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Minimum Wage - How can you survive ?

  • 29-04-2022 9:03am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭


    Met two people this week working minimum wage both going packing in their jobs because they cant survive on the minimum wage plus their treated very poorly at best.

    One works in a manufacturing factory where there was some issue with a machine which stalled production which meant they had to ring the boss in some corporate tent at Punchestown racecourse which resulted in them been fcuked out of it and threatened with their pay been docked this week over machine going down and wait till i get back to the office threats etc etc.

    The other works in a well known fast food chain and burned her hand with cooking oil and was given a bit of spray to keep going or you'll be sacked plus you still owe us X Euro for your uniform.She sleeps on a couch in a friends house as she cant afford to rent anywhere presently.

    How are people supposed to live renting on minimum wage? Is it any wonder some employers cant get staff. They could do what Keelings or meat factories do - go to the poorest most desperate part of Bulgaria or Latvia and put them in caravans or 6 to a bedroom . 10.50 minimum wage needs to increase significantly is the bottom line .



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,186 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    In a house share, and/or with significant state support (FIS, HAP).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,295 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Minimum wage jobs are for kids who are still being partially supported by their parents, and students. Many student jobs now pay €11+

    People with impairments which mean they will never obtain better jobs get long term support from HAP/social housing, medical card etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,632 ✭✭✭Aint Eazy Being Cheezy


    I’m awaiting the comment stating that you’re not meant to be able to “survive” on minimum wage, that you progress your career & move up the ladder etc etc


    Load of horseshyte. Poor Government policies over the past 3 decades caused this. Either vote for SF or learn a new language and then pack your bags, that’s the 2 options available to our college kids nowadays.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭Quitelife


    Would a single person get FIS, didnt think so?

    if you get 400 euro net for 40 hours work would you rent somewhere ie a house share 200 a week ? leaves you with 200 to feed , clouth yourself and get to work? Dole cant be much less



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭Quitelife


    Theres still a share of unqualified people in their 40s 50s and 60s who have no qualifications who work minimum wage jobs.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,688 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    You think a vote for SF will solve matters?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 962 ✭✭✭DarkJager21


    What is horseshite about upskilling and bettering yourself to get a better paycheck? How is that anything to do with the government?

    As for voting SF 🤣🤣 SF are not going to do anything for the working man (a.k.a the magic money tree that will pay for all the free houses and whatever else they are promising to give people)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,224 ✭✭✭Tow


    When I was young we had bedsits. They were the bottom rung on the property ladder. But the government banned them, with no replacement. Now days people cannot afford the bottom rung, find them selves homeless.

    When is the money (including lost growth) Michael Noonan took in the Pension Levy going to be paid back?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,894 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    many people don't realise either how expensive it is being poor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭Quitelife


    Theres no doubt theres a lot of profitable Businesses that could pay their staff quite a bit more than minimum wage but prefer to make the top table incredibly rich rather than treat their staff more fairly . Greed and no morals is whats its called .

    Some bosses enjoy looking at their staff knowing they've nothing and a weeks pay away from homelessness.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Either vote for SF or learn a new language and then pack your bags, that’s the 2 options available to our college kids nowadays.

    Voting SF would change nothing. They're part of the same political system as the rest of them. Big on words, soft on actually doing anything useful.

    Secondly, you don't need to learn a new language. English is useful all around the world, and you can get your start with TEFL, which after a year or two, you can easily earn enough abroad, to finance your need for an advanced degree, which leads to other options.

    But I agree.. the best option for anyone on min-wage, (and likely to stay there), is to go abroad where being a foreigner is an asset. All the same, there are a variety of options in Ireland for further education, based on your income (or your gender) to allow the move into better employment positions. Alternatively, the internet provides a lot of scope for anyone who has the dedication to stick at learning, which sets you up for better employment.

    People are responsible for their own situations. Yes, Ireland is expensive, but there are a wide range of supports available if someone is willing to jump through the required hoops.

