&postcode=bs11db&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&fuel-type=Diesel%20Plug-in%20Hybrid&fuel-type=Petrol%20Plug-in%20Hybrid&make=Mercedes-Benz&page=2

Gumbo · 29-04-2022 1:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992638#Comment_118992638

I haven’t used public charging in over 3 years. So no, I’m not economical with the truth.

The increased standing charge would be balanced out for someone doing the charging 100% at home.

Gumbo · 29-04-2022 1:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118993055#Comment_118993055

VAT would kill the import of any car from the uk.

kanuseeme · 29-04-2022 2:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118993631#Comment_118993631

He lives in Northern Ireland, so he can purchase from the UK no problem, access to both markets.

Gumbo · 29-04-2022 2:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118993838#Comment_118993838

Completely forgot that.

Most definitely an option now.

Killer K · 01-05-2022 10:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118993055#Comment_118993055

If going premium I would look towards a BMW 530e or 330e rather than that Merc. Once they hit about 70k miles they give a world of trouble.

Fiyatoe · 02-05-2022 8:40am

test drove BMWs a few times and I don’t know why but I’d take Audi / VW every day of the week over them. Just don’t like how they drive.

EV cost comparison to ICE traditional cars

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