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JFK Assassination Autopsy Details Revealed After 55 Years

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    The mistake is known to debunkers, yet they continue to spread the lie due to the 3cm length of the carcano bulllet. Thus, disproving their magic bullet theory.

    As Dr Shaw explained to the Warren Commission, the wound was enlarged from 1.5cm to 3cm and was not caused by a tumbling bullet. The incision and enlargement were performed by Dr Shaw himself. 


     



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,841 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Cheerful, its based on the wound Connally had on his back until the day he died.

    You're also getting confused between inches and cm



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,236 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Yea, he's not so good with the ol' units of measurement there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    Can you and your merry band of debunkers not see that you continuously embarrass yourselves, only to embarrass yourselves again and again without even noticing it? This last part of the sentence is the most irritating for me because I have to explain it over and over again. Reading the nonsense you post is entertaining. Quite impressive, but also cringe-inducing mental gymnastics. 


    This is the image you uploaded. According to both you and the debunkers, the magic bullet struck Connelly's back as it tumbled sideways. 


    Have you read the information on your diagram about the Entry wound?

    1.25 inches is 3.175 centimeters

    A 3cm wound corresponds to the length of the Carcano bullet. The people you believe to be reliable sources regarding the Kennedy assassination have claimed for decades that the wound in Connelly's back is the result of a tumbling bullet 3cm in length striking him.

    They are wrong, and despite this, you persist in telling lies. 

    "Before surgery, the wound measured 1.5 cm. The bullet did not leave a 3-cm wound. Yesterday I showed you that Dr. Shaw (Connelly surgeon) had increased the size of the wound from 1.5 cm to 3 cm. 

    When dealing with debunkers, you are likely to encounter problems such as these, as they fail to identify errors, omissions, and flaws in the official narratives. This three-centimeter wound was used by debunkers as proof that there was a tumbling bullet, but they know most people will not bother to review the details of Dr Shaw's testimony to the Warren Commission, so they continue to fabricate it for gullible individuals. 

    Dr Shaw testimony. Please read the first and second sentence.,. 





     



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,841 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    This is one of 3 descriptions made by Shaw. First one was on the day in 1963 - "approximately three cm in its longest diameter". Then he told the Warren Commission on March 23, 1964 it was 1.5cm and then on April 21, 1964 he repeated the 3cm description.

    Goodf read here, basically, Shaw made a few mistakes. Including telling the press that the bullet was still in Connallys leg.

    https://jfk.boards.net/thread/192/incredible-wounds-governor-connally

    Following the testimony on March 23, 1964, Specter and Shaw had a conversation off the record then went back on the record and discussed whether a tumbling bullet struck Governor Connally in the back. Shaw mistakenly associated an elliptical wound with a bullet, which had struck something else. This testimony strongly suggests that Doctor Shaw and the authorities reached a compromise. In particular the authorities would forgive doctoring his medical reports in exchange for capitulation to tolerate the SBT.


    So theory then, if its wasn't the same bullet, where did it come from and how did it hit Connally without JFK?

    Ignoring mountains of evidence in favour of focusing on tiny disputed details is garden variety.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    Having doubled down and now made false accusations against DR Shaw, he could not tell his ass from his elbow.. After accusing me of getting the measurements incorrect, you do not see that I am correct after reading an article on the internet???

    It is entirely the responsibility of the people you look up to for getting that information incorrect. They have been misleading you for a significant period of time. The wound was 1.5cm before surgery, but during surgery, Dr Shaw made an incision and it was widened to 3cm. The wound was not caused by a tumbling bullet. Additionally, the hole in Connelly's jacket and the shirt was 1.5 cm wide.

    This allegation should be withdrawn or else a record or upload should be provided proving that Dr Shaw indicated the wound was 3 cm before surgery? Don't: we need to simply dismiss everything you have said regarding Kennedy's assassination. You are hurting this doctor's good name. 

