Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

Options
1143144146148149169

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    How high is Ring Road on the NTA list of priority's in comparison with other transportation projects. Its very expensive for the amount of road one gets



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,746 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The only reason traffic is so bad is because people choose to drive into and around Galway.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The Galway Ring Road? TII are approving authority not the NTA, here’s their list of priorities for new projects (aside from asset protection and maintenance)

    1. Projects under construction (N5, N22, Dunkettle)
    2. M20
    3. Port connectivity projects with planning (Limerick-Foynes and M28)
    4. Port connectivity projects in planning (N11 Oilgate to Rosslare).
    5. Bypasses/ring roads with planning (M6 Galway City Ring Road)
    6. Bypasses/ring roads in planning (there’s several of these Virginia, Tipp Town, Killarney etc)
    7. Other major projects in planning (Mullingar-Longford, Cahir Waterford etc)
    8. All other majors.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Is this a rolling list, updated quarterly, yearly etc ? Is it published anywhere or is just a summation from reading various statements from TII over the years ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,049 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Fuel costs are not always going to be this expensive, the idea that the only way is up is absurd. And sure, if fuel prices do continue to rise then the business case for the ring road becomes weaker and weaker. Rising fuel costs mean less car use and more mass transit - so maybe the infamous GLUAS or suburban rail should be considered instead? More bus lanes make sense in a rising fuel cost environment, more roads (and all the costs that entails) do not.

    The road is called the M6- Galway City Ring Road, not a bypass. The feasibility surveys for the ring road showed that the overwhelming majority of car journeys crossing the river corrib, start or end within the city - i.e. 90%+ of traffic is coming or going from the city (or both). This traffic will not disappear when a bypass is built.


    It will be interesting for sure to see how construction and fuel inflation impacts the GCRR - yet another hurdle for the project.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    Yup, this road will always be needed under any realistic, non-fantasy version of Galway's future.

    If you want to turn Galway into a Dutch or Danish cycling town then that is fine by me, but it is clearly not rational to exclude a key feature that is present in all those towns that I can think of - a high-quality dedicated ring road/bypass (or two, or three).

    The inexorable trend of past decades has been increased travel in spite of steadily increasing fuel costs. There is no reason to assume this particular fuel cost increase will change that trend. At most, it might encourage switching to electric cars, but they need road space too.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    First published in late 2021 post the publication of the latest NDP

    Likely won’t be updated for some time because items 1-5 on the summarised list I published won’t be done for 5-6 years at least



  • Registered Users Posts: 34 FreedomOfSpeechAndChoice


    You can split hairs all you want, it's a bypass in all but name.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34 FreedomOfSpeechAndChoice


    It's desperately needed, has been for years, and this will not go away.


    All the NIMBYs and so called greens and do-gooders have done is delay and delay again, and it keeps getting more expensive the longer it's delayed.

    Meanwhile, other European countries march ahead of us with their nice new roads and infrastructure.


    We are a laughing stock across Europe, and those morons I mentioned must take a sizeable portion of the blame.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Our interurban network is outstanding, but for Cork - Limerick.

    If we're a laughing stock in Europe, its because we have an aversion to public transport investment. Instead, the morons in GCC are in favour of throwing billions on a road to support long haul commutes and English-style retail parks knowing full well it will worsen congestion and sap the life out of the city core.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,746 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    We are a laughing stock across Europe, and those morons I mentioned must take a sizeable portion of the blame.

    Calm down and stop playing the melodramatic actress role. Nobody is laughing at us!



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,523 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Other European countries would have little to laugh at on that front since Ireland's motorway network is far more extensive, in terms of km/head of population than any other European country.

    It would of course be laughable if we spent a €1,000 million on a Galway Bypass, which the modelling report tells us will only be an effective solution for 5% of trips, after building a €10 million bus corridor which the same report tells us would be an effective solution for over 70% of trips.

    There's just no compelling transport planning case to build such a bypass.

    Post edited by cgcsb on


  • Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    I'd be curious to see the source for your statistics on motorway density. As far as I'm aware we are well behind other countries such as Luxembourg, Cyprus, Slovenia, and Spain (per capita) or the Netherlands, Belgium etc (by area).

