Fall of the Catholic Church

How so? I mean - even if the there are increases (and I'm not entirely convinced that there are) what evidence is there that this is linked to an alleged decline of religion in Western nations?

Well, religion typically gives you a sense of community. A sense of community appears to be very important to humans. In fact the one thing that blue zones seem to have in common is community. I think there's no doubt that believing also provides a comfort and can help during challenging times. There's also a sense of purpose to being religious.

Despite generally living in prosperous times in the west, we're seeing more unhappy young people.

Religious is foundational and cohesive. If you pull that rug out from under society, you better have something to replace it with.

An organisation preaching love, tolerance, respect, responsibility yet exuding little of those qualities themselves… an organisation with a big rule book they demand everyone else is in adherence to yet they themselves fail time and time again…to live up to and adhere to the standards they set for everyone else. They’ve been found out. When i went as a kid Sunday mass was packed, 5 or 6 masses on Sunday, including the evening one… now 2… 10.00 & 11.30… people there from 3 to 93… now mostly an older demographic with younger people mostly of different communities.

my parents tell me that about a quarter of the congregation at a Sunday mass at their church now are Polish, Brazilian and other assorted communities and nationalities… back in the ‘90’s if for 11.00 mass you turned up any later then 10.50 you were standing ..seats galore now..

a slight upsurge now in numbers with Eastern Europeans, African people coming to the area and the immigration led population surge… but numbers are way down… when compared to 20 years ago…2 priests instead of the old 4…and half the masses…

the mishandling of child sex abuse, the denial, cover ups as well as a more enlightened and less fearful younger generations showing you can lead a good life and be a good person without getting involved in that class A hokey and hypocritical shower whom demand standards of others often what which they are often shown as being unwilling to live up to themselves…

I am glad the CC is losing its once all powerful grip on everything that moved in this country. Let those who wish to worship go ahead, but don't ask me to help pay for anything involving CC ever thank you.

I enjoyed reading this about the mahoosive gaff for sale in Killiney lived in by the master of Christian compassion and love Dr. JC McQuaid. Living in a mansion while he objected to the mother and baby scheme and people were hungry post war and dying of TB outside his glorious gate. Guessing that the secretaries mentioned were obsequious men, and the skivvies and cleaners were women.

"At Ashurst, McQuaid found sanctuary, as well as a space to host meetings with key players in the affairs of State. There was room in the house for his chaplain, secretaries and members of the order of nuns who ran the household. His driver lived in the gate lodge. A keen astronomer, he added the belfry tower, which today offers commanding views of Killiney Bay. It is said he suggested he liked to ascend to be closer to God, but he was also fond of shooting, and would aim his .22 rifle at encroaching magpies."

https://www.sherryfitz.ie/buy/house/dublin/killiney/ashurst-military-road

I'm not sure how being part of religious hierarchy or govt absolves either party.

There's been lots of cases of abuse in clubs. Hence the controls they all needed to put in place. A lot of kids are dropped in clubs and have no wish to be there either. I'm not equating any of that with religion either.

Perhaps there are plenty of things that can, but notably there is nothing that has.

There is nothing other than religious services that brought entire communities, young and old, to the one place, once a week.

They are still there which was the point.

Lots of people don't go to school in their local area. Its not special.

Atheism isn't an alternative to religion, or a substitute for religion. It's complete freedom from religion.

Think of it like vegetarianism. Some vegetarians eat meat substitutes, things like Linda McCartney burgers that look and feel a lot like meat. They occupy the place on your dinnerplate where the pork chop would usually be.

Lots of other vegetarians just don't eat meat. No need to replace it with something that looks a lot like meat, they just eat more from the other food groups. Their dinner plate might not look like a meateater's, and to a meateater it might look empty and unfulfilling. That's because the meateater can't imagine a dinner without meat, it's not because the vegetarian isn't eating well.

Atheism isn't a 'looks like religion, tastes like religion' alternative to religion. It's just.... no religion.