     The debunkers want the entry wound to measure 3cm so hard because it corresponds to the length of the Carcano bullet tumbling sideways.

    Specter showed a 3 cm wound after surgery. The doctor corrected him here. 


    According to your article. Intentionally misleading the debunkers on here and it is not surprising they fall for it. In fact, the author admits that Dr. Shaw repeated the same description of the wound on April 21, 1964. You stated that Dr. Shaw gave different sizes for the entry wound in 1963 and 1964, which is incorrect. 

    In the text, describes what Dr Shaw said on March 23, 1963, "Stop misleading people.".  



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,841 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Quote mining. Again.

    Shaw gave 3 different descriptions and admitted that his varying opinions were influenced by Connally saying he was hit by a different bullet to JFK. Shaw also said it could have been a tumbling bullet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    It has been repeatedly demonstrated that you have failed to provide evidence. Despite attaching a link to a website that contradicts everything you stated, you continue to claim that Dr Shaw gave three different descriptions of the entry wound. This is a deliberate lie since I emphasized what the person had said about Shaw's testimony concerning the entry wound in April 1964, and they claimed Shaw reiterated the same description of the entry wound as he had provided during the Warren Commission hearing. Having been caught in a lie, you were too cowardly to correct, if you had corrected it, there would have been no problem at all, because no one is perfect. "Perhaps you have been ignorant of the fact that the Kennedy debunkers misled you, but continuing to repeat that just shows bad faith!!

    You would quote it to the hilt if Dr Shaw had described a bullet entry wound measuring 3cm in length. at different times. it has been established that this information does not exist, since you have not provided a single shrewd piece of evidence in support of this claim.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,841 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    If you read any books about this or had any knowledge beyond a quick Google and a convenient quote you'd know about this. But you demonstrate every day that you dont have any real interest in really leearning about anything.

    Gerald Posner interviewed Shaw in 1992. Maybe start there. Thats where the info comes from, not some random website that parrots the same views. But you know, from a an actual interview in an actual book that takes hours to read.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    I am reasonably certain that if this was sincere, you would screenshot the text and show where Dr Shaw reported the bullet entry wound was 3 cm wide. It was all in your head all along, and still lying unashamedly. This is the fourth time I asked you to be honest and you cannot help yourself. The worst part is you posted a website disputing the accuracy of your own statement of fact regarding Dr Shaw's testimony in 1964, so why would I believe you? The debunkers do not know any better and cannot perceive where you lied within your post, their eyes are always closed. Let us examine what you said and the website you linked to. 

    Dr Shaw's testimony on April 21, 1964, according to Nal

    The website does not support ridiculous nonsense in any way. The same 1.5 cm wound was described by Shaw in 1963 and 1964 but you lied about it.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    In which book does Dr Shaw allegedly state this? I can inspect that book. It would be best to admit your mistake now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,841 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    I literally said above he described it as a 1.5mm wound, its in the screenshot you posted! lol.

    "Then he told the Warren Commission on March 23, 1964 it was 1.5cm". Yep he said it.

    So youre sticking to this tiny and disputed detail then? In the face of:

    • Oswalds gun being found on the 6th floor with his finger prints on it
    • A man matching Oswalds description seen shooting from the 6th floor
    • Oswald being the only person to be on the 6th floor at the time of the shooting
    • Oswald lying about being in the lunchroom
    • Oswald fleeing and shooting a policeman
    • Not a single speck of any bullets/bullet fragments/bullet shells other than those from Oswalds gun were discovered anywhere in Dealey Plaza, the limousine, the TSBD, Parkland Hospital or in the victims.
    • Both JFK and Connally clearly reacting at the same time to being hit

    The book is called The Posner Files - Case Closed and Killing the Dream, which you wont read because you dont read books.

