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CSO rental report & Landlord statistics

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    The only people I know (and a i knew a fair few of them) who are still landlords at this point cant sell. Two of them are paying mortgages, maintenance and taxes on properties that have had no rent in years. One about 4 years and the other about 3 years. They other has leased to the council and is having a nightmare with them. But at least they are getting rent. They are all dying to get the tenants out and sell.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,538 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Well there are probably plenty of accidental landlords, or else people who got a land after the last crash who are likely sitting on a windfall now and want to cash out. That is understandable too.

    Regarding the non-payment of rent - tenants do have a huge imbalance of power there. But if you are talking about 4 years of non-payment then I assume the landlord must have messed up at some stage along the process? It can be easy enough not to have the i's dotted or the t's crossed but you will ultimately get the non-payer out by following the process. A brazen tenant can take the absolute pi$$ and drag it out a huge amount, but not indefinitely.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭sk8board


    i get your point, but you’re numbers are far to basic, the deposit is 30% min, and the facts bear out that absolutely no-one is doing what you suggest (or 1.5% of mortgages are, but it’s tiny)

    ‘Professional’ LLs invest for rental yield, not capital appreciation - I know this is counter intuitive, but the capital appreciation is a secondary taxable gain, and doesn’t really matter until you sell, (or your kids inherit and sell)

    if you’re buying for the appreciation, you’re taking a heck of a risk. Likewise, if you only buy one rental, or are an accidental LL with one rental, you’re also taking one heck of a risk, with all your income coming from one tenant.

    no investment logic would consider it a wise investment at this present time, versus other assets. This is proven by the simple fact that there’s 15-20 LLs successfully selling out of the market every single day or the year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,538 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Putting a substantial portion of your money into buying one of anything though is mental risky. If you are the unlucky person who gets shafted, you are fecked!



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    No messing up. Its a minimum of 2 to 3 years if a tenants wants to dig in. But when you have the process stalling like it has the last two years, its like a never ending nightmare for them.

    You would think there would be an end in sight now but their solicitor says there is not end point at the moment.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,538 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Ok that's fair enough. I was under the impression that most of the extremely long delays result from the landlord learning the hard way that the correct notices should have been served as soon as possible etc.


    Not paying rent and overholding is thievery though and should be prosecuted as such. The tenants should have to convince the Courts as to why they were entitled to do so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,098 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    It will send this thread off track away from the report and statistic's if we engage with the tired old trope of its easy money and its LLs to blame from people with half baked information and zero experience. Its been the cause of a few closed threads recently.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,098 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    It would be interesting to know long a property was rented before it left the market. Are these long term rental properties leaving the market or recent properties who couldn't make it work. Likewise the rent of the properties leaving and those entering. I assume this pushing rents up. But it would nice to see it the stats.

    You get this indirectly from the age of the LL, but as LL population ages as a general trend this becomes less useful.



  • Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭Ham_Sandwich


    people still have a bad view of land lords even though they have to pay taxes on their rental income AS WELL as any income from their employment/other businesses which is unbelievable in this day and age and people don’t realise that a lot of l and lords now are accidental land lords who ended up with properties to rent out that they didn’t plan for theres a lot of headaches to go along with being a land lord but people just like moan and bash them



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    What's unbelievable about paying tax on earned PAYE and passive income like rental?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,098 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    I agree, but the way that rental income is taxed is unethical. Revenue's concept of unearned income should be abolished.

    This thread focuses a lo factors that drive out landlords, but in my opinion, the factors pushing demand are far more important. We have the second highest population growth rates in Europe. The only country with fastest growth rates also has a terrible housing problem (Luxembourg). Growing populations have also been associated with higher rental prices here. Some of this growth is natural, but some is immigration, which the Central Bank has identified as a major driver housing needs. There is also a rapid drop in household size by about a 1/3 over the last 40 years which fuels demand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,098 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I agree.

    There are lot of different issues and different demands at the low end and the high end. Mirroring this are different supply issues. We are driving net immigration to over fuel an economy and over fuel a housing market.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    inflated adjusted rent prices and national population growth




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭sk8board


    Tagging on 2 LL stats I see in the news this week:

    1. the RTB say there is a 50% drop in new landlord registrations - in other words, (1) as landlords leave the market their properties aren’t being purchased by other landlords, and (2) people are choosing to sell an existing property into the current high market rather than become an accidental landlord.
    2. Daft listings for rentals is now just 800. For some context, at the top of the market in 2010, there were 24,000 rentals listings (ref: daft rental report 2021), we all know the reasons why it was so high. Indeed if you want somewhere under €2000, there are just 450. Likewise if you want a 3-bed, at any price or condition, there are just 330 in the whole country.


    the rental market continues to shrink.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    Minister for housing said today that more regulations of short term lets is likely. Owners who advertise properties on sites like airbnb will need a licence.

