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General British politics discussion thread

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,506 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The easy and, perhaps cynical interpretation of your posts would be that you're content with corruption and incompetence when it's the Tories. That also seems to be the correct one.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,197 ✭✭✭Good loser


    I agree with hotmail's opinion on Angela Raynor. I consider her limited and a boring speaker. Not very bright. Obviously Stamer tried to get rid of her that time but was caught out tactically. A female version of Richard Burgon.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,564 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    To be fair, most MPs are boring speakers. Also it is evident that Westminster has its fair share of people who are not very bright, many of whom have a seat in Cabinet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,096 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    While there is nothing wrong with singling out people like Angela Raynor or Diane Abbot for criticism, in a vacuum, quite often it's an indicator that the critic is mainly getting their news from right-wing tabloids or their online equivalent (eg Guido Fawkes).

    I mean you have to squint pretty hard to single out someone like Raynor when you have an actual Minister, Nadine Dorries, disgracing herself and the people who deemed her fit for office, at every available opportunity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,964 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Indeed its hard to take seriously those focusing on criticising the opposition seriously when theres a cabinet full of empty vessels like, dorries, truss, and raab or the corrupt disgraces that are johnson, sunak, patel, raab, gove, truss, javid, dorries... ohh hell im just naming the entire cabinet here. And lets never forget that they also have a being of pure vindictive evil in patel as well. And then never forget all the ex cabinet members like hancock who left in disgrace or bradley who didnt know catholics and protestants voted for different parties......

    But yes lets concentrate on the opposition......



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,728 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Well everything they do is Labours fault don't you know.

    First it was their fault for not being good enough in opposition and now sure the PM can't do his job because the labour front bench is too sxy lookin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,308 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    I just seen a few interviews with Rayner and made the judgement myself.

    Criticising one side doesn't make you supportive of the other side. Do you understand that concept?

    We're all observers here and don't vote in the UK.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,096 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Fair enough. Which current ministers do you think are not performing well?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,308 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Bizarre follow up question but glad you accepted my point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,728 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Some posters here do actually vote in the UK. Both in NI and Britain.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    this might all be well and true but honestly so far every time she was up against boris in the parliament , she was better than him, unless you are a real big fan of somebody who who cant follow his train of thought for more than 5 seconds, or a tabloid paper reader



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,660 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    "I will await their findings"

    The absolute state of this....the Tories are a shambles....who would vote for any of them!



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,964 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Who would vote for them? Well racists, mysoginists and bigots for a start. And before any slack jawed torry defenders get all uppity about my comment and try pull a mark francois, I didn't say all those who vote for them are racist mysoginists or bigots just that racists mysoginists and bigots would happen to still happily vote for them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,406 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    It's laughable. Why didn't the reporter ask the obvious follow up questions?

    Without a free press democracy cannot function

    This bullsh1t about 'I will wait for the enquiry findings before answering any questions' is straight out of the Donald Trump play book 'I can't release my taxes cause they're under audit'

    Hijacking 'due process' to undermine democracy



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,506 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I think the truth is a bit more anodyne than that. The Tory vote tends to concentrate in southeast England in correlation with the UK's wealth. Rural southeast England is therefore cluttered with safe Tory seats where people just cast their ballot accordingly. Of course, there are Labour safe seats in the cities but there are significantly fewer of those and there'll be fewer still once the boundary changes are implemented. Since Scotland is lost to them, the UK is effectively a one party state where the incumbent doesn't even feel the need to pretend to represent the people.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,406 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I don't go around looking for Angela Raynor interviews or anything but from what I've seen of her and from her performances covering for Starmer at PMQs I think she's been very impressive

    The Labour Party need someone like her in positions of power to keep them grounded in the realities of living in working class Britain. The consequences of losing touch completely will be that they will lose their base.

    Labour need the working classes, they cannot rely on swing voters, especially now that the Tories are corrupting the electoral process



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,320 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    To the Tories demographic, I'll quote a late Simpsons gag, aimed then at Fox News: not racist, but loved by racists.

    I don't believe many of the Tories are inherently racist or aimed towards bigotry, it just comes by dint of their policies being more configured towards dispassionate treatment of vulnerable groups - something actual bigots can get behind because invariably those vulnerable groups tend towards ethnic minorities.

    And like a lot of things in 50+1 systems, especially those with Whips, that loud prejudicial base has taken over the conversations and focus of the brain within these right wing parties. Not sure how The Conservatives pivot themselves back to a centre right position; maybe if the Faragist rump disappears, I dunno.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,308 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Doesn’t Britain have one of the most diverse cabinets in Western Europe ?

    It's certainly much more diverse than ours.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,308 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Working class is grand of course but the politician needs to be of a high standard.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,406 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I think she is of a high standard from what I've seen of her.

    But then I'm of the sort who thinks she shouldn't have apologised for calling the Tories scum given what they're doing right now, dismantling UK democratic institutions piece by piece while poverty and division are skyrocketing.

    A lot of the Tory rhetoric is much much more offensive than the word scum, and its backed up by their activities



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,728 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    She is of much higher standards than the current cabinet some of whom now have actual black marks on record rather than just opinion.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,654 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The Prime Minister and members of his cabinet not only have intent to break international law, they have actual criminal convictions.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,506 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I'm perfectly happy to believe that the Conservative party is not inherently racist. What I think it is is completely and utterly corrupt, selfish and inept. We now have a Tory MP pretending to have been ambushed by a porn link. Johnson tried the same with cake and Parish thought he'd have a go at the same thing.

    The organ of the party that wins elections is operating at full efficiency. The rest is intellectually brain dead. The ditched the myth of Labour overspending only when they decided to put party over country with Brexit and now, six years later we have them talking about the protocol and remainer plots.

    The ultimate point of conservatism as an ideology is to consolidate wealth, power and influence into a tiny cadre of upper class people, usually white men. There is no other point to it. Conservatives inherently therefore reject any attempt at change unless there is a chance for personal profit such as with Brexit. Unfortunately, the idea of such consolidation is now impossible to defend with any sort of cogent argument so they have no choice but to drag Brexit out of the closet yet again to rile up their dwindling base.

    The racism is just a nice cover for this agenda. If you convince the lowest Englishman that his skin colour makes him the superior of the best non-white resident of this country, he'll vote for poverty if it means the non white person gets it worse. The cruelty is the point.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,308 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    The Conservative Party has produced the most diverse cabinet in British history and possibly the most diverse in Europe.

    When the UK left the EU, the percentage of ethnic minorities in the EU Parliament dropped!

    The picture people from Ireland paint of Britain just doesn't stack up.

    Given our complete lack of diversity among our politicians, judiciary, media, our teachers etc etc, what must people think of our culture!



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,728 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Ah the old "Sepp Blatter shaking hands with black men" defense.

    Not being white doesn't clear you of being racist or promoting racist policies. I have no idea whether or not Patel is a racist personally but she certainly targets and implements policy that gets racists very excited and encourages racists to vote Tory.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,506 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Sources for any of this?

    For someone desperately claiming not to support the Tory party, you seem to be very committed to defending the Tory party.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,393 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    It is pretty much true, the UK leaving did reduce the diversity of the parliament. Investigation by ENAR (which is funded by the EU itself).

    Diversity EU Parliament (enar-eu.org)

    I do think it is slightly over-simplistic analysis myself though. It appears to ignore the South American origin of some of the Iberian MEPs for example.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,308 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Ah I suppose the Irish attitude of Britain since Brexit begins to jar with people after a while. Ireland is superior is the mentality now.

    It's bordering on anti English at this stage. Thankfully the English allow the Irish to bash them constantly, due to their polite culture.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,506 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Nothing's jarring. Just odd that someone spends so much time defending a foreign political party and putting in such a poor performance to boot.

    Since you have no evidence, let's just agree that you're spouting hogwash.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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  • Registered Users Posts: 39,842 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    The uk had a referendum to leave the EU which was their right to do and they voted to leave. That was their choice but it’s the complaining when the realities of leaving hit that I’m starting to find annoying. They made a choice and there are consequences and there’s many clips of business people complaining about how brexit has hurt their business, yet if given the choice again they’d still vote to leave. There’s no talking to that mindset.



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