    ----

    Still I'm curious to see the posts per the OPs question about how people survive on min wage. Ireland is an expensive country, and is going to become much more expensive as inflation seriously kicks in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,657 ✭✭✭✭road_high




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There's also those middle aged who are qualified in general degrees like business, and have past experience, but the recruiters ignore them.. leaving them stuck with min waged jobs. I feel their pain.. as I've been looking for work for the last year in Ireland (I work online atm, and wanted to transition to living in Ireland) and it's bloody hard to find anything outside of Dublin. Plenty of advertisements, but no response from applications (I have advanced degrees, but my experience in that area is sadly out of date). After a year of it, I'm ready to give up, and go back abroad again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,186 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Nothing is structured for single people on low wages. Was going to say "these days" but its been that way for decades if not ever really.

    Until equal pay legislation it was common for a single man to be paid less than a married man (and a woman to be paid less than both) doing the same work in the same job. Even civil service pay scales!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭Quitelife


    An interesting story. Outside of your qualifications you'd imagine experienced , problem solving older staff who have a head on their shoulders would be in demand and they'd be more loyal to the employer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,632 ✭✭✭Aint Eazy Being Cheezy


    I didn’t mean that upskilling was horseshyte, just the notion that people shouldn’t feel entitled to a certain lifestyle even on the minimum wage.


    If it’s necessary to live multiple to a room/house in order to survive, that’s a sign of a failed housing policy. It doesn’t take into account the needs of a whole section of society. Students, the unskilled and single adults who may also need to support a previous relationship/family in addition to themselves.


    Folks scoff at Sinn Fein but I’ve yet to be convinced that the FFG duopoly are going to suddenly come up with the answers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,868 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Oh look another Ireland is a kip thread.

    From someone who probably has never been outside of Ireland only to sunny Spain or Paris.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    I fully agree with this and here's an example. A large food producer in the north east is the finest example of this. Major turnover of staff with majority on minimum wage. Sh1t hours where staff are just told randomly at 5.50pm that they are staying until 10pm. If an employee seeks a pay increase the reply is that they pay the position, not the person. One of the attitudes openly spoken by boss to others about the staff is you have to keep them down.

    I don't think it will ever change in companies like this. They are rubbing their hands together with this war but what can you do, people want their super 6.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So I've often been told (at least that was the logic years ago)... but Ireland marches to a different beat than other countries.

    I've spoken to a variety of old friends who are established here, and the response tends to be "it is what it is" rather than any practical explanation of how to get around it.. it's like as if people don't really know what's accepted anymore.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,727 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Isn't it interesting that we're so much more comfortable with giving corporate welfare than giving individuals welfare. The facts are that businesses need cleaners, people to work tills etc. Those people need to live so they need the money from either their job, or government support or a combination of both. We allow businesses to pay wages that are far below the cost of housing and living and then we make up the difference with benefits which are collected through tax. So we all help pay the wages of businesses we might never use.

    So the fast food restaurant pays wages the staff can't live on to keep their costs down, customers get artificially low priced fast food and the tax payer makes up the rest of the worker's wages.

    One option would be to let companies pay the actual cost of living to workers, charge the appropriate price for their food and let customers choose which business they want to use when the cost of labour is actually built in.

    It seems that were happier to spread the cost around to taxpayers whether ot not they use the services, and have more people in employment and use government top up their wages.

    I don't have a huge problem with companies needing to pay the actual cost of living to their staff and changing more for their services. We pay wither way.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Dismiss and deflect without contributing anything. You're the first one to suggest Ireland as being a kip

    Oh.. I've lived/worked in China, Japan, S.Korea, Germany... and travelled to a wide variety of other countries.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    id agree with most of this thread and mosy of yr post tbh but you think students should all have their own houses?


    no doubt FG have done far too little about housing and they have seen the effects at the polls- staggering that they still drag their feet in taking action tbh


    my faith in SF addressing it while running an actual country besides? zero.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,488 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Ireland is a fantastic country. One of the best in the world. The majority are doing quite well, own their own homes, have decent, stable jobs, and a positive outlook on the future.

    However, a growing and sizeable minority do not have the same security and recent events have made things work. It was tough to rent in Ireland back in 2016. 6 years later it's near impossible. No sign of it improving at all in the short term. There are less than a thousand rental properties in the whole country on Daft.

    Say what you want about Brexit and COVID and Ukraine, but these crises didn't start the problems in our country. They only made existing problems worse.

    There are positive steps our government could take regarding the cost of living but vested interests and inaction mean they don't.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,894 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    this is worth a listen - jack monroe, the food poverty campaigner, on how inflation calculations often don't capture inflation for poor people.

