Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

US Supreme Court to overturn Roe vs Wade

Options
191012141533

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 29,099 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    actually it's not relevant at all, just the usual screechy brigade sound bites which have no substance.

    for someone screeching how people should not worry about what others do, you seem very worried about what others do.

    what they do is no different to what you do, you are happy to throw whoever under the bus when it suits yourself going on your posts.

    so the fo-outrage act won't work with the roadster, i am afraid.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Tell that to Texas , where if Roe v Wade is removed it will immediately become an offence carrying a 20 year sentence for a Doctor to perform an Abortion on a victim of Rape.

    That's not a law that has been proposed , that's a law that has been voted on and passed by the Texas Legislature and is currently only held in check by Roe vs. Wade.

    Literally the second that SCOTUS announces their decision to rescind Roe vs. Wade , that becomes law - And there are multiple other States with similar laws that will also immediately come into effect.



  • Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭whatchagonnado


    The imaginary scenario you are inventing is an edge case, and more or less irrelevant to the discussion.

    The impact and risk to a woman of being pregnant and aborting or not is far greater than it is for a man.

    If a man has the 'gift of a child' taking away from him by an abortion on a Monday, he can go and shoot his chuff up another woman on a Tuesday et voila.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,899 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    That's patently ridiculous. Men shouldn't be able to dictate to women what they do with their bodies. Biology is sexist but it is the way it is.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭whatchagonnado


    Good insight into the anti-choice brigade's mindset, still obsessed with men telling women what to do.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The overarching takeaway I've gotten from US politics is that too much of is based on courts and the president's executive powers. It's really really broken and nothing like democracy whatsoever when the presidential vote is what creates the supreme court, and filibusters stop the other branches of government from doing their jobs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,072 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Roe v. Wade does not permit abortion after foetal viability.

    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,072 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    This kind of reasoning is really rather silly and has an awful incel bang off it tbh.

    When a foetus is in a woman's body it is totally dependent on her body. Pregnancy has significant, lifelong effects on a woman's body and significant health risks. It's not reasonable for anyone else to dictate that she must continue to carry a pregnancy she does not wish to or which puts her health or even life at greater risk than she is willing to accept.

    Once a baby has been brought into the world, then both parties responsible for creating it have a responsibility for its welfare.

    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



  • Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭whatchagonnado


    Talking about screeching, that rabid anti lunatic screeching at Elizabeth Warren yesterday, god, can he not hear himself?



  • Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭whatchagonnado


    A constitution dictated to them by a Twitter troll who became President and 'elected' extremists to the Supreme Court.



  • Advertisement
  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    They can be involved in the discussion but at the end of the day, a man doesn’t have to carry the pregnancy. Your body is not impacted whatsoever.

    Stop trying to control women.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,899 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I think it's mental. Each state gets 2 senators for the upper house so you have very small red states able to obstruct policy which ends up getting made arbitrarily by the executive and the judiciary. It's a perversion of democracy.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,771 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    Yeah, see this is where the pro-life argument really hits the end of its course of logic, and where its sense of morality becomes utterly self-servingly duplicitous. Knowing full well the horror and inhumanity which is inherent in forcing a rape victim to bear their rapist’s child, the pro-life advocates (well, at least those of them who don’t go along with the belief that even rape victims shouldn’t be allowed abortions) drop all pretence regarding their appreciation for the sanctity and beauty of life, or the right to life of the unborn, when it comes to those unborn who through no fault of their own have the misfortune of being the product of rape. They will be quick to use members of the Down Syndrome community as examples of the lives the silent holocaust would have never allowed to happen — “the people who the liberals say don’t deserve to be born” etc etc. But the pro-lifers don’t regularly tend to wheel out people who were born from rape (including statutory rape) or any other form of coerced sex (nor indeed their victim mothers for all that). It would of course be a bit awkward to lambast the loony left for playing God in who gets to be born and who doesn’t, when you’re also doing the same thing when it comes to a potential child who didn’t ask to be conceived via rape.

    Essentially, from the perspective of these people, the mantra is: “Others need to be educated that life is precious and that the right to life of the unborn trumps all — unless of course the unborn foetus is a product of rape, in which case it’s life isn’t so precious so abort away”.

    That’s the logical quandary that has always put me off the pro-life argument : you either have to defend the reprehensible notion that a rape victim must be forced to bear their rapist’s child, or you have to literally be a complete hypocrite when it comes to the moral absolute which makes you pro-life in the first place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,739 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Its the same with the moronic electoral college system. It only exists so that minority Republicans get far more power than they would ever get in an actual democracy.

    Its hilarious to see anyone call any part of the American systems "democracy" they just dont understand the word.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,099 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    for him to stop trying to control women, he would have to be trying to do so in the first place, which he isn't.

    meaning this non-argument is also redundant.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Lies. Never said anything such a thing. You need to wind your neck in. If you want to go around spreading lies and slander I can do the same for you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Not all pro life people have the same opinion. By the way I'm pro abortion.

    Rape is an evil crime. No one wants an innocent person punished for life.

    Outside of rape, getting pregnant is a choice. Having sex with or without protection, there's always a chance of pregnancy. Don't want to get pregnant? Don't have sex.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Show me where I am trying to control women?

    I'm fine with women having final say, not even entertaining the opinion of the father is wrong and cruel. And men should have a get out clause just like women do.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Absolutely - As I said in an earlier post the entire Legislative process in the US is broken seemingly beyond repair leading to people having to rely on SCOTUS decisions to afford them basic civil rights and equality.

    It is functionally impossible for either side to legislate for things like Abortion , Gay Marriage , Contraception as either side can block the passage of the legislation with impunity via the Filibuster and then the mountains that need to be climbed to bring about Constitutional change are simply beyond logic.