    Just like in European cycling towns, a high-quality bypass is necessary for a thorough solution to congestion. Public/active transport on its own cannot and will not fix Galway's congestion problems (70% of people taking the bus to where they want to go? Give me a break). Show me a similar-sized European city with high public transport usage and I will show you its high-quality bypass or ring road.

    Galway needs more public transport and it also needs a better ring road to help cope with the traffic redistribution. I really don't get why this concept is so hard to understand.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,746 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Galway needs more public transport and it also needs a better ring road to help cope with the traffic redistribution. I really don't get why this concept is so hard to understand.

    Trying to encourage people to use sustainable forms of travel will be made much more difficult while you spend close to a billion quid facilitating people to drive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    The ring road will facilitate turning over large quantities of Galway's roads to public transport. If you are genuinely in favour of a public transport solution for Galway (ie people being able to get where they want to go somewhat close to as quickly and conveniently by bus as by private car) then you should be pushing as hard as possible for the ring road. There is no way that the redistribution of road space needed for speedy public transport will fly politically otherwise. The fate of the Salthill cycle lane is informative.

    I'm all in favour of a Dutch or Danish approach to Galway's future. However, people seem to forget that a key part of that approach is a high quality ring road (or several).



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,523 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    70% of trips won't be on public transport but sufficient large numbers of peak hour trips can be moved to sustainable modes to greatly reduce car congestion and improve car journey times. Saving the guts of a billion euro.

    Redistribution of road space to sustainability modes can happen without building a bypass. In fact building a bypass would reduce the number of people using sustainable modes because you'd be providing speed and capacity to car drivers


    Lots of the rest of Europe has high spec ring roads but of course all built in less enlightened times.



  • Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    And public transport options in the rest of Europe benefit hugely from those ring roads, allowing car traffic to be moved out of town centers. Bypasses are a key part of a comprehensive solution.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,307 ✭✭✭markpb


    If the councils own data shows that only single-digit percentage of traffic are actually passing right through the city, what makes you sure that this new road will reduce congestion inside the city?

    And if it will, why is the new road not part of an integrated plan to change existing road use to public and active transport?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The ring road will facilitate turning over large quantities of Galway's roads to public transport.

    To repeat, again, there are no plans, anywhere, by any entity, to do any such thing should the GCRR be built.

    The opposite is more likely to be the result as it will lock in the cars supremacy in Galway City for the 30-40 years following it's opening



  • Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    If the council's data shows that there are already a large number of journeys passing straight through Galway, why would a bypass not reduce congestion?

    Separately, have you read the Galway Transport Strategy? It lays out the necessity of the Ring Road "in order to enhance the resilience of the strategy by reducing congestion on other principal roads, and providing opportunity for re-allocation of roadspace within the city for bus priority and cycle lanes".

    Elsewhere: "Numerous public transport scenarios were modelled in order to assess non-road-based solutions - but provision of a new orbital road was found to provide the best overall benefit (in tandem with multimodal improvements elsewhere)."

    @[Deleted User]

    I presume the changes laid out in the Galway Transport Strategy (developed by the Galway City and County Councils in partnership with the NTA) don't count for some reason.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I presume the changes laid out in the Galway Transport Strategy (developed by the Galway City and County Councils in partnership with the NTA) don't count for some reason.

    You would presume correctly as everything in the GTS that is not the GCRR is to be implemented regardless of the GCRR.

    The major criticism of the GTS is that it is so limited because so much of it is based around the GCRR with only half measures as the alternatives.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34 FreedomOfSpeechAndChoice


    I'd love to see all these posh wee green NIMBYs try and deliver a lorry load of tofu or mung beans on a bicycle through the middle of Galway.


    Get the bypass built .


    NOW.

    And then all these little whingers will have the town centre to themselves, and their ethnic peace bicycles, and the rest of us normal people can actually get on with our lives.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,584 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    The chances of this road ever being built (particularily in its current planned format) are slim to say the least. At best it's at least 15 years away in my own opinion.