    And if you really want to know more about Shaws opinions, which at times were contradictory, from page 12 here. Basically he was influenced by Connally thinking he was hit by a different bullet.

    https://www.academia.edu/38392226/Deprecated_The_Not_So_Magic_Bullet_pdf_see_the_new_version_below_



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    All throughout your analysis, you noted that Dr Shaw provided confusing testimony regarding the size of the wound on Connelly's back. The description of Connelly's wound was questioned.

    I am aware of the problem and still experiencing it with you - the wound on the back was always 1.5 cm, but the debunkers ignore the testimony that Dr Shaw enlarged the wound to 3 cm on the operating table.

    Debunkers dislike the fact that the wound was only 1.5 cm before surgery as it contradicts everything they believe about the magic bullet. They simply pretend in their book that Oswald fired a rifle and struck two men with only one bullet, so they put a 3cm wound in it to prove their nonsensical theory.

    Based on the testimony and medical evidence, it is more likely that Kennedy and Connelly were hit by two separate bullets that arrived not far apart in time, went downward from a height position, and struck nose on. If there were more than three bullets, it is certain there was a second shooter or a third in the vicinity.

    Unfortunately, tomorrow or later this week I will have time to review the steps involved in the Oswald connection. Oswald's involvement does not negate the possibility of other shooters in Dallas firing from their own positions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    There is an obvious reason why they want the 1.2 inch wound to be the same size as the Carcano bullet

    The extry wound was 1.5 cm always and can't have that size. This wound must be at least 3 cm wide for the tumbling bullet theory to work.

    In order to circumvent this problem, debunkers use the size of the wound after surgery. Providing false information.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,841 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    You're the one claiming there were other shooters so Ill await your evidence.

    Spoiler alert - There isnt any. Case closed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    I am not one of the individuals character assassinating Dr Shaw and lying to sell books.

    Connelly had an entry wound of 1.5cm when he was brought into surgery, unclothed and turned. He repeated the 1.5 cm claim repeatedly, while you lied that he gave different sizes for the entry wounds. The website even stated that, but then went on here and lied about what the website stated concerning the Shaw Testimony in April 1964. Fooling no one but your friends here.

    When debunkers are lying about something that can be verified easily, what else are they lying about? Conspiracy theories are not in your headspace, but they exist for reasons like this one!



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,486 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    "But there is never any explanation as to the how, what or why of any of these theories"

    ok. 🙄

    For example, you have never heard the 'how what or why' of the JFK conspiracy ????

    REALLY !??

    Cia involvement? Mafia involvement? Cubans ?

    They are some of the theories.

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,486 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    Cant see the wood for the trees, or just pretending to be clueless??

    The Mafia wanted JFK dead because his brother as US Att General and his team were coming down hard on mafia bosses and their control of unions and racketeering...

    Thats the Who/Why

    So thats why the Mafia were suspected, but no , it was Lee H Oswald.

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    OK. Is there any evidence that proves, or suggests, "the mafia" were involved?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,486 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    "Conspiracy theorists have long surmised the mafia was involved in the assassination due to the enmity created when JFK and his brother Robert F. Kennedy began a campaign to stop mob influence on the Teamsters labor union. When JFK was elected president in 1960, he appointed Robert as attorney general. In his new role, Robert began a very public attack on organized crime, in particular going after Jimmy Hoffa, who had been elected leader of the Teamsters union in 1957. At that time the union controlled the majority of commercial trucking in the United States. Hoffa was known to consort with major mafia bosses, the mob having already corrupted many labor unions in large cities."

    "As a senator, Robert pursued Hoffa over racketeering charges, though no conviction was brought against the Teamster leader. On becoming attorney general, Robert went so far as to form a “Get Hoffa” squad to aid his quest, ultimately succeeding in bringing him to justice. In 1964 Hoffa was convicted of attempted bribery of a grand juror and sentenced to eight years in prison. But it was the earlier actions of the Kennedys that adds fuel to the assassination theory involving the mob.

