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New patio is falling towards house..

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,671 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    I don't think anyone can work out the fall from the pictures except that its the wrong way in the area in front of the doors.

    Wake me up when it's all over.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,537 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    He's pulled up majority of offending area now and has put a fall in the sand below which will move water away from house. He intends to then have a fall to the side of the house where any water that doesn't drain will hit some aco like drains.

    All patio touching house will have aco drain installed between house and patio.I insisted on this being done as I feel you can never have enough drainage...

    I'm sure there are better ways of doing everything but I'm happy with the acceptance that the problem needed to be resolved.

    Compared to the alternatives this must be the best outcome.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,649 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Without taking up the whole this that sounds like a good option. IMHO here you have a hard fixed point, i.e. the back door, that must be the highest point and you fall runs from there. Given that'd mean lifting everything a localized fall sounds like the best option. On the aco drains, where are they draining to?

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    OK well things took a turn for the worst this morning. Aco drains being kicked etc. Very hostile.

    Since it rained and there was no sign of problems on the remaining slabs the conversation switched to "there would have been no problems with the others". I find myself in a really nasty place.

    It's the driest season at the moment - even Saturday where it rained all day was not a huge amount quantity wise.

    One orange rainfall and its a completely different story.

    I'm really shook.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I'd ask for a full refund at this stage.

    No harm if you can get a discreet video of them kicking stuff or being hostile.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    If I felt there was even the remotest chance that would work I would. It's more likely to antagonize something further.

    In the end it's his fault but he's saying that even with this fault it wouldnt have been a problem and a hose pipe is always going to cause pooling...

    With the anger that was there arguing wasn't going to end well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,649 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Look in terms of being shook, I understand where you are coming from but always remember at the end of the day yer not looking at a chart and a doctor telling you there's nothing they can do.

    Secondly, it's on sand! Imagine if it was concreted in!?!

    At this stage I'd get rid of him, getting what you can out of him by however means and do it yourself. It's not rocket science. If I can do it, trust me it's not that hard.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    In the grand scheme of things everything looks rather trivial.

    The only thing I will get out of him is what he is doing right now, remedying it. After his melt down he has continued working - went for lunch and came back. He did say he has never left a job unfinished...

    While its absolutely shocking form to raise your voice at a customer in their own backgarden, blame them for having to fix a problem they created and stomping around kicking stuff, if I have to tolerate it for a few more days I will. I'll chalk it up to experience...



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,913 ✭✭✭✭josip


    If you think an orange rainfall would cause problems, can you do the garden hose thing again to check?

    Or is that not really a runner mid-job?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    Until they have the slabs down again its hard to test as water will roll off .. I did check the new levels on the 2x4s they are using as guides and there is definitely a fall away from the house now at both doors.

    Even if the water pooled elsewhere , i wouldnt care at this stage. providing its not outside my doors!



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭eusap


    Ask a farmer a hose pipe delivers no where near the amount of water a good rain shower would bring, so if it puddled with a hose it would flood with the rain



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    Yes. Especially over an area that was primarily paved.

    1) lowest point of the patio was the back door.

    2) Worst drainage of the patio was the backdoor.

    3) Place most likely to let water into the house --- backdoor.



  • Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Lesson learned here is stage payments or deposit only - he had you over a barrel - I’ll be very clear with my guy when he does my patio later this summer - this was likely 1 weeks work or less so with credit terms and company cash there was no need for this guy to have demanded so much of the budget up front - I reckon this is his MO and he’s done it time and time again I’d say.

    Hope whatever fix he’s doing sorts your immediate problem OP- I’m nearly having second thoughts on a patio now and thinking why I didn’t go for just a deck. A patio is such a permanent thing in some ways that it has to be done right



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,671 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    But a deck is such an impermanent pain in the backside.

    Wake me up when it's all over.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,915 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    The fall towards the house is evident against the small wall against the patio. Unless that entire wall isn't level. The fall of the entire patio is actually down towards the house. Which has obviously resulted in the puddle. So yes, it looks pretty easy to spot even without a spirit level by eye. Which is why I originally thought the entire job was shoddy tbh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18 tonium22


    Fair play to John Wayne for turning up anyway.so now he's shouting and kicking stuff around. .

    It would have been easier on himself to rip it all up and start over. Set correct **** levels. Dig whatever.

    He's shiteing around with complicated fuckin tunnels and gravity what not . No wonder he's stressed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,767 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran


    On a side note we had a company in a few months ago installing a composite door, we paid 50% up front and they did a terrible job so we wouldn’t release the final payment till they sorted it. After 3 bothched repair jobs they had to order a new door which was fitted crap again, we got so fed up with the stress and hassle and rows we just paid them the money to be done with it all. Sometimes the stress isn’t worth it!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    Well they've gone for the day. Seems like he ignored everything we agreed on yesterday. So no aco drainage at wall/door. At least there appears to be a fall now.

    I can always put in aco drain later Main thing is fall is going the right way.

    Lord.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,351 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    I cannot suffer that shouting and spitting the dummy crap. It's a classic bullying tactic to get you to accept something you are not happy with.

    These fellas have thick neck and no shame. You couldn't insult him if you tried. The shouting is all an act.

    I'd tell him gather up his gear and be gone. He has had more than enough of your money.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Still stihl waters 3


    He sounds like a right clown, he had 2 choices, refund or repair, I know from experience any man can get caught out with a mistake or a wrong measurement but when it's seen you've to hold you're hands up and just bite the bullet and do it right, I've redone work that I've made a blunder on, very few lads set out to do a bad job but mistakes can be made as in every job, he had a chance to rectify himself and didn't take it, I'd clear him the first chance you get op



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The thoughts of having to deal with a builder is enough to make me know I'll never build a house. There are mistakes, oversights, changes that can happen but I can't remember the last time I saw something done in this country that didn't have something wrong immediately draw the eye. And it doesn't seem to matter about reputation, I've seen people get recommendations and get ripped off or someone just do a runner, I've seen people who left family members with a torrent of water down an inside wall the first time it rained. Like most things in Ireland it's expensive and you have basically no protection in most cases.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    I'll need to try and talk with him again tomorrow. Fairly sure his frame of mind is now impacting the repair he is doing...



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,651 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Where to begin!

    Firstly as others have mentioned the DPC level is critical. Normally your footpath around the house is laid at 150mm below DPC, so if this guy has laid several inches of hardcore and sand on top of this plus the patio you're in danger of damp entering the house. Drainage channel must be installed at or below DPC along the entire length, dispersing into a storm drain.

    Secondly, if he's laid it on just sand that will simply subside into the hardcore after a few months and the slabs will sink and become uneven, and as others have said it will subside more away from the footpath leaving a trip hazard. It should have been laid in concrete.

    Thirdly, if the rest of the garden is marshy or slopes towards the house no amount of 'flexipipe' (don't even know what this is) laid under the hardcore (if it even was) will serve any purpose whatsoever if it's not connected to a storm drain and even if it was it will block over time and any water will be slow to drain into it anyway.

    Fourthly, no competent person running a company should require anything more than a booking deposit before a job is completed and references to 'big jobs' like Dublin airport should be a red flag.

    IMO OP that whole patio will need to be redone unfortunately, that guy hasn't a clue what he's doing and you'd be better off to tell him to take a hike, and demand some money back or threaten to sue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    Can't disagree with anything you've said.

    What a disaster.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    Had a look at the foot path and measured up 150mm and yeah if that is where the DPC is the slab and aggregate would be above it.

    If I install aco drainage the length of the patio is this sufficient to negate?



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,915 ✭✭✭✭listermint




  • Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yeah and I’ll probably go with the patio in the end but just shows you’re at the mercy of these people



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    There are paintable dpc? Sealers? If this was painted the surround down to the previous pavement this would also stop ingress.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    So update ... They came back , "discussion" ensued. Similar to previous. Disagreeing the problem was a real problem and thinking I was nitpicking. We talked it through a few times.

    In the end we are back on aco drains at the patio edge and relaying some required patio to get a fall which is enough to keep it away from the house and move around the side where it can find another aco drain...

    There will be a concrete slab around the side of the house that will raise above DPC so will put some of this on the area

    Everbuild Black Jack 908 D.P.M. (Damp Proof Membrane), Black, 5 Litre : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

    If I paint this down to the previous footpath it should do the trick. Obviously the slab must fall away from the house there too...



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