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Free DAB radio

2

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭Annascaul


    I think there are similar examples like this in Europe. In Austria, the national broadcaster, the ORF is blocking DAB+ as well, fearing competition. However unlike Ireland, in Austria, some private operators are pushing DAB+ a bit as well, not very successfully so far, but way more successfully than Ireland. I think the influence is also there from Germany, many DAB+ stations from Germany are spilling over into Austria, plus all new cars have DAB+ radios as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭kazoo106


    With the absense of RTE on 12C - Time for the BBC and the other 2 MUXes to lift the 27db restriction going south, and allow all 2kW to filter down the east coast, as opposed to the miserable 5 watts that still manages to get as far as Dunleer today.

    Then perhaps the "establishment" and the "sheep" can learn what DAB actually is



  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭Annascaul



    If the British / Northern Irish signal gets all the way to Dunleer, you've got a good radio. I normally don't get that, south of Dundalk the signal stops.

    FMSCAN.org lists the following DAB stations for Dublin? - are they all still on air?


    5BIRL2E999 Radio

    BKLR Radio

    Carlow FM

    Club FM

    Coast

    Coast Classic

    Coast Dance

    Cyber Hits

    Cyber Rock

    DUBLIN'S ABC

    Dundalk FM

    ENERGY

    Kiss 106

    Non Stop 90s

    OpenTempo

    Polish Radio IRL

    Pulse

    Sovereign 1494

    Storm North East

    Storm OldSkool

    Telstar 80s

    Tomorrow Radio

    United DJs

    Wild Country

    Zenith Rock(1)

    Ambition Radio

    Angel Vintage

    BKLR Radio

    Black Culture

    BlitzKids Essex

    CLUB DAB

    Eruption Radio

    Fire Radio

    Flex UK

    FRESH 87

    Gorgeous Radio

    JuiceRadio.Net

    Kiss DAB

    Kream DAB

    LondonMusicRadio

    Polish Radio IRL

    Purveyors Radio

    ReleaseRadio

    Sami Swoi Radio

    Saor Raidio

    Scotlands Castle

    Select Radio

    Shine 879

    Spektrum Radio

    Tomorrow Radio

    Trans Radio

    Traveller

    UnityDAB

    Wild Country(1)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 366 ✭✭Dipole Keith


    Look at the list of stations there, who in their right mind would have any interest in that choice, it’s very poor to say the least . Mostly English stations, I wonder do the operators of these stations realise how poor the DAB signals are here & them paying for it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭kazoo106


    Yeah - there seems to be a drastic difference with different car radios - ones with the shark-fin antenna seem to do a lot better than the inbuilt window ones. And yes - they will all scan on the main street in Dunleer - but it has Line of sight to Camlough there from roof levels



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,592 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    A new aerial array won't be free, so that isn't going to happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭Annascaul


    I'd say, it looks more like a trial service, than something regular.



  • Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭kazoo106


    The fact that no one on here and indeed that people in Dubin are going to FMSCAN.org to see whats on air says it all to me about the complete disinterest in DAB in this country. The above MUX does fine, all the way from the Leopardstown junction on the M50 - the whole way to Junction 5 on the M1 (Lusk) - it comes in again around Junction 6 for a bit, gone completelely around Drogheda and then is perfect again from Junction 11 Monasterboice to 19 Ravensdale - Goes again for about 2km and comes back in at J20 and good to A1 junction at Dromore Co. Down



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I actually use fmscan.org a lot. I think the problem is as long as the choice is so limited in Ireland, DAB+ won't catch any interest.

    The signal of this mux in Dublin is actually very weak and barely makes it out into the countryside. And what people are used to like the RTE or major commercial stations are missing. That's not the best situation if one wants to introduce a new technology.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Franko87


    I wonder how you know this?

    Have you inside information or are you just making your own assumptions on the issue?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,195 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭California Dreamer


    Is DAB licensed in Ireland? No.

    Are they illegally broadcasting? Yes.

    So it’s just a pirate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,195 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    not just a pirate, a special pirate.

    set up by an Entrepreneur!

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Franko87


    Special pirate? that is a strange way of putting it! though I don't see how it's particularly special.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It’s an irrelevance just like digital radio in Ireland.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Franko87




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Whatever way you cut it DAB is a no goer here, that ship has sailed. The Radio stations here have no interest and that’s not just my opinion!



