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The Great Big Lawnmower Thread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭deezell


    Be careful using horsepower comparisons, as many retailers quote peak engine horsepower, not operational speed horsepower. The only reliable figures in specifications are outputs quoted in Kw and PS, there are 735 watts for each ps hp. Peak power quoted is often up to double this. The 5097 is spec'd at 8.2kw/11.1ps. The 5097Z is spec'd at 12.2/16.6. This is the same as the 5112 Z spec on the Stihl site.

    Just to confuse matters, there's BHP, Brake hp or sometimes referred to as British hp, beloved of petrol heads and car manufacturers. Its a genuine measure, at 746 Watts per Bhp.



  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭photosmart


    I'm hoping to get a 5112 when they come back in stock - I think the extra few bob

    gets you a lot more. Thanks for all replies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭deezell


    The only issue with towing with a hydro is that the hydro box is not designed to deliver all the engine power to the wheels, rather, just enough to pull mower, full grassbag and driver up the maximum safe slope. My 21 (actual) hp Viking will not pull a small trailer full of logs up a slope that my previous lower powered manual transmission Castelgarden could, it just bypasses/relieves the hydro fluid. The CG could because virtually all the power was available to the wheels, until they spin or the belt clutch slips. On too steep a slope in a low gear the CG could lift its front wheels up with all the torque and a full bag behind. I've no figures for how much engine hp a hydro box will transmit to the wheels, but I'm not that impressed, I figure it's limited to protect the box, and especially with the outsize tyres on this model, there would be less torque at point of contact on the slope. I could stall the engine on the manual box mower when the drive clutch belt was new. It's better to have some limit n the hydro though than to destroy the box pulling too great a load.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    will ya look at this begob, never seen the like of it before

    anyone ever own one?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,781 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    As they say there is nothing new under the sun. Looks in design to be very similar to my old (design from 1980's maybe earlier) favourite the Snapper Lawn Rider + Bag n Wagon set up. Looks a mess but best suction of any mower I've ever used.

    Note the rake on the front. Just a brilliant set up the "Wagon" tips. Great mower for picking up leaves and even hedge cuttings.

    Sadly when B&S took the company over they kept the lawn rider but dumped all the accessories like the Bag n Wagon and the dethatherizor.

    Wake me up when it's all over.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 598 ✭✭✭Needles73


    Just an observation. I’ve had various Viking ride on and no issue with any. Was at my local dealer this morning and noticed the display model stihl ride on had a loncin engine…..I currently have a 5112z which is a great mower. My only observations are the drive belt is ridiculously hard to change (although one has not failed on me). Parts are expensive but to be honest all I have bought in last 5 years was one pulley. If anyone is buying one my advice is always get the bigger grass box !!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭rn


    Any thoughts on these? I recall ye saying later versions of the 300 series were unreliable?

    http://www.adverts.ie/26646371



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,664 ✭✭✭✭joujoujou
    Unregistered Users


    While we're at adverts, any of you have/used this?

    Seller claims it's secure, but looking for second opinion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,781 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    I have this

    Its a lot more expensive but price does drop occasionally to around £150. I'd highly recommend it but its a lot quicker and less tiring to operate than the adverts one.

    Think this is the same as the adverts one and might work out a little cheaper https://www.amazon.co.uk/tractor-Lifting-device-Cleaning-assistance/dp/B01HPUSCFC/ (when they have them in stock)?

    I can only speak about the hydraulic one. Its brilliant. First use you are a bit wary of it but after a few uses you get far less cautious. The hydraulic one is so easy to use that I tend to use it to clean the deck after every use.

    Edit> I'd add I've tested mine by giving the mower a really good shaking and it seems very secure. Mine came with a strap to put around the wheel and the movable part of the lift that secures it so it can't move off the lift - but I've never used it :-( The only downside is its a little heavy to move around and I suspect the wind up one is lighter.

    Wake me up when it's all over.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,664 ✭✭✭✭joujoujou
    Unregistered Users


    Thank you very much.

    I'm not much concerned about it being tiresome - I'm pretty sure it should be easy to convert it to be powered by impact wrench or the likes. :-)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    is it safe?? is the main question - don't wanna be under a ride on and it fails😶



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭deezell


    Well the 6 reviewers in this OZ site all gave it only 1 star.