    Will that help the rental market?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭sk8board


    Not really - it’s been the case since 2019/20 that short term rentals needed planning permission, if it was over 90 days of rental pa, total, and no more that 14 days continuously.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    I think thats just his kite. Really what he is going to do is ban short term lets altogether or make them as undesireable to run as he has made being an ordinary landlord. Typical short sighted stuff.

    No matter what he does he will only make the situation worse. Politician after politician has made this country so much worse over the last few years.

    They really have no view past twitter and the next election.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    I know a lot of lads who live with their parents and use Airbnb to hold down a hybrid job in the capital. So Airbnb is not just for tourists.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    Many of the people doing airbnb type short lets may not want to provide their property on a full time basis. Adding extra layers of red tape, like special licences, may turn that supply off. The minister, eoin o'broin and the ceo of threshold think more legislation will magic up an extra four thousand plus places to the rental market, but the evidence is already there that many people don't want to be long-term landlords.

    It's been very clear in the past few months that a lot of people are more than happy to make their property available for short term, eg to do occassional lets or help with refugee accommodation, but they don't want to be landlords that are tied into long term contracts.

    All the talk about the 8000 properties that will come from the fair deal changes is pie in the sky too. How could someone who is an elderly patient in a nursing home manage being a landlord? People might say "but they have kids/family/relatives " who could take care of it for them, but who would give themselves that headache and then at some future date have another headache trying to sort out the elderly relatives estate that now comes with tenants? Bonkers.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    Exactly. Not everyone wants a long term rental.

    Maybe the minister should allow providers to choose what type of accommodation they want to offer to the market, ie short, medium, long term, indefinite.

    Instead of the current situation where anyone letting a dwelling has no choice and must become a landlord of indefinite duration. Imagine if consumers could only access 5 star hotels or buy Mercs 😂😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Whats more frightening here now is that it looks to me that if you give up your holiday home or short term let to refugees you will be the first one to suffer from any new regulation they bring in to "discourage" you from letting it normally.

    Posession is 9 tenths of the law for our government. So give up your property with your eyes open to what they might do to you down the road.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    QUOTE : "Imagine if consumers could only access 5 star hotels or buy Mercs 😂😂"

    Thats exactly what has happened with housing. You now cannot build less than a 5 star house. That comes at a cost. Then gets knocked on to the general property and rental markets.

    Sure now you cant even build an extension that would have cost you €30k 10 or 15 years ago with yourself and a few tradesmen. That same extension will cost you more like €150k now with all the regulations and hoops they have created.



  • Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭JayPS 2288


    What is the final step if the tenant refuses to play ball?

    Will the Gardaí pull them out of the house?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    They can eventually be forcefully removed after the good few years it takes gets to that point. Accompanied by the media filming it to put on a "look at the poor tenant being evicted" story.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    I think the garda are only present to keep the peace and ensure citizens are safe, like the case in Prussia Street last year when squatters were evicted. I remember years ago seeing an order for possession addressed to the county sheriff - I thought it was a joke, as I'd only heard of sherriffs from the middle ages or the wild west, but not so, they are still here afaik.



  • Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭JayPS 2288


    So who actually removes the person physically if they won’t go?

    Surely once everything’s in order the “tenants” or squatters are breaking the law and the Gardaí have to remove them?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    Interesting question JayPS, never really gave it much thought. IDK if it happens on a regular basis, but there have been a few reports in the news in recent years. I don't think it's the garda's job to remove squatters, so presumably when the the landlord has the legal paperwork, they hire their own agents and inform the garda. Maybe the sherriff arrives at the door and orders the squatters to leave 🤣🤣🤣 (sorry, couldn't resist that).

    Good luck to anyone trying to rent a place after that kind of publicity though, I'd say most landlords would run a mile.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    True about extensions. I have heard that under 'Housing for all', planning permission capacity is being set aside for new builds. councils are being told to planning applications for extensions in a slow lane. But I cant find the source



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,991 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    Sheriff gets the Gardaí if they expect trouble or it gets physical. The Gardaí will remove them with force. I'm assuming it rarely comes to that, most people at that stage of the process accept the next steps.

    In the few cases years ago where large numbers of squatters moved in to stop the eviction, the Gardaí and the sheriff just left it alone for a bit until interest died down, protestors/squatters moved on, then rocked in with a with a significant amount of force behind them and turfed them out.



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