    There's so much opposition to it, the costs are spiriling and realistically as time moves on so too does the rationale for the project in the first instance.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,746 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,702 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Interest rates are going to rise in the short term - like this year and next - that is certain. Inflation will drive the cost of this road so that the cost of it will make the National Children's Hospital look like a bargain.

    If the rate of interest were to hit 5%, which is likely before the GCRR is built, then the annual interest charge per year on €1 billion would be €50 million per year. That is before any repayment of the principal. What could be done with that interest cost?

    Now how much public transport could be provided for free to the passengers with that €50 million per year to fund it? How many traffic pinch points could be eliminated by using that much cash every year to mitigate traffic problems?

    They have already spent millions on the design so far, and not a centimetre of it built yet, nor will there be a centimetre of it built within the next decade I would think. However, they could buy quite a few buses and paint a few km of bus lanes for that almost within this year, and every year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    The cheapest time to build this road was over a decade ago. The second cheapest time is today (if the government acted to shut down the abuse of our planning system). Because we didn't accept either of those options, we have to put up with building it at greater cost later.

    The road was needed a decade ago, it is needed today, and it will still be needed in the future, under any realistic and clear-eyed version of Galway's future.

    The sooner it is built, the sooner Galway's town centre can be turned over to buses and bicycles. There will be no political acceptance of the major changes you propose until the drivers barred from the city centre have a high-quality alternative route. The defeat of the Salthill cycle lane proves this point - how do you hope to turn over major quantities of road space when the people of Galway revolted over a short stretch of cycle lane?

    Every last delay to this much-needed road inflicted by the environmentalist lobby is an own goal.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,702 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Why not turn Galway city centre over to buses and cycles now?

    At least give it a try. No, you cannot give it a try because it might be a big success. Remember how the Dublin Luas was going to be a white elephant? Instead it has been a huge success. Or the Dart - another success, now with a ten minute service.

    There has been a huge increase of cycle use since the increase of cycle infrastructure provision in Dublin in the last year or so.

    The M50 is another success - so successful, it is gridlock during busy times which get longer every year. No, wait - that is not what success looks like.

    The M17 and M18 were great projects - they allowed the traffic to get to the Coolagh Roundabout much quicker - another success if you do not want to go any further than the Coolagh Roundabout.

    A few more successes like that and we will not know ourselves.

    If I was spending a billion euros in Galway, I would put it into a Luas line or two and free buses, and a number of strategically placed P&R sites outside he city.



  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭jimdemp


    This boils down to people who want to keep Galway a town and people who want it to be a City. If you do not build the infrastructure Galway will no longer grow, no matter how many Government incentives the west gets.



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭Jayuu


    No you can't "just give it a try" because there are thousands of people who rely on their cars for lots of reasons (limited mobility, elderly people, parents with young children) and you can't simply decide that while you're figuring it all out they can just be discounted and excluded from Galway city.

    The reality is that car transport is going to remain a factor in transport solutions for a long time to come and ways have to be figured out to accomodate all forms rather than just blindly deciding this one form is bad and must be made as awkward as possible.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A large area of Galway City center will not be accessible to private motor traffic with the introduction of the cross city link.

    The Salmon Weir will be closed to through traffic except for buses and taxis within 18 months.

    A bus gate will be implemented on College Road around the same time.

    Through traffic will have only 2 options, going by the docks, or going over the QCB. Outside of that private cars will only have access to the car parks in the city centre as even on street parking is for the chop.

    So your assertion that the GCRR must be done to free up space is incorrect as a lot of space is being freed up without it.

    Granted its not enough and more needs to be done but won't be done as GCC have all their eggs in the GCRR basket.

    The sooner the GCRR dies, the sooner Galway will get a range of more robust and complete sustainable travel options e.g. P&R's, a full network of bus lanes, sub-10 min frequency bus routes, a full network of protected bike lanes (and junctions) etc etc etc.

    By putting all hope on the building of the GCRR, GCC are holding the line that there's no point doing anything more as everyone will be driving.



This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement