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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin


    This sums up the main issue in my mind, the alternatives should be in place beforehand.

    Its pretty much the definition of just cutting off your nose to spite your face.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    we clearly need to keep offsetting these issues, until the alternative are available, i.e. keep topping up electricity accounts etc

    hydro isnt truly a functioning alternative for ireland, just simply too expensive for not enough return, wind is our main viable alternative, but an astonishing level of investment is required, multiples of billions this decade alone. yes 'managed demand' will probably be attempted, and will likely fail until the above occurs.....


    we warned of these issues years ago, we have completely failed to act, so here we are, its major investment time now, and quickly, or we re fcuked.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin


    "we warned of these issues years ago, we have completely failed to act, so here we are, its major investment time now, and quickly, or we re fcuked....."

    Missing the point, alternatives must be in place before hand, no matter how late you were in acting, its just basic common sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    again, as stated! i.e. its to late for that now, we didnt act!



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I really do not see that we can just keep on topping up electricity accounts, and further major investment in alternatives that are unreliable is not going to reduce the price of electricity under the marginal pricing policy.

    Even the E.U. who are responsible for putting that pricing policy in place, now see that the only people benefiting from it financially are the energy companies.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    yea we ve dug a nice hole for ourselves, in relation to supply our energy needs, we clearly need major public investment, but theres no clear plan how how to do that yet, and we re very quickly running out of time, not just environmentally, our energy supplies are becoming more and more uncertain, more and more unstable, we truly are running out of time, this has the potential to erupt into serious wars!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin


    If you think its that urgent why are you not calling for a complete ban on all fossil fuels, not just making it more difficult on people with low income to heat their homes. Why not ban all imports from China immediately ? Why use tax at all, if its that urgent ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...because this is not realistic or possible, it would simply lead to catastrophic economic and social collapse, i.e. probably not a good idea!

    ....again, politics is stuck, it believes simply increasing taxation and debts in the private domain will resolve the problem, it wont!



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    It`s a hole that the Greens just keep digging deeper. No amount of public investment going to change the fact the alternative energy sources currently available to us is going to change the fact that for years to come we are going to require fossil fuels as a fill-in for how unreliable those alternatives are.

    That is something that the Irish Greens, unlike the rest of Europe, are just burying their heads in the sand attempting to ignore. While the rest of Europe is racing to use whatever resources they have to fill the gap of Russian gas, our ostriches are attempting to ban LNG andTurf and ignore Barryroe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    again, this isnt just a greens problem, but an every bodies problem, again, we ve all largely ignored this coming reality, and for decades, so....

    yes, fossil fuels are going to be have to be a part of the transition, and nuclear, and we re not even willing to have that conversation at the moment!

    ...and again, yes all political institutions are basically lost with this one, including ourselves, what theyre trying, simply wont work.....



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I is not just a green problem, Russia`s war made keeping the lights on everyone`s problem, but it is a problem with energy supply that is being exacerbated by the Irish Green party attempting to ban turf, LNG and stonewalling. Areas that the Irish Green`s are not even attempting to have a conversation on let alone nuclear.

    The political institutions in Europe do not appear to be lost on the situation. Germany alone, who we have been slavishly following, are building LNG terminals, leasing floating LNG terminals, renewing gas exploration and strip mining coal telling their coal burning plants they were going to shut down before this war to now be on standby.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    the greens are effectively on a kamikaze mission, and you gotta admire it, it ll very likely lead to their destruction, they know we re out of time, so this is the only option they feel they have....

    your statement on the eu shows how lost, even at eu level, we are, we clearly need to get away from fossil fuels asap, and the only way to do that, across the eu, is further integration of our energy systems, rapid expansion of alternative networks, all by using pre existing eu institutions, i.e. ecb, eib, etc etc, and by the creation of new public institutions, all within the bounds of the eu, this is the only way out of this, and this still isnt happening!



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I would no more be an admirer of kamikazes than I would be of suicide bombers. For both it`s an ideology of my cause is righteous and I do not care how many of you I take out. It`s not an attitude I believe should be encouraged. Especially from members of a democratically elected government who are meant to govern for the good of all.

    We need to get away from fossil fuels, but we are not going to achieve that in one magical jump regardless of what we do. And we are most definitly not going to do so with the present alternatives we have available. The rest of the E.U. are not as lost in ideology as we are with Irish Green present policy on turf, LNG and Barryroe. In first aid terms, they recognise that energy wise to keep the lights on in the immediate future Russian gas is the major bleed. Our Green`s are tinkering around with minor bleeds while ignoring the major bleed. That never has a good outcome for a patient.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    again, we were warned, yet we ignored, so here we are, expect extreme outcomes and actions, from more and more parties, in order to solve this, we re not going to bypass this one!

    again, we re out of time, for nicely nicely, easy easy, expect the radical, and none of it is gonna be nice, for anyone!

    oh god the eu is completely lost, we have the ideas, we have the knowledge, we have the know how, yet........