    TL;DL - inflation calculations on groceries usually focus on 'middle of the road' items, e.g. standard quality pasta or bread, etc.; but the 'essentials' items supermarkets stock, the very cheap ones, are rarely included in those standard baskets. however, there's been massive inflation on those cheap items, 100% in some of the examples she gives, so while a middle income earner might be spending say 10% more on food now, someone who had been depending on the cheap stuff will have seen a much greater jump.

    (should mention that the focus is the UK in the piece, where brexit is a complication, but i imagine a similar effect is happening here, maybe not as pronounced)



    Post edited by magicbastarder on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,636 ✭✭✭dotsman


    Not sure if trolling and trying to take the piss out of SF voters. But, if you are being serious, then you are the very definition of a SF voter. Absolutely incapable of taking care of yourself and insisting that everyone else wipe your ass for you.

    P.S. The last 3 decades have been phenomenal for Ireland from an Economic term and have been the only 3 decades where, not only have we had a great quality-of-life/standard-of-living, but we have been amongst the top countries on planet for having so.

    Does that mean things are perfect? No, far from it, but anyone that can't make a comfortable life for themselves in Ireland is going to struggle big-time in 95% of other countries.

    If you are talking about the 30-year-old property crisis, then I'm afraid to inform you that Sinn Fein is the very epitome of the cause of the crisis.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 122 ✭✭cafflingwunts


    By living off your family.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,123 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Also part time workers be it single parents or a two parent family needing extra income.

    If we only had students working minimum wage jobs then the country would collapse and businesses would close.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Bullsh*t and just shows that your OP is not a genuine query but just another Shinnerbot thread.

    As for SF doing anything about the multiple issues they keep banging on about, forget it. They have one and only one item on the primary agenda - a border poll. All else is subservient to that ballot box strategy raison d'etre.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭Quitelife


    Excellent piece if rather sad.

    Things are bad here for those in the UK things are very very bad, parents not eating to feed their children , going to foodbanks every week.

    Restaurant workers eating what customers dont eat off the plate because they cant afford food after rent , are we going down that road to make the rich richer?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,439 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    this is a difficult one, yes some businesses can afford to pay more, but many, particularly most sme's cant, pup should have remained in place for many of these employees, but reduced if returned to work, this would have reduced pressure on all involved, provided the economy with more money, maintaining a higher level of economic activities, but since it didnt happen, expect rising tensions, business failures and unemployment!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 269 ✭✭JayPS 2288




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭Quitelife


    Think the chip on your shoulder is serious, i have voted all parties from Fine Gael to Sinn Fein over the years mostly depending on the individual.

    All id like to see is those at the bottom getting a fairer slice of the pie rather than been treated like slaves on crapp money. All employers shouldnt be like Larry Goodman,Pat McDonagh, Keelings etc...they could pay their staff a lot better than the bare minimum legal requirement . I myself am doing ok but i feel sad looking at how others are been treated and its becoming more common in our greedy sociaty.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    P.S. The last 3 decades have been phenomenal for Ireland from an Economic term and have been the only 3 decades where, not only have we had a great quality-of-life/standard-of-living, but we have been amongst the top countries on planet for having so.

    Smoke and mirrors. Certain aspects of the Irish economy, and standards of living in some areas have improved, but others have fallen significantly, or remained stagnant. You should take a look at some of the less developed regions of Ireland, and the general standards of living such as west Galway, or Kerry to see that little has changed in a positive way, and in other ways, things have declined. Then take a look at previously relatively prosperous towns in the midlands such as Longford or Mullingar, and once you move away from the busy town centre, you see problems all over. Population migration has remained a serious issue for these regions, but as long as Dublin is seen to be growing, then all is dandy.

    There are similar problems with the Irish economy. You've pointed to three decades, which have included a banking crash, and two lesser recessions, in addition to increases in taxation for the government to "help" recovery. Throughout that period, we've seen a wide variety of small-medium sized businesses close both due to market forces, but also the costs of doing business in Ireland. Some of that has been offset by the creation of more jobs by multinationals, but go through most midland towns and it's easy to see a wide range of closed up shops, pubs, etc. The focus, as with many western nations, has shifted towards large corporations or businesses, with the smaller companies being squeezed out. Which is a problem, because outside of the cities, these smaller businesses tend to provide the most amount of jobs, both in themselves, but also in the networks they create to support themselves.