    Aside from that, it has 7 years under its belt, but 300 hrs. Which is 43 hrs per year. That's quite heavy use maybe doing 1.5 plus hours per week over the season, so it mowed a large plot.

    At the price being asked, they're basing its value at about €6000 new, which is a high end price for this cut width class. This is assuming the use is average but I would consider 300 hrs a bit more than average, more like ten years use than 7. If they're calculating about 58% depreciation, it fits the rule of thumb of first year .8 and 6 years at .9, compounded. I'd be more inclined to use 70%, .8 and 8 at .9 valuing it at about €1800, and that's generous, as I wouldn't have paid €6000 in 2015 new for a mower with a 107cm cut. And speaking of engine, while I have no opinion of Kawasaki v other engines, I noticed the seller declined to inform a poster that it had a kawasaki, stating it was a Husqvarna engine. Perhaps he didn’t know, or had issues with it over the years. He's buying a diesel (ie, commercial) engined mower to replace it, so that's a pointer to the work it done, or maybe his frustration with the petrol engine. Those are my opinions, a mix of research, maths and word signals.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,781 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    The oregon one seems perfectly safe. When you first jack a mower up on it it looks a little bit out of balance, I think because it looks unnatural more than anything. Once its up and locked in position its very stable. Another initial worry is that the mower will tip right over because of the weight being on one side (you'd be very worried if you ended up on a grass slope sitting on the mower at that angle) but again I tried to tip it over by lifting the jacked up wheel and it wasn't going anywhere. If you had a mower with a particularly high center of gravity you could strap the wheel thats jacked up to the bars its resting on. The oregon one comes with a strap for that purpose but as I said I don't use it.

    Now you can get a bit casual with it and it doesn't like it much if you don't drive the rear wheels over squarely and with the wheel opposite the side going up close into the stop. In which case it does lurch around a bit if you continue lifting as the wheels slide towards the stop under gravity and the mower centers itself on the lift as the wheels move into the gaps between the lift bars (where they should have been to start with). Still quite safe once its all up. Provided you put the mower on it correctly to start with I can't see what you could do wrong.

    Wake me up when it's all over.



  • Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭ULMarc


    How fast would you expect a self-propelled mower to be? I picked up one of these mowers from agrieuro. It has a 200cc engine. It's been going great! But I feel a bit impatient with the speed it moves at. I don't think there's much wrong with it, the cable tensions appear to be good.

    I suppose I would have expected to be turning the forward speed down, rather than leaving it on max all the time and wishing it to get a move on. I've seen videos of people almost being pulled along by self-propelled mowers.

    I get that going too fast might make the cut suffer. Maybe I need to just learn to be patient?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭deezell


    The speed variator in all these mowers are pretty standard, the final pulley on the back axle has a variable radius, the more you increase the speed lever, the tighter the belt, which separates the two sides of the pulley under spring tension. The belt then move closer into the pulley, and this smaller effective pulley diameter increases the ratio between the engine shaft diameter and the transmission pulley, thus increasing the speed.

    So to set a higher top speed, you simply need to increase the pull of the speed lever cable, rather like tightening the brakes on a bike. There will be a threaded adjuster either on the speed lever in inline on the cable. Just extend this out a little.



  • Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭ULMarc


    Yes, I've tried this. The clutch lever is as much under tension as it can go while allowing the mower to start.

    And the speed control appears to work in a way that less tension sets a higher speed. So I've backed that off as much as possible. I'm going to go out now and have another look at it to make sure I've understood it correctly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭deezell


    The clutch lever has no bearing on speed, and it's not a good idea to have the cable tightened up to the extreme as you have. Your cable will likely fail prematurely, and the pressure plate on the clutch cone will wear excessively. Back this off until full forward torque occurs just before the drive handle lever is bottomed out.

    If the higher speed occurs when the speed lever is slackened, then this can only mean that the variable pulley is either on the engine drive side, and a fully compressed pulley increases the speed, or else the transmission pulley spring holds the pulley faces open, not closed, which I've never seen. Lift the cover at the back, have a look at the arrangement from engine through idlers, tensioner and transmission pulley. The belt may be incorrectly routed, or off one of the pulleys, producing odd effects.