  • Registered Users Posts: 44 Dom the chemist


    It's not just DAB, radio as a whole apart from some of the legecy big beast current affairs shows is dead in this country. Take the recent developments of the number of weekend 2fm djs who departed without any announcement which attracted less than 5 posts here. If that happened to weekend djs over on BBC radio 1, there'd be a busy 30 page thread going on over on digital spy forums right now. Look at Mike Maloneys recent vanity project internet station, even if it was on FM, it wouldn't have had any listeners. I'm an anorak but I except that radio is dead in this country. Its a little more vibrant in the UK. but that's just because there's more money for vanity projects, a bigger population and a well funded public service broadcaster who know what their purpose is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭kazoo106


    So (and I do not disagree) who killed it?

    I have my own opinions on that



  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Franko87


    You believe Irish services have no interest in DAB. The commercial services (big boys ) I Agree however what about the smaller operators that are shafted every year by the BAI and allowed only a temp license and expected to cough up balls of cash to do it. What about the around 40 license applications each year submitted to the BAI ..All potential services if given the option to broadcast on DAB. Oh wait...the regulatory framework is not there.. so sorry... But we're looking into it... yeah we are We promise !!! while we're on it's my opinion topic. Here is mine. I do not believe DAB is dead. Late to race yes not dead. DAB here has been suppressed for absolute fear of it destroying the big boys club and it would of if it was given the go-ahead.

    look at the UK... DAB is Thriving ..why is this though. partly because Ofcom embraced change and they have a free enterprise policy (sink or swim)

    Over here we have a closed shop policy. There lies the problem.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    DAB+ will never be really dead, as long as there is an EU law that every new car will have to come with a DAB+ radio. This also applies to Ireland. So the radios are there, there is just no or not much boradcasting going on in Ireland. Also other EU countries have gone very far by now so there won't be any turning back from DAB+.

    What I've noticed is that at least in Dublin, some popular FM stations are back on DAB, like Radio Nova, Today FM, Newstalk, Q102 and Spin 103.8, also Radio Sunshine and LMFM I was able to log on DAB.

    However the transmitter is only very weak, the signal doesn't travel much outside of Dublin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭kazoo106


    And these stations have audio? yes or no?

    And where did you hear them, was this in Donnybrook?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭Charles Slane


    What frequency is the mux on that's carrying these stations?



  • Registered Users Posts: 44 Dom the chemist


    That's the IBI/RTE trial from a few years ago (that got nowhere) which carried all 25 IBI stations and rte stations on low power on dab+ from the Donnybrook campus. Either someone forgot to fully shut it down or RTE fire it on the odd time to get anorks excited. I know for a fact that after 252 closed in 2002, RTE would fire on the transmitters randomly to see how many excited anoraks would phone up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I don't know the frequency, but it seems it's the Mux 5B.

    However I don't know how accurate the information is. I've read it on the FMSCAN.org website.



  • Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭kazoo106


    Again - lets base fact on what you hear yourselves rather than whats listed on websites



  • Registered Users Posts: 8 GFrancy4stir


    The only glimmer of hope I see is the precedent in the UK where SSDAB is being rolled out. I would imagine if a trial SSDAB covering an Irish City (or portion of a City) was allowed to operate there would be sufficient interest to sustain a low-power MUX.


    Factors for success:

    A dedicated entity is licenced to build and run the MUX. MUXco could be a conglomeration of broadcasters with no controlling shares. There is precedent for this in the Mobile phone space where facilities are shared between competing operators

    Capital cost is amortised and split between stations carried on the MUX.

    DAB technology has advanced to DAB+ and more effective codecs enabling better perceived quality at lower bit rates. The technology has evolved from costly bespoke hardware and firmware to the ability to generate ensembles on consumer-grade CPU hardware, costs such as RF equipment, filters, and antennae are reduced in cost due to the lower-power operation and economies of scale as SSDAB takes off.

    This would open the platform to existing operators, new operators (hyper-local broadcasting, local information services, niche stations) and others such as Oireachtas radio, traffic, event stations etc.


    Dose of reality:

    This could happen if we had a half decent regulator worthy of the name who wasn't hopelessly captured by the industry, and so controlling it actually FUNDS the very representative body that should be vocally challenging the comfortable status quo. The regulator balls things up wherever possible with lengthy application processes, massive carriage costs. red tape etc etc

    As evidenced by practically every commercially licenced operator having radically changed operationally from their licence undertakings with ZERO consultation with the public (on whose behalf they allegedly operate).

    When can anyone remember a new commercial radio licence being advertised in Ireland?

    Post edited by GFrancy4stir on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,936 ✭✭✭JDxtra


    The FreeDAB signal in Dublin has improved greatly over recent weeks.

    However there is one issue that needs attention. Even when listening at home, the MUX (all stations) drops every 10 or 15 minutes. It only lasts a few seconds but as a listener it’s annoying. This will prevent service growth.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭SPDUB


    Evidently not enough given that a fair section of Dublin can't even get a whisper of it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,246 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Late to the party on this but there's large swathes across our national road networks in which data connections are awful or non existent and you're constantly losing your connection.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    There is no such thing as "late to the party" as an excuse not to introduce DAB / DAB+ in Ireland.

    Remember, many EU countries are just starting their role out. Countries like France for instance, are only gradually planning to role out their Metropolitain 1 and 2 Muxes across the country. Currently only in Paris a few other places, and in the Autoroute down to Marseille, but by 2030 all across France.

    The thing is, DAB+ will be the standard in the EU, the endless Irish "too late to the party lamenting" or "internet is the better choice" simply won't work in the long run.

    Analogue radio won't survive in the digital world, the cost of transmission is higher, also the customer will expect more and more choice in the future, plus financial pressure on public broadcasters will be part of life for the next 5 to 10 years. RTE is probably worse of financially than the BBC, but overall the situation is similar in many countries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,246 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Late to the party referred to me being late to that particular point of the wider discussion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,220 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    I've found RTÉ Radio 1 to be unlistenable on my evening commute in the last few weeks due to constant rebuffering. So I'm back to a good old FM radio instead, incidentally the same one I used to use for DAB.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 915 ✭✭✭stuff.hunter


    its a really shame that there is no push for DAB+ in here, its not just about music or talkshows but signal can carry much more like traffic info etc. I love driving up the north as my car radio comes to life, multiple DAB stations plus something called TMC which works in most of European countries but not in Ireland ... we're really in dark ages still



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    It's called resistance to change. In all fairness, in Dublin there is quite a bit of choice on FM, way more than similar size UK cities, however, in the Irish countryside FM radio offers very little choice.

    It might take a few years longer but I think at some point Ireland will have DAB / DAB+ as well. Things just take longer.

    Ireland is not alone at this point. Finland has absolutely no DAB, there was only a trial about 10 years ago, and Austria is the "home of the dark ages of the radio" as the national broadcaster called the ORF is strongly opposed to DAB or DAB+ out of fear of losing market share and audience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 889 ✭✭✭byrnefm


    Hi,

    I haven't seen any recent postings about DAB.. are there any broadcasts now in the country? I know FreeDAB was about a few years ago but I could never get it in Donegal. I'm aware RTÉ gave up on it...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,936 ✭✭✭JDxtra


    It has been gone for some time now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭castle2012


    I believe it's returning soon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Just wait for BBC Radio 4 on LW and Talksport and Radio 5 on MW to be gone, and the requirement for more choice on the radio will come up again. DAB will be the answer.

    Its quite possible that there will be a Talksport-Ireland at some time in the future.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,592 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The service already exists in so far as there's streams, content overlay / playout kit for it etc - but it only gets promoted during the Premier League games that they have Irish rights for. They need to assemble a lot more of the Irish rights for their live content before looking to promote it more heavily.

    Handled from Cork, currently anyway

    They would not go on a pirate mux though!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭rogue-entity


    It is very very simple and has been pointed out many times already, the independent licenced stations don't want it - more specifically - they don't want the competition that it would bring.

    The BAI are acutely aware of what DAB is and made a conscious choice not to pursue licencing of multiplex operators. Among the reasons given for the decision are disingenuous at best, so I expect nothing to change; however, streaming online bypasses them and is (I suspect) tolerated because of it's relative obscurity (even today) though that is changing.

    It is trivially easy to setup a DAB multiplex, while the costs for equipment are about 1/3 higher than for FM broadcasting, it's prettymuch swings and roundabouts and not even remotely unaffordable. However, doing it right and not pissing all over sensitive bands requires more attention and care.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭rogue-entity


    RTE were involved in an early trial in the 2000s if my memory serves, and on the conclusion of it, with a staunch no from the ILRs, they repurposed the extra transmitters and extended their multiplex. Unfortunately, it was still hamstrung by the trial condition that prevented them running any forms of advertising or allowing other broadcasters onto their multiplex.

    Streaming is a dead end, the cost-per-listener just doesn't come close to what a broadcast achieves; aside from that, promoting it will ultimately exacerbate the current situation because no station with constrained funding could ever hope to grow and as a final nail in the coffin, once regulation starts to take hold you can expect the Copyright Police to start pressing stations to georestrict access at which point we'll be right back to square one.

    There are at least three individuals on this site alone (including myself) who have interest in running DAB (or DTT) multiplexes on a full-time basis, we're just not allowed to do so legally



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    For God sake man you are stuck in the 00s. It's smartspeakers and smartphones your average Joes are using nowadays for their audio content, not DAB radio sets.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭rogue-entity


    As you said, the commercials have no interest. The smaller stations? I could see a few of them, particularly, folks feel they fill a niche that's unserved by the larger stations as no doubt demonstrated by ~20 stations on a pirate DAB mux operating in pockets of the country.

    We both know the regulatory framework will be submitted, sent back, lost, found again, subjected to public inquiry, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters.

    I'm also honestly amazed that DAB is even thriving in the UK as the UK is itself an absolute fantastic exercise in how not to run a DAB ecosystem, which regrettably is likely to happen here if it ever gets official sanction - what do I mean exactly? - the licences being to public auction so only those who can stump up the price of a house in Shrewsbury will get a licence and to recover the cost they'll squeeze as many stations in as they can - MP2, at 64kbps in mono, yuck (and for a few thousand per month).


    My prediction here is that we're more likely to see something like HD Radio or possibly DRM+ materialise instead, the former has the advantage of backwards compatibility but essentially both would allow the licenced stations to add secondary stations on their existing frequency and thus retain absolute control. If DAB does materialise I could see it being verymuch the same as DTT, with just one monopoly operator and everyone else having to pay the price that comes with that for the privilege (note: this is why streaming is a bad idea in the long run)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭rogue-entity


    You're entitled to you're opinion and, you're technically correct in regards to "smartspeakers and smartphones" but, unfortunately you're not seeing the forest for the trees.

    Broadcasting is a one-to-many medium meaning that a transmitter at a good site (say Three Rock) can reach everyone in view of it and there's no difference in cost if only one person tunes in, or a million tune in. This fact makes FM pretty cheap to reach a wide audience.

    Internet Streaming is a one-to-one medium where each listener gets a feed, streaming servers have finite bandwidth and thus have a fixed listener cap depending on what codec you choose to use, and what bitrate you allow, and bandwidth is not free; most streaming services are still using Shoutcast/Icecast and those don't scale.

    Smartspeakers rely on a third party directory and the most popular of those has not accepted new stations in years, smartphones give you a few more options.


    Broadcasting on FM (or DAB) because it is broadcasting, is still the cheapest option available to reach a large number of listeners. The risk is that if you're a community station or other small-scale operator, streaming becomes unaffordable for you past a certain point that you'd never hit were you transmitting on FM/DAB. A situation where only he who has the deepest of pockets has a voice is unacceptable to me.

    Lastly, if you live out of reach of a good mobile data signal (nevermind DSL), then no smartspeaker or smartphone will replace your FM or DAB radio



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,185 ✭✭✭Declan A Walsh


    @rogue-entity - What I find interesting is that you are replying to a tonne of posts from last year with the majority over a year!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    The problem for all the DAB deniers in Ireland that DAB is very much an EU decision. Every new car sold in the EU has it, also in Brexit UK. The only thing you would get is that the radio on DAB stays silent once one is in Ireland. But why not make use of the options DAB poses? At least RTE understood that their LW transmitter would no longer have any real numbers of listeners. However that one took an awful long time to get into the minds of RTE decision makers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭ITV2




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What's this "DAB deniers" nonsense? Car radios with DAB also receive FM. Your average punter in Ireland doesn't know/care what bands of the radio spectrum their radio can receive as long as they can hear the death notices at 1pm.



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