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Moon Knight - Disney+ (***Spoilers***)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    You Disney Star Wars is knocking it out of the park. I said it isn’t because the majority has been bad. You agree the majority is bad? So how is this out of the park?

    Sure up the the target range of Marvel projects so that kids can’t watch. That isn’t greedy at all.

    I would love to know what you think would be creative than what marvel is doing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,856 ✭✭✭irishguitarlad


    I said recently with regards to Star Wars. I am referring to Marvel not me being greedy as they make the series fit in to a certain age ranking so they can maximise profits over artístic integrity. Stop being so formulaic and having a template for every series/movie ie the combat, final battle, overuse of effects, only 6 episodes per series. Anyways, I'm out as I've said what I wanted to say about Moon Knight. Have a good evening



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    I know you were saying Marvel is greedy and I said in response that you are being greedy because you want to up the target range so kids can’t watch these. That is greed.

    And making something “adult” doesn’t mean it is more creative. The violence in the Daredevil show isn’t what made it good. That is nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,687 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    You know that the Boston Red Sox can still knock it out of the park etc. after losing a bad game, or even a bad season, right? They come back next season, and the season after that. Like how marvel is knocking it out of the park with Dr. Strange, Spidersmen, Thor, Moon Knight etc. and might not have, with Black Widow etc.

    Konshu can feel your pain about the Sequel Trilogy. Konshu feels all of our pain about the Sequel Trilogy. But you gotta let it go, Konshu isn't going to have anyone killed, least of all Kathleen Kennedy. Mando moved on. Mando carried the Franchise AND Disney+ on his back BOTH. It looked a lot like this actually


    Disney felt your pain, my pain, everyone's pain, as if the force suddenly all at once cried in agony. they learned some things, clearly, and we've turned a page since a while ago. and if BOBF is the main irk (it's 4 stars, from me), I refuse to buy in, they didn't produce Mando S1/S2 over Zoom (filming wrapped days before Pandemic declaration in March 2020), they produced BOBF over Zoom. I have mad respect for the work they accomplished during Covid, especially in a germaphobe state like California. Do you remember experiencing feelings of sadness, depression, anxiety, unwellness etc. during Covid or have a loved one die, etc. etc. well... I'm sure that applies to the creative geniuses at Disney, too. Add to that filming on BOBF ran straight on from Mando s2 - from November 2020 to June 2021. Between their day job... Covid... the 2020 Summer of George Floyd... the 2020 Winter of Donald Trump... the January 6 Insurrection.... can any of us cast the first stone for accusing them of not being able to put out their apex quality of work? Gina Carano was a high profile firing but it should evidence for folks how tense, in general, life had gotten in the subsequent time since Mando wrapped and Covid began. Giancarlo Esposito, similarly, had put people on blast publicly for having disagreements about complying with covid safety (on the set of Breaking Bad).

    I'm confidently assuming that there were a lot of mental health and Family or Medical Leave days taken by any number of staff, same as any other industry at the time. I'm equally confident people on set had a lot of real-world distractions, and there may have been plenty of disagreement between people on those issues. If a posh campy bike gangster doing a twirl before he takes a shot is the biggest consequence of that on the end product, then so be it. /rant.


    The violence in the Daredevil show isn’t what made it good. That is nonsense.

    Except it's part of it, the series didn't pull punches.

    Moon Knight: great, 4 stars, already ran through it twice, the psych ward scenes are still a bit of a mindfuck but it works (Harrow & Marc on the same astral plane at points?) and I think a season 2 works better for him, than his own movie or being plugged into a bigger one. The CGI didn't look that good on my 1080p PC screen, but when watched on 4K they definitely looked much more believable and less like Adobe effects (particularly his CGI suit). There's still always going to be an uncanny valley to a Hippo Lady and a talking bird skull though. This shot in particular, didn't quite make it across the valley:



    Maybe you could edit it down into a movie but it does well the way its structured and I feel like they'd gut too much breathing room to make something like that work. They used the right amount of superpowers I think here, just enough that folks still want more of him right away. I could do with a lot more Mr. Knight myself just clubbing folks (or more banter in the mirror eg. "Psycho Col. Sanders"). The way they transitioned during the fights was thoughtful and cracking, a 3-way choreography with Jake Lockley in the mix will be ... better, I can only assume at this point.


    Best Lead Actor: Oscar Isaac

    Best Supporting Actor: Oscar Isaac

    Everyone did great though, wonderful cast.

    Post edited by Overheal on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    @Overheal

    Why are you posting about people being killed?

    Is that the kind of thing you think is funny?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,687 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    General reference to the ire the internet has expressed toward her. Thanks for ignoring everything else I said though and just deflecting to a response to tone.

