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Katie Taylor v. Amanda Serrano

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  • Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭Larsso30


    She did but **** me that was a tough fight especially so early in Katie's career, mccaskill was never meant to be that good. Tough fucker. A rematch I really hope Katie never takes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭Larsso30


    People genuinely under estimate the sheer pressure Katie performs under. The expectation people have for her. It's enough to make many crack which is why I rate her achievements so highly.


    Most Irish sports stars over achieve so don't perform under close to same level of pressure, Katie has had serious expectation on her time after time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55,525 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Yes. And part of why she’s number 1 in Ireland for me.

    as well as the sustained success. 15 or so years at the top.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,359 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    I see talk of a rematch potentially in Croke Park but do people really think that it could fill it?

    I know there is no better nation than the Irish for bandwagon jumping but boxing here isn't that well supported. It's also a sport that does itself no favours in that regard aside from Katie and Kelly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 38,275 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    She's the GOAT of Amateur and Professional boxing. That's what puts her in the same hemisphere as Ali and Frazier.

    There's never been anyone that dominated a sport like she has.

    No doubt she is Ireland's greatest ever sportsperson. The closest to her is probably Rory McIlroy and our best male boxer was Steve Collins.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,359 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    The GOAT of a field that can hardly be considered to have near the depth that Ali and Frasier had in front of them though. Not her fault though and she can only fight the opponent's in front of her.

    It's because of the lack of depth that makes it impossible to frame her achievement against others where their sport is more widely played. It's the same argument that rugby players come up against, or why GAA players never really rank in all time greatest sportspeople.



  • Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭Larsso30


    She would fill it, one thing that stood. Out in crowd at msg was number of women and young girls at it. She's an icon And I've no doubt she fills it. Katie is. More than. Just a regular boxer



  • Registered Users Posts: 679 ✭✭✭Housefree


    When will she be coming back to Dublin airport? Reckon she will have a bit of a turn out



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,359 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    MSG is a venue of about 20k, Croke Park is four times larger than that.

    As iconic and all that Katie is, boxing just doesn't have the broad middle class appeal necessary for those kinds of ticket sales.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Thanks for the list. If you want to say that someone isn't the best, you need to offer alternatives, and you've done that. Pity the boys posting on the thread couldn't do likewise.

    What did Keane win, compared with the true greats at the top of his sport? Is he even Ireland's greatest soccer player? I'd ask the same about Brady and Best. And anyway, isn't it easier to make a "GOAT" impression if you're in an individual sport rather than a team game? While on team sports, I'd also question the absence from your list of Brian O'Driscoll. Sonia O'Sullivan did brilliantly, but it somehow didn't seem to quite work out when it mattered most. If that's a good enough reason to exclude Eamon Coghlan, isn't it a good enough reason to exclude Sonia O'Sullivan? Roche and Kelly are up there, that can't be disputed. I'd choose Kelly over Roche, but others might disagree. Michelle Smith De Bruin? No comment, other than to wish her well in her career at the Bar. Steve Collins, Carl Frampton and Katie Taylor all have the same problem. It's that Boxing is Ireland's no. 1 individual game, maybe even the country's top "international" sport - which means it's very difficult for any one boxer to be classed as the best. You can see already that at least one other boxer has been mentioned that you left off your list. That's the thing about "GOAT" debates; they can never really be definitively decided.

    Anyway, I'm conscious that this isn't a greatest Irish sportsperson ever debate. My point was that people shouldn't dismiss one person from contention without offering at least one other alternative and a reason why. So fair play to you for the list, even if others would jump in, say no, and suggest their alternatives.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Wait what now? I'm relying on Wikipedia here, but apparently Boxing accounts for 18 of the 35 medals we've won at the Olympics.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2



    I don't begrudge Katie a gimmick fight especially if it was an easy payday for her as she deserves it, but Cyborg and Holm who I both like are not going to provide that payday. Talented but their is no money in those fights no matter the rules. I'd be shocked if Dana let Holm fight anyway.

    I dunno if the second Serrano fight can happen here, but I 'd assume its easy fight to make abroad again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,935 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    I think that post was a punny reference to the previous post he quoted mentioning "country mile".


    Or at least I hope it is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 38,275 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Do you agree that she's the best ever at her profession? Do you agree that she's reached a huge audience worldwide? The second bit puts her in the Ali/Frazier realm. The fact she's unbeaten while they both lost a few fights(Ali 5, Frazier 4) puts her on their level as well.