    I doubt if this level of mower would have a variable speed internal mechanism in the axle transmission, as this would be quite a high level option, and expensive. Pull off the covers, post a few pictures, and back off the clutch tension.

    I note it states in the spec that it has 'a sturdy gear transmission' which is vague, as a variator transmission still has a pinion and gear inside, but that doesn't make it a gearbox. Mowers with an actual gearbox would have 3-4 fixed speeds. A fully enclosed variator gearbox is a very expensive bit of engineering.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭deezell


    OK, deep in the spec for this mower is this;

    Transmission data

    Gear shifting system

    Mechanical transmission

    Gear shifting mechanics

    steel gear

    Number of forward speeds

    4

    Throttle lever

    Yes

    Traction

    rear wheels

    Actioning

    Lever on the handlebar

    So it's a 4 speed mechanical box, impressive in a mower this price with a Honda engine. So no variable speed, just a straight shift from 1 to 4. All that's left for you to check is if all four speeds are available when you move the lever. If there are only three, the cable may be too tight and its not slackening off enough to drop the box into 4th. If you have 4 speeds, and 4th is too slow, not a lot you can do I'm afraid. * this is assuming that they're not implying that the 4 notches of a variator belt transmission are 'gears', and not just steps in range of ratios. You'll know if its a gearbox, as there will be a distinct shift in speed on change from one to the other.



  • Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭ULMarc


    It's a variable actually. You can see in the attached pictures. The picture of the belt towards the outside of the pulley is it in the lowest speed, and the picture of it towards the inner of the pulley is it in the highest speed.

    I've slackened off the clutch cable. Thank you for the advice!




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,781 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    Variable sheave transmission, not seen one of those in donkeys years. Had a John Deere that had that arrangement.

    Belt wear can be an issue but the pulleys can also wear.

    Wake me up when it's all over.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭deezell


    That's pretty much how all domestic mowers achieve speed control. Cheap to make, the spilt sprung pulley is just added to a standard fixed speed axle in place of the normal pulley, and a pair of idlers are used to tension the belt into the vee. A real gearbox or Hydrostatic on a walk behind is serious €€€. Their spec on the agrieuro site is misleading, it reads exactly like a 4 speed box is installed.

    That one looks like it is achieving its highest ratio, the belt is right in on the minimum radius. If this is too slow, then the only option is a larger pulley on the engine spindle, which would be a DIY bodge.



  • Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭Skill


    First time poster, and i know feck all about lawnmowers. I've read back the thread to see if i can find an answer to these two questions, so apologies if i've missed it.

    We have a half acre site, most of which is lawn, but it's bitty, with three different sections and some trees and so on. It's all pretty flat. We've been using a walk-behind lawnmower, and are looking to treat ourselves to a ride-on one.

    Is there a ride-on mower you'd recommend, @deezell that would be reasonably nimble and not leave too much to clean up afterwards?

    And is there one that seems right for that size of a lawn?

    thank you!

    Post edited by Skill on


  • Registered Users Posts: 542 ✭✭✭coillsaille


    I have a chain block hoist off a RSJ steel beam in the shed. Would that do for lifting a garden tractor mower up to access underneath? Or is there anything I should watch for in terms of putting strain on the machine compared to the likes of that Oregon jack?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,781 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    The repair guy I used for parts sometimes has a similar setup with a chain hoist not totally sure how he uses it. Think its too far inside his shed for him to able to get to with his workshop being jammed full of stuff.

    Another way of lifting is to lift the front wheels

    So if you are lifting both wheels from underneath then and chock the rear wheels I don't see too much problem.

    Your obvious problem is the mower slipping backwards and getting the lift from the right spot without bending the engine cover.

    If you have the hoist you might also have an engine hoist spreader bar. That above the the engine cover with a couple of chains down to the front axle might do the job. Just depends on the mower. You'll just have to make a judgement call depending on how strong the axel looks and if you can get a suitable grip on it.


    Wake me up when it's all over.



  • Registered Users Posts: 542 ✭✭✭coillsaille


    Thanks for that. Don't have a spreader bar as the chain hoist was installed for lifting an outboard motor off a boat.

    The Oregon jack you have linked earlier lifts one rear wheel of the ride on. So do you reckon I can put a strap around a rear wheel, attach to the hoist and lift it at a similar angle to the Oregon jack? Or would it be better for the machine if I buy a spreader bar to attach the front axle to the hoist and lift the front instead.

    Haven't even gotten my ride on yet, waiting for it to arrive in, but just trying to get the planning for maintenance organised in the meantime.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,781 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    tbh I don't really like the idea of the hoist. There is nothing really that you can attach the hoist to without damaging plastic parts. The mud guards will be in the way of putting a strap around the wheel.

    By the time you have bought a spreader bar and chains you wouldn't be far off buying a dedicated jacking tool that is safe and quick. This one is down to €65 https://www.amazon.co.uk/ACHATPRATIQUE-lifter-Telescopic-saving-compare/dp/B07BHFNTRG/

    Wake me up when it's all over.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭deezell


    An ordinary set of car ramps can be really useful and quick. These halford ones work for me. Treads are close for smaller tyres, great for car work as well. €50 with a trade card, which is easy to get.




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,781 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    With the talk of lifts I thought I'd throw this up.

    The mower is rock solid and isn't going anywhere. I've tried to tip it but is won't go over (think thats prevented by the upstand that is holding the left hand rear wheel on the stand) and pushing forwards and backwards does nothing to move it. To get it up takes 45-50 pumps of the built in hydraulic jack which is hidden by the tyre. You get it all the way up then put the safety support in (I don't always bother). There is another safety feature which you can't see a bar that drops in place when its nearly fully up and prevents it dropping down this is also hidden by the pump. This bar needs to be lifted when you release the hydraulics. There is also a strap provided that is supposed to go around the higher of the two tyres on the lift.

    You obviously have less access to underneath the left hand side of the deck. Normally I can get to everything but if I need better access to that side I just drop it down and turn the mower around. On that mower there seems to be no major issue lifting either side.

    You can also see the blower fan referred to earlier. The housing for it is plastic so may be retrofittable.

    Tip for anyone removing the blades to sharpen or to replace them check the manual if the main blade bolts are left or right hand threaded (sorry probably teaching granny to suck eggs). Its not the same on every machine but on most two bladed center discharge mowers the right hand blade has a left hand thread the left hand is a normal thread. I remember it this way you untighten away from the cutting edge (the blades are also handed) and tighten into the cutting edge or that the thread is the opposite of the side the blade is on.

    Because everything is handed on the on the blade parts (blade, bolt and the fan) I take them off and replace them one at a time. It just saves having to think which one goes on which way.

    Edit> RE chain hoist to RSJ. Took a good look at my mower above and with a spreader bar and a couple of chains you could definitely lift the mower up on the front axle. If you set the spreader bar about a foot wider than the axle you wouldn't crush any of the plastic. Still not an idea I'm that taken with.

    Wake me up when it's all over.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭deezell


    The older castelgarden tc102 with the short grassbag hooks could be lifted fully upright (sans bag and battery, low fuel in tank) on a hard surface to rest on its back frame with a short thin plank under the hooks. A couple of stout persons or a savage, or a block and tackle required to lift it both ways. I seen this in a dealers workshop. Very stable, and I done it myself with the help of unwilling swmbo. Probably against health and safety nowadays.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ECO_Mental


    Hi everybody,

    Just after building a house and up until now I have had only small semi-d back gardens less than 100m2 of lawns to be cut and tbh any auld electric lawnmower did the trick.... Problem now is I have an acre to cut!😪

    Anyway I dont want this whole acre to be cut and I am planning to plant trees in a lot of it and leave the grass grow long in large areas as well. But I want it to look neat so that means cutting the boarders and paths through it so it look like it was planned (for the bees!)

    So I don't need a ride on as I reckon I will only be really cutting about a 1/4 of it if not a lot less. I am shopping around and came across this for €560 Husqvarna LC 151S Lawn Mower | Husqvarna CA

    Is it any good and would be a worthy investment? it doesn't have the B&S engine but Husqvarna would be a good brand I would have thought. Or is there a go to mower I should get.

    Thanks for the help

    6.1kWp south facing, South of Cork City



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