Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Wibbs · 30-04-2022 8:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996208#Comment_118996208

They've made some valid points if you dig down through the silly though. And switch off your rooting for the little guy mode. If Russia stopped tomorrow they could claim a "win" of sorts. The "independent" states free and a land corridor to Crimea. Now they have to keep and defend it, but they've kept and defended Crimea for nearly a decade. Crimea is a done deal. Gone. Never going back to Ukraine in our lifetimes and I can't see Russia walking back on their current gains. They're also spot on about the Germans dragging their heels, never mind cozying up to Russia and Russia's dirty money for years. When one of your ex prime ministers is raking in millions on the board of a Russian energy company the German people need to to ask very strong questions of their political class. But they probably won't past rants on twitter, because the potential for losing your job and feeling the cold in December tends to sap resolve and revolutions.

On the other hand Russia's international political and economic reputation is in tatters. They've lost big time there. Oh sure some companies will go back in, but their economic landscape is very different to what it was this Christmas gone. What gains they made in the years of putin's reign are essentially gone. Ukraine's future looks a lot stronger. They'll never look to the East again. Putin has guaranteed that for generations.

Polar101 · 30-04-2022 8:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996206#Comment_118996206

A new nuclear power plant just went online, so Russian gas is going to be even less important in the future.

listermint · 30-04-2022 8:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996298#Comment_118996298

Russia will claim a win whatever happens.

It doesn't matter what Russia claim reality is different burger head made actually zero valid points . It's cosplay trolling. I read it again just to make sure he was doing the usual. He was. Nothing's changed.

And the stuff about rooting for the little guy... That's just false but you've been saying that for a while. There's a stark difference between looking at the facts and trying to boths sides any event. You've been in the latter mode for a long time it doesn't make the facts any less reality.

Field east · 30-04-2022 8:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995070#Comment_118995070

Will use full name in future . My apologies

zv2 · 30-04-2022 8:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995842#Comment_118995842

I think they ran out of the first batch but they are being replaced. I read on Reddit that they are Turkish but manufactured in Ukraine.

Addmagnet · 30-04-2022 8:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996350#Comment_118996350

My immediate thought was:

https://arethebritsatitagain.org/

PokeHerKing · 30-04-2022 8:49am

Why was Crimea taken so easily? Considering the fight UA are capable of it seems crazy they let it go without a shot fired.

Mecanudo · 30-04-2022 8:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996203#Comment_118996203

There's a bridge somewhere that needs blowing up.

Field east · 30-04-2022 8:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995389#Comment_118995389

What has happened to the Mothers of the Kursk Submarine debacle? These mothers would be from the same cohort who’s sons are now being slaughtered in UKr when they all thought that they were on a light training exercise. Maybe that mother who stood up at a meeting - she demanded to know what really happened - to ‘ explain what happened’ !! might have put them off when she got an injection from behind to sedate her

30-04-2022 8:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996298#Comment_118996298

Agreed re Crimea, it was ever only Ukrainian in name only, but I disagree re the other regions. No country should gain territory in the 21st century by population stealth, not by military means anyway. Russia may bed in some gains in "DNR" and "LNR", but they need to remain pariahs while they occupy those regions. That will be a bitter "victory" won by the Democratic Republic of Russia... they'll have to resort to showing off their "might" by televising rocket tests overlooked by their Dear Leader and accompanying human seals.

They'll be winning in comparison to Ukraine like NK is winning compared to South Korea.

threeball · 30-04-2022 8:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996036#Comment_118996036

I'd be more worried about their surplus store Vietnam war helmets.

Drumpot · 30-04-2022 9:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996298#Comment_118996298

Well there has to be something of Ukraine left for them to not be looking back to Russia. NATO has said the war could go on for years. Maybe that’s all theatre to put pressure on Russians to give up or sort out some sort of agreement.

Arming Ukraine to the teeth could end up destroying them Depending on how desperate the Russians respond. NATO (USA) really has taken a “many Ukrainians will die and the country could be destroyed, but this is a sacrifice we are willing to take”. There is a bold southpark/Simpsons sketch in there somewhere.

I guess if the war ends sooner rather then later, Ukraine keeps its sovereignty and Russia takes the regions it has but advances no further in the Baltics it will be spun as a win by both sides (I think this may be most likely and is what everybody is banking on). But If Russia escalates things continually , then the arming Ukraine strategy will look more and more misguided as the carnage rises.

20silkcut · 30-04-2022 9:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996378#Comment_118996378

Ukraine was a neutral country in 2014, the army was a lot less capable than it is now. There were no perceived threats or official tension between the two countries because it was led by the same type of corrupt regime as Russia until February of that year. Vlad moved at lightning speed when he saw the wind was changing and ramped up anti Ukraine propaganda since.

listermint · 30-04-2022 9:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996378#Comment_118996378

Lots of collaboration and corruption. Caught way off guard. They were not prepared for it. It would never ever have happened if there was Ukrainian focused police and forces there.

30-04-2022 9:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996409#Comment_118996409

By that thinking no country should defend itself and should let its citizens be slaughtered, raped and stolen from.

Look at how Russia has acted so far in Ukraine.

Bizarre logic.

Yurt2 · 30-04-2022 9:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996420#Comment_118996420

The Berkut (now abolished), the Ukrainian gendarmerie, were essentially in the pay of Russia and Russian interests since independence.

Mecanudo · 30-04-2022 9:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996409#Comment_118996409

But If Russia escalates things continually , then the arming Ukraine strategy will look more and more misguided as the carnage rises.

Arming Ukraine is the only way to mitigate Russias carnage and to keep Russia from going even further.

Russia intention has always been to streamroll through Ukraine and take everything for itself. It doesn't give a flying shiteabout the collateral damage it has to inflict to do that regardless

Drumpot · 30-04-2022 9:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996425#Comment_118996425

I never said a country should not defend itself, don’t misquote me.

zv2 · 30-04-2022 9:15am

Another fire https://twitter.com/6m_6k/status/1520243195057037312?s=20&t=h51QJASRZZNIKmwvxHXXxw

Drumpot · 30-04-2022 9:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996436#Comment_118996436

I don’t that Russians plans was to destroy Ukraine but that’s effectively the choices they have if they want it, destroy it or make concessions.

Not just that, the idea that diplomacy is not worthwhile is odd. Why hasn’t Biden even tried to arrange some sort of peace talks? How is it not even worth trying to help avoid the carnage we are seeing in Ukraine ?

This whole idea that the ONLY solution is war is quite insane considering the American president didn’t even try.

30-04-2022 9:21am

I knew it was the yanks. Even when it was the Russians, I knew it was the yanks.

Wibbs · 30-04-2022 9:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996343#Comment_118996343

My point about rooting for the little guy is that facts tend to become fluid depending on one's position and focus becomes biased. EG you read the first paragraph that wound you up because I said Russia could claim a "win" of sorts, even though I put that position with caveats, but ignored the part where I said Russia has lost big time in political and economic terms and have gone back, or are heading back two decades in economics(and more politically). They're right about Crimea. That's not going back to Ukraine. They're not far wrong with regard to Germany dragging her heels. Indeed there have been pages of people "rooting for the little guy" who've been saying the exact same thing, if not more stridently. Maybe if I framed the same post with simplistic stuff like "kill RuZZian Orcs!!" the reaction would be different. No maybe about it really.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996382#Comment_118996382

Oh sure, no country should gain territory, but that doesn't mean they won't. Russia can because they have nuclear weapons. That's the be all and end all of it. Without them we'd have a conventional European war where NATO forces would crush Russian forces and drive them back to their borders in short order. Clearly they are gaining and holding territory at the moment and the longer they hold those areas, the more Ukrainian nationalists will leave to add to those that already have and the more Ukrainian and Russian seperatists will remain and move in. If Russia has any sense, and that's a big if, if I were them I'd halt further moves west and dig in and consolidate and leave Ukraine and the West worrying about Moldova and other stuff while I did.

I 100% agree Russia should remain a pariah state. Personally I'd cut them off even more. Close down all their embassies in the EU, close all EU member embassies in Russia, leave one of theirs open in Brussels and one of ours in Moscow. I'd cut their pipelines in the morning and pivot to nuclear and other sources of oil and gas. I'd also investigate and where required charge all of those in Germany and elsewhere who backed Russian interests to line their pockets. A goodly chunk of the financial transaction machine is still open to them, I'd shut that down too and I would confiscate ALL of their foreign reserves. If the Chinese or Indians or anyone else sought to help them I'd remind them what side their bread is buttered on and remind them just how much of it is Western butter.

jackboy · 30-04-2022 9:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996447#Comment_118996447

From the start of this the west made it clear that they don’t care about Ukraine and don’t recognise it as a real country. Once the west saw the state of the Russian military they decided to take advantage of this by arming and supporting the Ukrainian military. The sole purpose of this is to degrade the Russian military. Survival of the Ukrainian state or Ukrainian casualties are not relevant to the west.

This is now a war between Russia and the west, Ukrainian soldiers are being used as tools of war.

I am talking about the west here, US, Britain and some others, not the small countries bordering Ukraine and Russia.

30-04-2022 9:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996461#Comment_118996461

What are the yanks meant to do? They called every move before it happened while the Europeans downplayed everything. They were accused of stirring **** for no reason, but no, they were being accurate.

They've offered Ukraine weapons. I'm under no illusions that they see it to their benefit as well but the Ukrainians seem pretty happy with the help.

They've been at the forefront of sanctions right from the start while the Europeans dragged their heels.

But they haven't publicly said a particular thing in a while so let's criticise them for that one thing. And if Biden was just calling for talks the sneer would be "Haha, weak Biden looking for talks so they can hang Ukraine out to dry".

The yanks are halfway across the world which insulates them for fallout and I don't think they're supporting Ukraine purely out of some kind of altruism but Christ, they're doing more than most. And for now they're fine with leaving the long table for fools from the UN/France/Austria to go and get sneered at by Putin.

Akrasia · 30-04-2022 9:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996461#Comment_118996461

That's a simpsons reference. Dont think the poster was seriously blaming the Americans

"Immigrants - I knew it was them! Even when it was the bears, I knew it was them!"

(Moe)

jackboy · 30-04-2022 9:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996493#Comment_118996493

You haven’t read my post, just automatically went for abuse.

Mecanudo · 30-04-2022 9:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996447#Comment_118996447

Putin has already made it overly clear-its Ukrainian annihilation with or without capitulation.

Ukraine has already held peace talks and Russia simply ain't interested. The US under Biden organising some latter day "peace in our day" Chamberlain type solution would be little more than handing Ukraine over to the Russians. And that's not going to happen regardless.

Wibbs · 30-04-2022 9:49am

The West versus East bit that Russian supporters in the developing world love to get behind is utter bollocks really. Russia is a Western, European, White, "christian" empire nation, the largest nation on earth, with 10 timezones, nearly 200 ethnic groups and the power and the money is mostly held in the West of it and almost entirely by the same Western, European, White, "christians". Yet Rakeesh of Delhi reckons Russians see him as an equal? Bless.

Drumpot · 30-04-2022 9:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996477#Comment_118996477

Yeh, the Americans told us months in advance all what the Russians were going to do and did what to try and help prevent it or help the Ukrainians? It’s one thing if Biden flew to Moscow or had some stern talks with Putin and said “we will arm ukraine” but instead they let him invade and then everybody acted.

Im not saying it’s the Americans fault for this war. It’s not. It’s all Putin. But this strategy of pummelling Russia through Ukraine does not have to be the only option. I don’t know why people are so convinced it is.

The Americans are throwing billions worth of weapons at this and it’s not for philanthropic reasons. The republicans want more of the money to be used on weapons more then aid, so their intentions are clear, Opportunistically weaken the Russians. There’s nothing wrong with taking advantage of a situation in some ways but it’s fair to acknowledge.

Biden refusing talks because of how it looks is ok? So that’s fine for war to rage on because it will make Biden look bad if the talks don’t work. FFS. I can understand why he’s doing it but how is that an acceptable reason to instead flood the country with weapons that’s gonna cause massive damage and casualties? It’s not even worth doing because Bidens reputation?

I just find the idea that flooding the country with Weapons being promoted as the only game in town as pernicious.

Drumpot · 30-04-2022 9:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996481#Comment_118996481

Ah ok, I didn’t get it. I started a thread somewhere else for discussional purposes and it was derailed by people accusing me of all sorts. Apologies ButtonFw

The summary of my point is that I’m just disappointed diplomacy by the American president hasn’t really been tried since this started. Why him? Because Putins ego and delusions of grandeur needed somebody of that position to negotiate something like this. Im not blaming Americans so please people don’t post as if I am.

Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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