Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

So UFOs aren't a theory anymore - but we still don't know what they are

Options
1568101145

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    No problem with disbelief, as many people need that experience to have a different perspective and outlook. The only problem I have is with people who believe UFOs are all a delusion because they have been told that all their lives by a particular media personality or someone they have listened to for all their life tells them so. Shaped by the environment in which you live. The views of debunkers are shaped by their upbringing and their experiences. When get angry over someone having a believe than doesnt match theres whats the point of messaging that person back. Debunkers love personal attacks. Everyone makes mistakes, including me, but I don't feel the need to lash out at the other person. For me, that's a flaw of character so emotionally unstable that you find it necessary to hurt someone else. Make your argument while being civil.  



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    It's not really relevant to the thread. You haven't answered my question and you have been mischaracterising my statement in your posts, so I don't feel particularly compelled to waste effort in elaborating further.


    Answer my question first.

    Why do you believe that paranormal claims can't all be wrong because of their volume?



  • Registered Users Posts: 187 ✭✭gladvimpaker


    You made a claim you've experienced delusional episodes back it up....

    A debunker needs to validate his delusions....it's important because then I'll know what kind of character I'm having a discussion with. If you're off the wall bat sht crazy we can just put each other on ignore... Tell us all what you've experienced.



  • Registered Users Posts: 187 ✭✭gladvimpaker


    Absolutely spot on, I think it's easier when people have an interest in a subject matter.

    Have you ever watched anything about Skinwalker ranch or listened to bedtime stories on YouTube it's very interesting the stories which have come out of those places.

    I have always had an interest in UFO's and the paranormal, I'm not religious or into the whole God thing but I'm facinated by Irish folklore and the púca etc

    I'm oblivious to people lashing out or trying to confobulate a discussion.

    I'm around too long to take notice of the likes of people who try to control the dynamics or narrative of a situation.

    Where about have you seen the crafts etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Lol. Again you're misrepresenting things I've said and demanding proof. But at the same time you're avoiding a simple question I've asked you.


    I think it's clear what kind of character you are. Seems to be a common type among conspiracy theorists.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


     Keep my experiences to myself, don't need to deal with debunkers on here since it isn't worth my time. Just to clarify, I was not alone. There were people in my life who were there at different times and witnessed it as well. There is no weird hallucination in this.

    I have watched both seasons, and there is some interesting material, but nothing that will change people's perspectives. Season 3 is out soon, check it out.  

    I believe that if contact occurs and the pilots can communicate with us, we will discover that earth's history is a whole lot different than we believe it to be. I believe that perhaps the earth has been subject to numerous cycles of change that ended civilization. Today's civilization is merely the product of the present.



  • Registered Users Posts: 187 ✭✭gladvimpaker


    Im not a conspiracy theorist, if you scroll back you'll see I mentioned pareidolia can sometimes be the cause of some people seeing things which are not really there. But there's good honest people who have described seeing things which are unexplainable.

    There's online footage of it from the media and American military footage too.

    King mob tell us your episode of experiencing something out of the ordinary and how you realized it wasn't real. You're shying away now and trying to brush it under the carpet. Be a good sport and tell us your story. Even if you debunked it all by yourself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Sure. If you finally address the question I've asked you four times now.


    Why does the volume of claims make it impossible for all of them to be wrong?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,936 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    You claimed that if enough people claim to see something, there must be "some truth to it"

    Okay. Large numbers of people claimed to have seen fairies, mermaids and the Loch Ness monster. Does that mean they exist? The answer is no. Even you know that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 187 ✭✭gladvimpaker


    You're better off keeping your experiences to yourself. I just put that dude on ignore can't be dealing with people online asking the same questions over and over. And I'm not here to prove anything I just like discussing these things without being interrupted by a person jumping up and down asking questions like a five year old. They came in straight off the bat being all confrontational and trying to ruin the discussion. If we were discussing something which is dangerous or putting anyone in harm's way by all means I'd understand if someone was being confrontational or strident.

    Anyhow I wondered at times are these objects probs and pilotless or like you suggested that they could have people piloting them. Could they be probs too ?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 187 ✭✭gladvimpaker


    I've never come across anyone claiming to be seeing fairies, the lough ness monster or mermaids.

    So I can't say they're true.

    But our observation is limited to what we are used to seeing. Supposedly when the Spaniards arrived on tall ships to America the natives couldn't see the big ships arriving from the horizon until gradually they got used to it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,936 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    You don't have to come across these people personally, it's well documented. In the case of the "Loch Ness monster", many people claimed to have seen it. People lie, they can also delude themselves (as demonstrated by psychologists)

    Do you believe in ghosts? If yes, you are more likely to believe you have seen a ghost.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Lol you lads are very brave like that.

    You could just answer the questions directly and on the first try like I did with your question.

    But, part of my experience was that difficult questions that challenge the assumptions behind beliefs tend to make you doubt them when the answers are avoided.


    I do also like how you are decrying people with "silly beliefs" while buddying up to a fellow who's an avowed 9/11 truther and holocaust denier.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    The same argument gets applied to religion a lot as well.

    "Two billion Christians can't possibly be all wrong." They say while ignoring the 5 billion who aren't Christian. And ignoring that those 2 billion Christians can believe wildly different and opposing things.



  • Registered Users Posts: 187 ✭✭gladvimpaker


    Psychologists differ in opinion. Even if a ghost is a figment of the imagination it's still a ghost.

    It exists in the persons head.

    Like UFO's or people talking about abductions, near death experiences the hag or you might call it sleep paralysis. Yes psychologists may have the answer.

    But as the thread is about UFO's or UAP's I definitely think there's something else out there for sure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,936 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    As a space enthusiast, statistically speaking, I am sure we aren't alone in the universe. However interstellar travel is so mind-bogglingly complex that if any extra-terrestrial race did hypothetically master it, we'd have utterly no idea they were observing us.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm coming across as belligerent because your entire argument is built on sand and it is crumbling before you.

    I asked you four separate questions in my post and you didn't even come close to acknowledging those questions, never mind answering them. It's like having a conversation with a mental patient.

    You're claiming things as fact, others are pointing out that you are, in fact, completely wrong about that, then you just flounce off on another tangent because you either a) don't understand the topic, b) don't understand the points being made about that topic, c) cannot answer any questions about the topic without showing that your entire premise is flawed, d) are taking the piss or e) all of the above.

    Prediction: you won't address any of the previous paragraph except to say something like "well, if you're gonna call me a mental patient then we're done here". This is proof positive of point c above.

    Case in point:

    My previous post told you that you are using the term UFOs interchangeably with "spaceships". I told you this is confusing and yet you immediately start your response by continuing along this path. In your mind UFOs = Aliens. This is the way a 9 year old thinks. There have been countless unidentified objects over the years, the vast majority of which have then been explained in due course. Of those that remain, not one has been taken as confirmation of extra-terrestrial life by anyone with any sort of clout in a relevant field. Not a single one. Anyone suggesting otherwise is usually not the sharpest bulb in the toolbox.

    You said "During the last few years, senators and leaders in different fields of science, who believed that the topic was merely a myth and only witnessed by farmers and crazy people". You are quite clearly speaking about alien ships here. Alien ships ARE merely a myth and only witnessed by crazy people.

    UFOs, on the other hand, are not a myth. Something that flies but we don't have any explanation for is a UFO. There was an insect in my bathroom the other day, never seen one before and don't know what it was. Technically, that's a UFO. It's not an alien and its existence hasn't been denied by anyone. But it's still a UFO. The US government coming out and saying "Yes, there are things that fly and we've no idea what they are" does not equal them saying "Aliens, now 100% fact", which is how you and others are trying to portray it.

    Your logical leaps are completely flawed. Here's another example:

    The US accepts that there are genuine real objects in the sky that don't have wings or recognizable propulsion mechanisms, no windows, and that human-designed aircraft have all these features. Many of this craft are going hypersonic or faster as they fly around the earth's atmosphere.

    The US does in fact accept that there are genuine real objects in the sky that don't have wings or recognizable propulsion mechanisms, no windows, and that human-designed aircraft have all these features. However, the US does not state that these are actually spacecraft. They're simply saying "these exist, and we either don't know what they are or they're ours and we're pretending we don't know what they are so we don't have to show our hand". That's it. Your next line goes on to say....."Many of this craft are going hypersonic......" but you made the assumption that they're craft in your own head. Nobody said they were craft. You're just taking it for granted because, again, UFOs = alien spaceships in your mind.

    In another part of your post you say "now they are saying that the craft is solid and real and that their performance can be seen by the US military". They 100% are not saying that. You're the one putting the word "craft" into that sentence to fit your pre-conceived notion that they're talking about spaceships, when they're talking about UFOs.

    Can you at least acknowledge that UFOs and Alien spaceships are two completely different things, the first of which is very common and the second of which has not yet been proven to exist?



  • Registered Users Posts: 187 ✭✭gladvimpaker


    I'd say their observations would be quiet interesting.

    Hey look down there they have powerful weapons and it's pointed at themselves.... They'll come back a few decades later and see all we have is sticks and stones again, looks like they learned the hard way rince and repeat



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    You also have the chances of two civilisations coming into being, developing ways to travel and happening to travel to the same place that the other civilisation exists in the same period of time that the other civilisation actually exists and either doesn't yet exist, or wiped itself out billions of years before such that their previous existence is not detectable... Well that may as well be zero.


    Chances of their being other intelligent life in the universe, virtually certain.

    Chances of two independently developing forms of intelligent life ever meeting each other, virtually impossible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Then the chances of one of those civilizations sending missions to the other faster than light only to buzz around and forget to turn off their landing lights for some reason.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    But you need to leave the landing lights on so you can attract the local lifeforms which you then use your probe on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,936 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Oddly enough it's nearly always Americans, specifically rednecks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    You went on a rant about how my information was made up. Described the source of my information. I responded to your question concerning amnesties. 

     Next. 

    Your entire post centered around your argument against the use of the term UFO to refer to something not related to alien spacecraft, as well as the views of the Pentagon and the US government.In the media and among the human population, the term UFO has long been associated with visitors from outer space. However, this hypothesis is not based on fact. 

     As UFO studies have been around for over sixty years, UFO has consistently been used as a way to refer to this strange craft unknown that moves about our skies. UFO is a crucial piece of what makes up a mystery or unknown flying phenomenon.

    In the United States, they are now called UAPs (unidentified aerial platforms) due to the stigma associated with the term UFOS. In the absence of a better term for the objects seen, we have to use the term UFO or UAP. Can you think of another term to describe the unknown craft, since you're annoyed that I use it? The point you make (end of your post statement) is that UFO does not mean aliens (correct). Starting with a new definition that is unfamiliar to people is very confusing for the broader public!!.

    Do you still not understand what a theory is and why people speculate here for reasons that are very obvious here? 

    The Pentagon admits that the craft's movement and characteristics are unknown to them ( just a fact), and they also claim the craft is not experimental from Area 51 or other test sites ( just a fact) and does not come from China or Russia( last fact) There is a variety of intelligence about the objects that have been gathered over the past sixty years, and many of them have been observed up close and in person by military personnel. Perhaps you can't imagine that these flying crafts are not human made, but the Pentagon accepted it as highly likely. 

    All that cannot be verified here is who are the pilots (if they know the Pentagon saying nothing), are they controlling the ship, or is it an AI-controlled craft, on some surveillance mission to earth to do god knows what, this is all permissible speculation based on what we know. Again you may dispute the craft might be alien, but that is valid speculation based on the observables and data. In addition to being witnesses, fighter pilots are also government employees. Fravor is a highly decorated wing commander, so do you think he was chasing flies and balloons? Are you convinced that the most advanced radar systems on the Princeton and Nimitz aircraft carrier cannot distinguish between man-made objects and unknown objects, 

    According to what they are saying, what do you think the objects are? Let us know. Throughout the event, four members of the pilot and co-pilot crews observed a solid object, while another pilot, on another day, captured it on camera from a mile away.,I believe. Dispute their version of the encounter with the UAP?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    You have your stories of abductions and encounters with aliens. As far as I am aware, there are descriptions of Reptilian and lizard-like aliens with black eyes and no hair and small bodies. Alien supposedly and allegedly found at Roswell. You also have the Travis Walton UFO case, where blonde humans with nordic looks are on the same spacecraft as beings known as Greys in Ufology. My knowledge of the pilots is limited to theories and speculation. Even humans are contemplating the possibility of using artificial intelligence to pilot a craft or to control it through mind control. 



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    You are not dealing with humans here who have a cycle of development similar to our own. Evidence is the craft's speed in the atmosphere, and there is also information indicating the craft is capable of traveling under the ocean. One cannot assume to know what lies beyond the Earth. A race from another planet may be traveling here at incredible speeds, as witnessed only in Star Trek, and there may be ways unknown to us to move through space at a faster pace. What would a civilization from thousands of years ago think if you were to send by way of time a car? If they were looking at the engine under the hood they would have no idea what it was. Humanity possesses a curious quality - we know we exist, so we are aware that life may occur elsewhere, and obviously, with the right conditions, it did. We can't get there right now but in 10,000 years or more we might be out there like in Star Trek if we don't blow ourselves up.  



  • Registered Users Posts: 187 ✭✭gladvimpaker


    I read about the Nordics, I even went down the rabbit hole about them being on bases in Antarctica.

    I used to wonder were the grey's who were with the Nordics some kind of pet or slave, like a trained dog or drone worker's like in a bee hive.

    I also heard the hypothesis that those tictac objects could be some kind of life which is elusive or organic crafts a bit like the specie's crafts 8472 in startrek.

    The possibilities far outweigh the impossible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    UAP stands for unidentified aerial phenomena. Not platform.


    Also I doubt very much that a holocaust denier and serial liar really understands Star Trek all that much.

    (You're the bad guy in a lot of episodes.)



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,936 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    I don't know where to start with this.

    If some hypothetical extra-terrestrial race could manage interstellar travel, we wouldn't have any idea they were observing us. They certainly wouldn't be flying around being "just out of focus" all the time.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    First of all, you never answered any of the questions I asked. Feel free to go back and check, but I know you didn't.

    Your entire post centered around your argument against the use of the term UFO to refer to something not related to alien spacecraft, as well as the views of the Pentagon and the US government.In the media and among the human population, the term UFO has long been associated with visitors from outer space. However, this hypothesis is not based on fact. 

    Your first sentence doesn't make any sense. The Govt has acknowledged that there are things flying about which they cannot explain. They have not acknowledged that these things are alien spacecraft. And yes, the term has long been associated with visitors from outer space. In SCI-FI and other works of fiction. Not in the white house, which is what you have been claiming in this thread.

    In the United States, they are now called UAPs (unidentified aerial platforms) due to the stigma associated with the term UFOS. In the absence of a better term for the objects seen, we have to use the term UFO or UAP. 

    Why am I not surprised that you haven't a clue what you're talking about. You learned of the phrase UAP this week, didn't you?

    Can you think of another term to describe the unknown craft, since you're annoyed that I use it? The point you make (end of your post statement) is that UFO does not mean aliens (correct). Starting with a new definition that is unfamiliar to people is very confusing for the broader public!!.

    What unknown craft? There aren't any, you're taking the govt's words about unknown objects and you're calling them craft when they are anything but that.

    Do you still not understand what a theory is and why people speculate here for reasons that are very obvious here? 

    You're not theorising or speculating anything. You're claiming stuff as fact when it's all made up in your head. Case in point.....

    The Pentagon admits that the craft's movement and characteristics are unknown to them ( just a fact), and they also claim the craft is not experimental from Area 51 or other test sites ( just a fact) and does not come from China or Russia( last fact) There is a variety of intelligence about the objects that have been gathered over the past sixty years, and many of them have been observed up close and in person by military personnel. Perhaps you can't imagine that these flying crafts are not human made, but the Pentagon accepted it as highly likely. 

    Where have the pentagon acknowledged that something caught on cam was a "craft" and where have they said that the "craft" has extra-terrestrial origins?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    In the course of two posts, I countered almost everything you said. If you do not agree with the responses, that is your prerogative.

     Now you have a third post griping about the word craft, it’s all so silly.

    Saying that my views don't make sense, Yada yada, then you go on to claim that the US government is unable to explain some of the objects flying around on earth. Doublespeak-like way of thinking,

    I acknowledged that UFOs do not necessarily mean aliens, but you are incapable of recognizing when someone accepts you have a point. U.S. and Pentagon officials have said they cannot rule out the possibility that what pilots are seeing is craft from another world. The findings of this study have been widely reported in the media and on many blogs. If you disagree, please share your alternative information, Instead of saying wrong wrong wrong, clueless, etc. 

    Donald Trump was the last President to address the topic and stated in an interview he had been briefed on it. As a result, both the staff of the White House and the Presidents are knowledgeable about the latest developments when it comes to these topics.

    Now there is another frivolous rant about what Unknown Objects are. Please stop claiming they are aliens or alien craft????

    Shifty logic all over the place. Why are you getting pissed off at the believers calling them craft if they're flying, not responding to calls, and demonstrating performance abilities beyond our knowledge of physics? Would calling them aerial vehicles be acceptable in Shifty's world? It is only because your worldview assumes any nonhuman craft could not be here that people like you are upset by this. It essentially comes down to incredulity on your part.

    Literature about this strange craft, official documents documenting them, Pentagon documents about them, radar returns of them, high orbit photographs of them, and videos, some of it we have seen, while other stuff is still classified. How do I know this? Luis Elizondo has stated all this on record. Don't completely trust him. However, he was the head of the Pentagon's UFO program. To date, all of his statements have proven to be true.

    For me, David Fravor's encounter is a fact, and I don't care what debunkers think. Operating million-dollar fighter jets, and highly decorated aviator, he is not alone in telling the same story. There was another jet providing cover ( another pilot and two co-pilots) seeing the same craft. Fravor engaged in an unarmed dogfight with the tic tac craft. It began coming up from the ocean to meet him, passing near the nose of the plane and disappearing within seconds. Fravor confirms the object in question is not created by humans. It has no visible engine, no windows, and is solid and white. Radar picked it up sixty miles away after it left the scene. The amazing thing was that it moved sixty miles in a second to two, that kind of capability would kill a human pilot, it's like super extreme hypersonic, I can't even describe the magnitude of that kind of speed/acceleration

    The last point you quoted. ATTIP (Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program) was unable to locate the vehicles in military aviation inventory in the United States. ATTIP also determined that it is unlikely the vehicles come from Russia or China. Then who is running them if not the Americans, the Chinese, or the Russians? Smart people than you and I consider all options on table one being aliens. It is okay if you reject the idea that aliens are here. However, many people believe aliens could be operating this unknown craft. 



Advertisement