    Allied to that the blatant engineering of the Supreme Court nomination process by McConnell, we are now in a position where there is an extremist SCOTUS in place for potentially the next decade or more at least (until one or both of Thomas and Alito exits).

    The language in the Alito opinion clearly opens the pathway to challenge both the availability of Contraception and Gay Marriage - Where he says that "Abortion isn't in the Constitution" , I mean it's utter tripe , but it's the angle they'll use to make their moves in the direction.

    Multiple GOP Senators have already talked about both of those rulings as things "they'd like to send back to State control" which is code for "We want to be able to ban it" and at least one has even suggested that the Loving vs Virginia ruling should also be overturned and reverted back to State level legislation.

    And for those unfamiliar the Loving vs. Virginia SCOTUS decision is the one that allows for Inter-Racial marriage.

    The GOP, the party that definitely aren't Racist Misogynic homophobes want to overturn the 3 rulings that provide for Female Reproductive Rights , LGBTQ Marriage Equality and Racial Marriage equality.

    Anyone suggesting that this is to do with "States Rights" or "Federal Overreach" can just GTFO as the GOP are perfectly happy for Heller vs. District of Columbia to stand and see absolutely no reason why that should be overturned and jurisdiction returned to the States.

    Again , just FYI - Heller vs. District of Columbia is the one that confirms the right to Gun Ownership.

    If it walks like a duck......



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    This was exactly why the evangelicals backed a twice divorced notorious womaniser, who was even caught on tape talking about grabbing women by the genitals.

    They were looking at the bigger picture.

    FFS the likes of Gary Hart got hosed from the democratic nomination just because of him pictured with a woman on a boat (fully clothed) who he had an affair with.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well I think any multiple party system is a perversion of democracy so I agree, though that is likely my most controversial opinion. Proper referenda like Ireland's are the best compromise where the systems like that exist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    This might have much wider implications than just abortion.

    It could open the doors to allowing other federal laws be removed in favour of states.

    That means good bye to federal laws that dictated to states about same sex marriage, inter racial marriage, even non segregation in education, etc.

    There has long been a battle between federal and states.

    The Southern and Mid Western states will want to go back to the stone age.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,996 ✭✭✭✭briany


    That George Carlin routine isn't even true. Anti-abortion campaigners aren't really interested in mothers abusing their body while pregnant and potentially killing the foetus or giving it lifelong (possibly a short life) defects, so they can go f*ck themselves before they're born as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,570 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    And could in reaction lead to Democrats/liberals/progressive pushing for greater federal government jurisdiction over these matters?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,925 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    It’s a false dilemma to argue that the issue is whether or not anyone has the right to use the law as a blunt instrument to deny women autonomy over their own bodies. Nobody, man or woman, has full autonomy over their own bodies. With regards to reproduction and abortion specifically, it’s required to be regulated by law as the State has an interest in the issue.

    I don’t think anyone who is anti-choice would have any more or less respect than they do or don’t have already. I wouldn’t consider it respect if someone only claimed to respect me because I agreed with their opinions. That’s not respect. It’s not even worth addressing claims which infer that anyone who is anti-choice doesn’t also advocate for help for struggling mums, better schools funding, help with accommodation and so on, when in reality, they actually do all those things already. Those things are unrelated to abortion.

    You must surely be aware of the fact that religious organisations do provide all those sorts of supports to families and to women who have had abortions. The original plaintiff in Roe v. Wade, Norma McCorvey, later became an Evangelical Protestant and anti-abortion activist, claiming to have been used as a pawn by abortion activists, which was true. What is also true is that she was used as a pawn by anti-abortion activists -

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norma_McCorvey

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/12/28/norma-mccorvey-obituary-216184/


    That happens when your idea of respect is predicated upon your agreement with another person’s opinions.



    A man has no legal obligations towards a child that hasn’t been born yet. It’s his sperm, but it’s not his body. Depositing his sperm wherever he wishes does not give him ownership rights over anything or anyone else, regardless of how much a gift he imagines it is. Maintaining that a man should have zero contact with his children is not in the child’s best interests, and States in the US are beginning to regulate sperm donation because of some of the issues raised by anonymous sperm donation -

    https://theconversation.com/amp/sperm-donation-is-largely-unregulated-but-that-could-soon-change-as-lawsuits-multiply-174389


    In spite of the assertion that a child is a gift, by way of trying to justify forcing women to give birth against their wishes, pregnancy is not a gift if the woman in question did not choose to become pregnant in the first place. To be fair to you, you do concede that exceptions could be made in certain circumstances, but your exceptions are of little value when children are born and a rapist is entitled to access to their children -

    https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/1432450001


    The attempt to force a woman into having an abortion by way of threatening to withdraw support from the child is just a non-starter. It’s a rather vindictive argument that has nothing to do with abortion. In any case it’s why laws exist that hold both parents are responsible for their children’s welfare, because it’s in the best interests of the child.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Yes , but actually achieving that is massively difficult.

    The Filibuster would have to go for a start as that blocks any legislation getting passed or in some cases even getting to the floor for a vote.



  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Filibusters should simply removed from existence. If a 14-year-old in debate class is not allowed to go over their alotted time, why should an elected representative. Make your point and sit down.

    The boards.ie equivalent would be allowing everyone to lock threads they don't like.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,075 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Many of the people complaining about restrictive abortion laws in the US, dont realise that abortion is as if not more restricted here in almost all EU countries as it is in most US states.




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 13,583 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    If as some have read into the decision that 'stare decisis' no longer will be used in US Jurisprudence, well, welcome to no guns in blue states (since, yinno, no stare decisis, states can do what they want), Heller vs. DC nope, etc etc. It's a disaster of a decision in so many ways.



This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement