Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

But is my overall point fatalistic, or just a rarely seen matter of fact?

All the posts here are saying to either reshuffle a problem without point, to further divvy up resources and decrease quality of life, or to pretend that building more of everything is achievable.

Hands up who sees a new hospital being built within the next decade.

Hands up who thinks we're going to build enough housing to significantly reduce costs within the next decade.

Hands up who sees sufficient retirement villages made available within the next decade?

Hands up, basically, for who thinks we are remotely close to a sustainable country, and not heading the entirely opposite direction.

Uncomfortable conclusions are not fatalistic. Day dreams, in the face of reality, are, however, fatal. Here we are.

We need to concentrate fully on the achievable and leave the pipe-dreams behind. We need to start reducing the population, we need to get rid of the unsustainable short term gains and plan for a better future.

For broad examples, all visa programmes need to be scrutinised, if someone is coming here to learn English and staying for 8 years to work in a cafe, it needs to go. If MNC's need to import 70% of their workforce for some new project, thanks, but no thanks. If some mega landlord wants to build 200 single bedroom apartments on build-to-rent-at-max, no thanks. EU free movement, sorry, but we have a deepening housing crisis and a temporary restriction is being activated, thanks for your understanding. Non-eu immigration, no more, we have a housing crisis. Skilled, unskilled, layabouts, entrepreneurs, it makes no difference, they all need to be housed, and we don't have enough.

Sustainability. If your business can't survive without cheap imported labour, then you have a failed business. If your business requires 500 Asian experts in Ireland, then your business is in the wrong place. If you came here and require social housing to stay here, then you can't afford to be here.

That's merely touching the tip of the iceberg. You are either serious about a sustainable future and are willing to tackle the actual bonafide issues that are growing exponentially, or you want to stay asleep and keep dreaming about stuff that's just never, ever going to happen (swathes of new homes, schools, hospitals, affordability, increased quality of life and so).

You're living in la la Land. Tellytubby territory.

I've heard the same tired, broken nonsense year in and year out. Yet here we are.

The EU movement rules are rules written on paper. They, like all rules, can be changed. It is, despite all wailing, as simple that. It is a detriment to the housing situation in this country. Any crisis maintained by some rule or regulation unfit for purpose is pure cod-ology.

"Oh but the money from all the extra people!" Yeah, we'll deal with the existing crisis first, then deal with any ensuing currently non-existing crisis next. It's complete rubbish to ignore one problem for the sake of a theoretical one. Hare brained.

As for the buy to let stuff, more pie in the sky. Another plead to the insanity of an actual problem versus could-be problem. "You'd be living in a housing crisis if it weren't for the things that created the housing crisis!". Good grief, talk about circular reasoning.

These insufferable excuses have been bandied about for so long, and always with the opposite effect in reality, that it's like a chicken crossed the road joke. An actual joke.

Why don't you tell me another of the old chestnuts, like "if we build more....!"

As said, it's time to get real about actual solutions that are achievable, no more dreams.

Not all paddies problems can be blamed on johnny foreigner. We were a basket case long before brown people arrived.

Woeful. Just purely woeful conversation.

I'm presenting a raft of ideas, all aimed at reducing the population, be they brown, french, multinational corporations, vulture funds, Americans or Indians. And your contribution is, essentially, "racism"

All while unironically using the word "paddies".

Magnificent.

It's a hard dose of reality, but I'm making my points and I'm being clear about solutions to the housing crisis.

What are you doing? What are you suggesting?

Your posting style is unacceptable, and this thread is not about immigration.

Please read the forum charter, and the warnings in the opening post before posting in this thread again

Do not reply to this post

Yes you are right that high rates that banks charge developers is to discourage lending. And just to be clear this is not the bank increasing rates to make money…it is reflecting the capital cost of this type of lending which increased worldwide following ‘08 banking crash….This is all dictated by the BIS and implemented in the EU under CRDIV not by the banks or the governments.

Without funds providing finance to developers there would be practically no building.

We're having great fun trying to move at the moment. This time last week we were the top bidder on a house which was already 80k over asking price and now it's gone up almost the same again so we're out.

People are offering crazy money for properties and it seems to be getting worse.

Sorry I don't understand

Are you telling us that lending to build homes is actively penalised across the world,

What genius came to the conclusion that no homes were needed after 08.

This makes no sense

Did you ever wonder why banks stopped lending to developers and they turned to funds to finance developments?

It’s because for every Euro they lend to CRE then need to hold a Euro in capital in case of default.

I.e a 10 m loan requires the bank to hold 10m in capital… that 10m capital is enough to lend 28m in mortgages which will have a higher margin for the bank.

As I said this is an international rule not just Irish to prevent another ‘08 crash.

This is why you don’t see small developers anymore

Source https://www.bis.org/basel_framework/chapter/CRE/20.htm

Even if they paused immigration for a period it wouldn’t resolve the housing issue as it would lead to wage increases as employers poach staff to try and keep the show on the road which in turn would mean being able to borrow more and increase house prices further.

wait until the employers start paying a signing bonus for taking a job….it’s not far of that at the moment in some sectors which as you say leads to a greater divide and pushes property further out of reach for many not working in these sectors.

Thanks, didn't know

Hillaroius stuff. Asset price bubble on steroids.

So our youth go homeless because our banks can't behave, and full control of housing handed to the sector that crashed the world. no wonder the far right/left are thriving

This is the best the greatest financial minds can come up with.

God help us!

Any new apt blocks I've worked on have been very much built down to the absolute minimum floor area allowed by the planners and developers have been fighting with planners to omit any internal corridor to reduce them in size again and planning guidelines do include a minimum storage space but its not much and not up to a larger "family home" type standard which I'm sure is more common on the continent plus we generally lack the local amenities to service apt living for families such as parks, playgrounds and good public transport, any above average size apt with those nearby is 500k+ so not exactly the answer to a housing crisis!

Lets also not forget the very recent past of parents with one or two kids going mad being confined into one small apartment during covid lockdowns, maybe they had one small balcony and that was it, so its not surprising people are prepared to pay so much for a house with a garden!