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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    If this conflict takes on an anti-Semitic character (and it well could despite the Kremlin's horsesh*t about Nazism), Israel will have no hesitation at deploying underhanded tactics they are experts at. As you noted, Russia (and Ukraine) has a large Jewish minority



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,475 ✭✭✭bennyineire


    I think we can clearly state that the fires on multiple sites inside Russian territory is clearly sabotage.

    Who started the fire last night in Moscow for instance, no way this wasn't intentional

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/05/03/fire-hits-russian-publisher-embroiled-in-ukraine-textbook-controversy-a77563



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,799 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    Oh yeah, I mean Israel is everywhere. The FSB is bad but it doesn't hold a candle to what The Mossad is capable of.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Next Lavorov will be a holocaust denier,incredible how stupid you can get



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,799 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    True, but it's a bit of a stretch to say the whole point of this is to denazify but then start attacking Israel of all places.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,022 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    Just in regards to if Russia does declare war on Ukraine, how many soldiers realistically can Russia muster up? Reading there about 261k conscripts but lowest level in a good while. How much training would these need to get up to scratch or would they be just thrown in straight off the mark into battle? Also if they really fully mobilised the population how long could Ukraine hold out then for example if Russia mobilised say a few million if conscription was put in place say for all males between 17 to 30? Also how long does Russia basic training go on for? As I suppose if full mobilisation is declared how long would Ukraine have before these soldiers then started to filter onto the Battlefield against them? Could be huge numbers then.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,884 ✭✭✭✭josip




  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Cheery thoughts for Russia in review from UK MoD.





  • Registered Users Posts: 11,058 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    They'd be cannon fodder literally, surely if they tried that. You can't just push thousands of conscripts onto the field of battle on foot and hope they swamp the Ukrainian forces. Would require huge logistics and support. Sitting ducks like those early convoys and you'd have to believe the Ukrainian army would fully exploit that now. There'd be massive desertion rates.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,930 ✭✭✭Cordell


    As the war already shown us, it's not the number, it's getting them there where they need to be.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,982 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    every man within fighting age will be forced to fight , it will be ww2 tactics in which Russian citizens by the million will be sent to ukraine as fodder



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,884 ✭✭✭✭josip


    I have no military experience but I would imagine that it would take 6 months to get conscripts trained up and the logistics (transport, billetting, equipment, etc) in place for them to be effective. And by then, it's winter.

    So the more likely approach from Russia would be to try to get them to Ukraine in time to have an effect. But the trade off is still that the sooner you get them to Ukraine, the less trained and equipped they are and thus less effective for combat.

    It's probable that conscripts would/should be given the role of holding on to existing territory, thus freeing up the more battle-hardened troops for front line activities.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Oh they do crow about wins on their side, but the confiscation of most Russian soldier's phones going in means they're relying on either their TikTok Czechens or embedded Russian press. The Ukrainians have been winning the information side from the get go. What with freer citizens, soldiers, non Ukrainians living there and the rest of the world's press. I didn't see the Russian forces confiscating phones as particularly sinister as armies would be naturally and understandably cautious about giving away intel because some muppet on the frontlines was updating to telegram in realtime and of course the Russian need to clamp down on information they don't control(the sinister part).

    Well the Russians faced big problems there. Big being the operative word. Ukraine is a huge nation. Russian supply logistics are not built for external wars the way the US' are. Would NATO have gained air superiority by now? Bloody right they would have and within the first month, but it wouldn't have been a complete walk in the park even for them because of the sheer scale of the country.

    Russia buggered up their puzzlingly stupid drive for Kyiv, but finally seem to be learning some lessons and "closer to home" in the East have made gains in taking large tracts of land. Keeping them is another matter, but there is little doubt they've taken them. They currently hold the "independent republics" and the land corridor to Crimea. If you overlay Ukraine on a map of the US.

    You get an idea of the size of the place and in that map they've taken New York city, Washington DC, New Jersey, Delaware, and a goodly chunk of Virgina. From what I"ve been reading they do hold air superiority or close to it in those areas, it's at the edges of those areas and the rest of the country they don't.