    The boxing GOAT is Floyd Mayweather.



  • Registered Users Posts: 38,275 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    You really haven't a clue how big Katie is, both in Ireland and abroad.

    Croke Park will sell out in minutes if they put her and Serrano on there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 38,275 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    One last comment on the fight. It's amazing how gracious Serrano was in defeat. You don't often see that and she deserves so much credit for it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭Anything4883


    Its surely a rematch against Serrano in Croke Park, or retire now on a high.

    I think if the rematch in Croke is on the table, she will go for it.

    A win or Loss there doesn't change the fact she's the greatest Irish Athlete of all time.

    Croke Park would 100% sell out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭Larsso30




  • Registered Users Posts: 55,525 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    She was, but still took time to imply that she won.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,359 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Yes, she's the best ever at her profession as a female boxer, she is an exceptional athlete and fantastic role model for young people. The cachet associated with of being the best of your profession is closely related to the depth of talent in the pool you're competing in though. The world elephant polo champions don't get the same recognition as the FIFA world cup winners for that reason. The depth of talent in women's boxing isn't there yet.

    I don't agree though that she has reached a huge audience worldwide. She is not a sports superstar outside of Ireland, she hasn't got anything like the a quarter of the profile of say Serena Williams. Step outside of Ireland and ask the common person on the street have they heard of Ali they will likely say yes, ask about Taylor, unless they are into boxing they will likely say no.

    This can be easy to forget that what is considered big or important here in Ireland is not big or important elsewhere.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,855 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Sorry but putting her anywhere near the same bracket as Muhammad Ali is absolutely mental especially if one of your main yard sticks revolves around notoriety. He's probably the most famous sportsman ever. You're also putting too much weight on remaining unbeaten. It's about who you fight and the challenges you take on.

    Floyd is maybe in the top 25/30 of all time. Not even close to being the GOAT.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55,525 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Katie is a huge name in Ireland and Britain....as for Europe and global, maybe not huge, but would be known.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55,525 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    She'd be quite well-known across all areas of society, not just those "into" boxing



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,855 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Also if taking in all era's then Jimmy McLarnin is Ireland's greatest ever fighter and it's not even remotely close tbh. Beat 13 individual hall of famers. Shame he's now literally an unknown. Most people who know their stuff on the history of the sport would say he's a top 25 boxer of all time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,855 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    It's all relative. I'd still be kind of confident she could walk down a busy street in many a UK city and not get noticed. I think as Irish people we get a morphed idea of how famous some of our sports starts are.

    Someone like Brian O'Driscoll in his pomp is as big as there's nearly ever been in this country but on a global scale he's hardly left a ripple given how irrelevant rugby is in most of the worlds bigger countries.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55,525 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I was meaning name recognition. Lot of famous people could walk places and not get physically identified/noticed; only a select few global superstars would get this type visual street recognition.

    Katie is a big name in a lot of places, and has been since before 2012. Her name was everywhere pre 2012 Olympics, and was seen as the face of women's boxing at those historic games. The main driver for why women got to London

    Since London she has become even more known



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,359 ✭✭✭MrMusician18




  • Registered Users Posts: 55,525 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    What?

    So outside of Ireland, Katie Taylor's name is not known well across areas of society? This is just not true...

    Nobody is saying she is Messi/Ronaldo/Federer, but your take is way off here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,855 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Her name was everywhere in Ireland pre the Olympics. Realistically most other countries weren't paying as much attention. The Olympics doesn't make superstars like it used to either bar a select few in the likes of the 100m. I'd be pretty confident if I mentioned David Rudisha in a random bar most wouldn't have a clue who he is.

    You say "she's a big name in a lot of places". What places are these?

    Im not trying to downplay her achievements or anything btw think she's great but I just don't think she's this massive global star that you're saying. Boxing doesn't really generate many global stars anymore bar a very odd few that transcend the sport.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,989 ✭✭✭✭Tom Mann Centuria


    I would say there's very little name recognition with Katie Taylor outside of Boxing fans in the UK. Same applies to most boxers though, including British ones, perhaps you're overstating the general publics interest in boxing outside of the massive names like Fury and Joshua.

    I doubt even Dillain Whyte would have much name recognition outside of boxing, and he was just in the biggest attended fight on UK soil ever.

    Oh well, give me an easy life and a peaceful death.



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