    The simple truth is that the Irish economy is on shaky ground. Debt financing of business operations, and institutions using that debt to expand, has weakened their ability to resist big changes in the international scene. The reliance on foreign investment makes us particularly weak to movements by corps chasing after the lowest costs, and as Ireland becomes more expensive, that increases the risks of them leaving for cheaper pastures. Tax increases along with the introduction of rates, or the need to have regulated support services (solicitors, accountants etc) to interpret the maze of State rules, makes it more difficult for smaller businesses to operate.

    This is not an attempt to paint Ireland as being in a hole, but there's been a lot of PR programming by the government to present Ireland as being so wealthy, when most of it is rather superficial. State infrastructure is woeful, and getting worse. Transportation costs are increasing each year, and quality of service or provision is dropping. The HSE is a mess, and is clearly underfunded especially when you look outside of the main population centres. Many schools are overcrowded, and underfunded... or relatively empty because the population has shifted so much.

    Irish people need to take a long hard look at the economy, and the state of the nation, because it's not near as rosy as you want to make out. It's better in some ways, but we're seeing a decline in other areas. Doesn't help that RTE are hand in glove with the government and unlikely to invest any time showing the vulnerabilities of the economy.

    Lastly, look at the other "top" countries. Most of them are struggling. The problem with being at the top, is the desire to increase your spending to show everyone how wonderful you are.. but in many cases, revenue has not increased to compensate for that increased spending...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    "Some bosses enjoy looking at their staff knowing they've nothing and a weeks pay away from homelessness."

    This is what you wrote above, pretty despicable comment about people who run businesses that keep society running by generating jobs and taxes.

    I have no chip on my shoulder mate, but if you're serious about further improving wages and all related matters, be prepared for two things - to pay more for your purchases and pay more tax. Are you on for it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,295 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    And they get the social housing, medical card etc - no matter whether the reason is an impairment, or that they just couldn't be arsed bettering themselves. Some I know deliberately never earn over 18k so they can avoid paying tax.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,439 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    maintaining 'worker insecurities' is actually policy driven, and has been for a very long time globally, i.e. greenspan era



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    It will have a lot more people on minimum wage ,increased equality and poverty but we'll all be happy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,439 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    we ve actually no clue what the sf lead government will achieve, as it hasnt happened yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭Quitelife


    Would you not agree there are employers out there making huge profits and I know some of them but still pay their staff minimum wage when they themselves are extremely rich and their companies are hugely profitable. They brag about getting people from Latvia etc that have poor English and don’t understand what their entitled to etc . It’s sad how greedy some companies are .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭Quitelife


    I couldn’t give a toss who’s in government but could we not give those prepared to get up and work better than 10.50 an hour .



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,439 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    globally, corporate profits are now at an all time high for most, and most share prices are equally experiencing all time highs



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,128 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    I think the reality is people are going to have to change their expectation and approach to work/life to have a viable work/life balance. That might be have a more spartan minimalist in the cheapest part of this or another country. Its why people emigrated for generations. Its like areas of London that people grew up in they have to move out as it gentrifies and it no longer affordable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,439 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ....its clearly obvious that our governments, present and past, have played a vital role is this outcome, so.......

    ....the general population doesnt need to do such, we clearly need radical and rapid change in how we redistribute wealth, or we re probably fcuked as a species......



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Ireland has a huge system available to up-skill people. If you are in college why would you need to move away?

    In regards to SF comment, tell them to stop blocking houses and student houses etc and then the rents might lower.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,439 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    our educational and training systems are actually very limited in scope, and limited in access, i.e. not everyone actually has access to them, and/or the means

    yes sf and other parties do need to stop blocking building, but increasing supply does not guarantee lower rents, as supply, or lack of, is only one entity that alters pricing.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    or that they just couldn't be arsed bettering themselves. 

    Classic Tory-ology.

    Try sign on telling them you don't want to work and let us know when you get your house.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,439 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ....and i have a funny feeling, those medical cards are just that, lovely plastic cards, that give you access to virtually nothing.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,488 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    FF and FG have passed the government between then for 100 years. Their monopoly and the preferential treatment of friends and political backers is a constant scandal.

    Time for someone else to get into power. I'm well aware SF won't improve things much, or at all, but it's time for a change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,439 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel




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