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,542 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Think I might get one of those wood pellet stoves, was talking to a few people and they said there is great heat out of them.

    Suppose that clown Ryan would be complaining about that as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    sounds like the stoves in general are very good, and i was bloody offered one a couple of years ago, for free, turned it down!



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,542 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35




  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    thankfully ive helped install before, but i would still need professional help to



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm curious, with the talk "alternatives should be available before we take action" what are the alternatives that are not already available.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin



    So why did you greet the increase in carbon tax with a "Thank god", when you now say it wont resolve the issue ??????

    There are lots of things the GP could be doing that they wont, and their supporters just blindly believe everything they say is correct, without doing their own thinking. The leadership of the Irish GP under Ryan, and the associated PR of Gibbons erodes their credibility.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Being warned or ignoring is an irrelevance.

    We are where we are and we do not have the renewables to provide 100% reliable energy, and we are not going to get there anytime soon regardless of what we do. We will need fossil fuels for however long it takes to get there. All countries in the E.U. recognise that, especially our former idols for Irish Greens, Germany, who are now scrambling to make up for the mistakes of depending on Russian gas and downgrading their own nuclear energy sources.

    Meanwhile we have the Green Party here with their heads in the sand as if they expect somehow by some magic we can go to 100% reliable renewables overnight. It`s insanity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Zero cost alternative , if someone is spending €1000 heating their home the alternative has to cost the same. Pippa (79votes) Hackett telling people they should burn briquettes instead of turf. €6.60 a bale a few weeks ago ,likely 2bales a day for 200 days a year and them imported from Eastern Europe. Maths not big in Green circles



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There is no such thing as a zero cost alternative. Some will cost more in the short term/less in the long term (heat pump), some will cost more in the long term/less in the short term (fossil fuels) but there is no switch that will be like for like in terms of cost, that's just a silly criteria.

    Also it's not an answer to the question I posed. Folks here said there should be no ban until alternatives are available. What are the alternatives that are not available?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    A secure energy source would be one, rather than attempts to ban a transitional source recognised by the E.U. and the only one that would not have us in none compliance with E.U. directives. Taking a leaf out of book of the Irish Greens former idols, Germany, would also be a help rather than attempting to ignore Barryroe. Dropping the inane 500 person community idea of legislation would not go far wrong either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭jmcc


    Nuclear? If it wasn't for the insanity of the Greens and Putin appeasers including Merkel in Germany shutting down nuclear power stations, Germany would never have become so dependent onf Russian oil and gas. Ireland rejected nuclear in the 1970s though.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin


    One thing I can see at the moment in Kerry is there is a huge amount timber being cut down and chopped up for seasoning. I have taken down 8 good sized trees for fuel so far, and I am going to keep going throughout the summer, my neighbours are all doing the same. I am doing my bit though as I am mostly using an electric chainsaw, and its charged off solar.

    I can't burn coal in my range, its far too messy and polluting anyway, I have some turf left, and hope to start cutting my own soon, for the first time, .The range is my source of heat for the house, and heats all the water we use so it runs all year.

    I assume that's what the GP expected to happen, as the increased costs of other types of fuel leaves no option.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Its not irrelevant that we were warned decades ago and didn't take action. It means that we need to stop ignoring the warnings and take this seriously. It means. We had a chance to let the old market forces and government policies to resolve the issue in advance, and they failed, so we need to do something different, more radical, and more resource intensive.

    The Italian solution of 110% grants to do energy upgrades is one such option

    https://www.italymagazine.com/post/110-superbonus-state-aid-restorations-italy

    Ireland is one of the wealthiest countries in the world, We need to invest in our future, the fact that we were warned and our governments did nothing effective, means that we need to act on those warnings now and massively increase investment into getting away from polluting energy sources



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin


    Surely that question is for you/the GP to answer ?

    All was good with the turf and briquettes, until bans and taxes. The air quality round here is fine, 3 times cleaner than Dublin on average..

    My range runs 5 radiators, provides hot water. I cant do that with heat pumps, the walls of my house are 3 feet thick anyway, installation would be a nightmare.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Heat pump isn't an alternative , possibility of €5k a year electric bills coming closer to being a reality, trying to push people into a method that they won't be able to afford is gross stupidity, Greens don't understand that most people have very little spare cash and every extra penny they take makes it harder for even more people, only total loons would push up prices in the middle of a cost of living crisis.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...again, the greens are only a minor part of the government, polices must be agreed by all parties, and yes, most political parties are completely disconnected from the average voter



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