    When JFK was unsuccessful in overthrowing Cuban leader Fidel Castro in 1961, mafia-controlled casinos on the island remained shut down, angering American crime family bosses who had invested heavily to create a tourist destination to rival Las Vegas. Theorists suggest the mafia and Hoffa conspired to kill the president as an act of retribution."

    "According to the 1994 book written by attorney Frank Ragano, who represented Hoffa, the teamster leader asked mob bosses Santos Trafficante and Carlos Marcello to arrange the assassination of President Kennedy. Ragano also claims that on the day the president was killed, he joined Trafficante in a toast. Ragano recalls a dying Trafficante confessing in 1987 to having a role in the killing, though he says the mob boss eventually came to regret not killing Robert instead of his brother."


    is that enough ?

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    That's not really evidence, is it? It's hearsay at best.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,841 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    RFK continued in the same role for a year after JFK was killed. Why didnt "they" kill him then?

    Why didnt "they" kill John McClellan instead though? He was the head guy in all those investigations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    According to Howard Hunt. Who was primarily in charge of the Watergate plumbers and carried out many covert operations for the Nixon administration and CIA intelligence officer.

     This was an act of the CIA, and there were many factors behind it, including the failure of the Bay of Pigs, Kennedy's desire to leave Vietnam, and another reason mentioned by Hunt Lawyer, who claimed that Kennedy was planning to reveal UFO secrets to the Soviets, and then plan to do a Moon mission together.

    Hunt stated that the planned murder of Kennedy in Miami did not take place. Among the people, Hunt named were many in the CIA and Cuban freedom fighters who were hostile to Castro. 

    Based on Hunt's explanation, the attack was committed by a rogue CIA/ Castro anti-Castro unit 



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    Hunt doesn't mention the Mafia involvement. These are separate theories.

    According to Hunt, these two guys organized the hit. 

    David Atlee Phillips

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Atlee_Phillips

     Cord Meyer 

    Some of the alleged hitmen or crew in Dallas who committed the crime. 

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_King_Harvey



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Hunt doesn't mention the Mafia involvement. These are separate theories.


    So it's just a bunch of random things which pop into conspiracy theorists heads, with no actual evidence of anything, and just mention a few disconnected shady sounding groups and hope that nobody queries things too much.

    After 60 years it should have been possible to nail down one of the multiple theories and find some evidence for at least one of them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,486 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    😂🤣🤣🤣🤣

    Yes, of course.

    The evidence is coming....

    (Perdue reference - Someones idea , that led to an investigation, that leads to evidence)

    " the United States House Select Committee on Assassinations concluded that a conspiracy had been involved in the President’s murder but couldn’t be any more specific than that."


    "Document 32149267 seems to directly contradict the findings of the Warren Commission with regards to Jack Ruby. The document places Ruby at the scene of JFK’s assassination and not five blocks away, it states:

    And to contradict the Warren commissions finding that

    "looked into Ruby’s whereabouts when Kennedy himself was killed. They concluded he was five blocks away and that Oswald was the only person responsible for Kennedy’s assassination. There was no wider conspiracy."


    around 55,000 documents have been made available for public consumption, the last batch being released in April 2018. It will take many years for experts and historians to reveal all the secrets hidden within these documents. However, in the short time, they have been in the public forum some big revelations have already been discovered.

    “Recently…a Group Manager in the Dallas Intelligence Division, received information from a confidential informant that might be helpful in the investigation of the Kennedy assassination. The informant stated that on the morning of the assassination, Ruby contacted him and asked if he would ‘like to watch the fireworks.’ He was with Jack Ruby and standing at the corner of the Postal Annex Building facing the Texas School Book Depository Building, at the time of the shooting.”

    So the evidence is coming lads.... but carry on doubting .......

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,841 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    "According to Hunt's widow and other children, the two sons took advantage of Hunt's loss of lucidity by coaching and exploiting him for financial gain and furthermore falsified accounts of Hunt's supposed confession"

    Strong evidence there....



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