    That Ukraine is able to keep the Russian air force on tenterhooks is a testament to their skills, tactics and bravery. They have ground to air kit and more is getting in but they're vastly outnumbered and in air to air engagements the Ukrainians are facing more advanced aircraft and more advanced missile systems. EG the Ukrainian air to air missiles aren't fire and forget. You need to keep the target painted by radar until it hits. That leaves the firing aircraft very vulnerable. The Russian systems can lock on, fire and then get the feck out of Dodge and let the missile do its thing. While it's not a patch on the US and European kit the Russians also have much more over the horizon, or at least at a distance missile capabilities. As I say the fact that Ukraine denies Russian air superiority over the majority of Ukrainian airspace is an incredible feat.

    And yeah, doubling down on Israel on the antisemitism stuff is through the looking glass unreal on a few levels.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 873 ✭✭✭Addmagnet


    They're becoming endangered, much more difficult to spot one in the wild :p



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    And?

    Despite the words Nazi and Jew should be always antonyms, it was few exceptions in Ukraine

    You can google yourself about Khaim Sygal and choose sources you would trust. There is an article in Journal of Genocide Research, but there are others as well

    https://www.academia.edu/62518910/The_Many_Lives_and_Afterlives_of_Khaim_Sygal_Borderland_Identities_and_Violence_in_Wartime_Ukraine

    Jew, Yiddish teacher, Ukrainian nationalist, head of Ukrainian police in Dubrovytsia responsible for extermination of 1500 local Jews and personally killed a lot of Jewish children. Later he got a job in SD and a few witnesses on his trial saw him in SS uniform in the rank of Untersturmführer.

    The only reason he has been caught was that one of Dubrovytsia Holocaust survivors recognized him in a queue for immigration to Israel, so in 1952 murderous Stalin’s regime executed him for his crimes

    During Cold War, some Western historians were trying to present him as anti-Stalinist, but after the Ukrainian SBU released his file for public access in 1990s, it was learned that after USSR took Eastern Ukraine, Khaim Sygal joined NKVD where he was participating in purges against class enemies such as Polish intelligentsia and rich Jews.

    His name resurfaced during the last presidential elections in Ukraine, when Ukrainian Nazis started to tell to themselves that a Jewish president without real power is not a disaster, especially in exchange for NATO made weapons

    It was a few other Jews who joined Ukrainian nationalists during WW2 and charged later for genocide, but this guy was truly exceptional, like Zelinsky now



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    No point sending them when they can't supply them plus where will they get all the requisite weaponry? At nearly Day 70 it is not mad to state that this war is lost. Even the lesser targets of the enclaves look beyond them at this point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




  • Registered Users Posts: 16,204 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    There's a good book by Hannah Arendt called the origins of totalitarianism. She draws explicit comparisons between the nazi's and Stalins Russia. Not in their individual beliefs but in how they were both authoritarian. How the regimes targeted people. How there was a single ideology in the country. How they attempted to infiltrate every aspect of life and how they each created an "other" that needed to be wiped out. They always placed the blame for everything that's wrong with a group of people that were hidden inside. The jews, capitalists etc that were working to undermine and if it wasn't for them, it would be a utopia.

    Most other fascist/communist countries didn't have that aspect.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,251 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69


    Why are you suggesting ? Assassinations ? Bombings ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,204 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Jaysus. That's a hot take. I'd accuse you of being a Russian shill from that "Internet Research Agency" but I don't think even they'd post something that bizarre.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "Thousands of years ago..." Let me stop you there, chum.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,022 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    I think that's correct for certain armies it's up to 6 months. If they were to start from scratch I wonder wolhat you would basically need to get up to some sort of standard I.e. 6 wks or the likes. But yeah I say you could have them in a holding position of just holding rear areas and freeing up your better forces but will come to a point that they will need to fight as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,658 ✭✭✭storker


    Even the pulp WW2 fiction write Sven Hassel visited that theme a number of times in his books, although by way of throwaway comments rather than in-depth analysis. In his characters' view there were Brown Nazis and Red Nazis and damn-all difference between them.

    ‘Well, well, one thing is sure enough. Adolf has lost his war. If we could only destroy the red Nazis along with our brown ones it would be the first time a war had ended in a sensible way.’


    ‘Are they anything but lice, foul lice without souls? There’s not a bit of difference between Ivan’s red ones and our brown ones.’

    That said, his characters were those who at various times had found themselves on the wrong end of the system, so considerations like state ownership of industry etc probably wouldn't have been all that relevant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Sources? How about this one from the Journal of Genocide Research (peer reviewed unlike your garbage)...

    "...Then, after the Soviet Union’s demise, citing the Gladkov publication openly as the source, though stripped of its literary trappings, the far-right Russian nationalist organization, Pamiat’, published an article in 1992 about Sygal, which described him as a Holocaust perpetrator.64 Its author presented the Sygal case as an “instructive story,” wielding it as a cudgel to attack a gamut of politicians and activists, as well as the idea of an independent Ukraine. In keeping with the racist agenda of Pamiat’ and in a register similar to the Chekisty publications, the article denounces Jews, Ukrainian nationalists, and Bolsheviks as participating together in a conspiracy against Russians.

    This brief, ridiculous publication gave the Sygal story traction among other “patriotic” and antisemitic far-right Russian groups. Thus, with the Pamiat’ publication as a source, Sygal’s name is featured on a number of Russian-language internet lists claiming to unmask “hidden Jewish-Zionists” and “masked” Jews accused of crimes against the Russian people (and others) over the last thousand years (give or take). These lists, with changes and additions, have continued to be posted online until recently.65 In short, echoing common paranoia in post-Soviet Russian nationalism, Sygal is portrayed not just as a stereotypically perfidious Jew, but sometimes also as an American “intelligence agent.”

    Get lost with your anti-Semitic Russian nationalist sh*te, and get lost trying to tie-in Zelensky with it.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Without the fall of Constantinople it's quite likely Russia wouldn't be the Russia it became or is today. Byzantine influence went west into Europe, but also and more so into the north and Russia, where Moscow inherited/gave itself the title of the "Third Rome" and the ruler became Caesar/Czar/Tzar. Even the two headed eagle of Russia is a Roman/Byzantine symbol. The god botherer stuff is also a schism of the old Eastern and Western Roman world. It's one reason why the crusaders sacked Constantinople. That centuries old rivalry and seeing them as different was still in play.

    So why did Europe become a "beautiful garden" and Russia for the most part didn't? Well the Mongols invading Russia didn't help, but mostly it was because Europe was a collection of competing nation states, who inherited both Greek and Roman classical thought, Russia was more influenced by the Greek, but was more northern in temperament and it was an empire and empires are very prone to inward thinking and stagnation. Peter the Great tried to look outward and did, but that had been resisted, not least by the Church. Europe also moved away from feudal society and gained more and more social mobility(particularly after the Black Death) and the Reformation sped things up. Russia clung onto feudalism, kept serfdom legal until the middle of the 19th century and social mobility was much less in play and had no Reformation to shake the old ways up.

    In essence the Russian empire stayed pickled somewhere in the 14th century, European nations didn't.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,982 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    in ww2 they were supplied by the dead guy in front of them and that's where putin in headin!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Fiery mutant


    Perhaps he will have an accident while under the knife 😏

    We should defend our way of life to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed, so that any adversary will never make such an attempt in the future.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,923 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




  • Registered Users Posts: 18,515 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    I think he was just trying to get in a snide and offensive dig at Zelensky and Ukraine but didn't realise the implications of what he was saying re. Israel. This is what happens though when you start drinking the "Ukrainians are all Nazis" Kool aid.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭Ceramic


    Just for a closer to home scale.

    from: thetruesize.com



This discussion has been closed.
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