    People obviously don't want them killed, they have morals. They will however never stop lamenting the Sequel Trilogy, in particular, putting out propaganda to get the likes of Kathleen Kennedy fired from Star Wars altogether (unlikely) my point is everything that needs to be said about the trilogy has been said, we've moved on, and since moving on, Disney+ has crushed it with the straight to streaming content.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Keep it civil. Move the conversation on.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He's a complex character to fit in in an ensemble, but I definitely don't think Moon Knight is strong enough for a stand alone movie.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭DrZeuss


    I think a better Moon Knight could have gone something like this:

    Episode 1: Similar to what it was, all Steven with gaps/blackouts and a hint of Marc/Moon Knight at the end

    Episode 2: All Marc, filling in some of the gaps/blackouts from EP1 but still leaving a hint with some gaps/blackouts remaining

    Episode 3: Back story to Steven/Marc

    Episode 4: Back story of Harrow/old Moon Knight/Ammit, Konshu/Marc/new Moon Knight

    Episode 5: Balance the souls sea of sand voyage, cannot balance...introduce Jake and fill in the last gaps/blackouts from EP1 (something so important shouldn't be a mid credits drop). The balancing really bothered me when there were hints of Jake, it comes across as sloppy writing to me.

    Episode 6: Full episode of Moon Knight being Moon Knight using all identities to take down Ammit

    Drop the unnecessary Kaiju fight, drop Layla (give her her own show or introduce her if a season 2 happens), or at least drop Layla becoming Tawerets avatar, drop Taweret randomly taking over dead bodies, push Mr Night out to season 2 or maybe a post credit scene, lose the other gods meeting.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,687 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Take away the Ennead, and one of the focal points of his backstory? Jake Lockley killed her dad and getting himself nearly killed in the process is how he met Konshu. She is the backstory.

    I feel like unless Harrow was a protagonist then we don’t really need his life story, he’s our villain and we know plenty about him just from Marc’s experiences and a few cutaways to him. Ethan Hawke played him well. We really didn’t need a backstory either for Thanos etc they just worked

    I don’t think it’s sloppy writing that Marc didn’t let Jake out. He still had little idea where he was. Even if he suspected it was another Alter he and Steven could both guess that alter was darker and more violent than they were already (ep2). It’s really only Marc being judged by the scales anyway. The good of Mark and Steven outweighing the bad of Jake and whoever else. I think if they had resolved the Jake Lockley questions in 6 episodes there would never be a 7th. The way the story unfolds I think is more rewarding, with Konshu “freeing” Marc and Steven but remaining bound with Jake, may make for some interesting deal with the devil shenanigans.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    I watched to episode 5. Havent bothered with 6. Might watch it if i have to kill a few minutes some evening there is nothing on, but this show was a slog.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭DrZeuss


    The Ennead were pointless though, they served zero purpose here. Now if they showed up in the last episode for the Kaiju fight it would have made sense why they were there.

    As for Layla, why did she need to become an avatar too (never mind knowing how to use her abilities instantly, something Steven had problems with earlier with Mr Knight) and also outshining Moon Knight on his own show.

    It just feels like this was not a Moon Knight show at all, due to the lack of Moon Knight on screen.

    Why is it Marc that's only being judged? if Marc doesn't know Jake as the other alter, does that not mean that Jake created Marc akin to Marc creating Steven. It just seems to be convenient to leave Jake out of the balancing part in order to have the reveal later in the credits, that's my take.

    Edit---

    Just to add, I did think Ethan, Oscar and May put in a good performance but the show dropped in quality after episode 1.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,553 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    What with all the gods thought we might see a Thor tie in somewhere with a reference to Gorr.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,687 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I mean to each their own, I thought the Ennead scenes were great, we met Hathors avatar, we saw a neat trial by Gods (not the most judicious or impartial branch of government I've ever seen, quite arrogant really). We got some neat ancient egyption marvel worldbuilding. I get what you mean, about their lack of involvement though clearly the other Gods take gumption with Konshu's 'theatrics' and 'flashy weapons.' They're also non-intervionalists. It's close to as much screen time as say, many Gods got on Clash or Wrath of the Titans. It does confuse us as to where Hippo Lady sits with the Ennead, and her flashy new avatar.

    Steven is an Alter to a dissociative identity disorder. Marc Spector (SPEKTR...) is the main man, it's he who made the pact with Konshu. Ultimately, Marc knows how to use the suit, should know everything that happens with his body but he doesn't, amnesia between alters is a real thing. And Konshu wasn't exactly super helpful to "Worm." The whole scene where Steven and Marc discuss why Steven is Psycho Colonel Sanders, for example, works well, Marc's alter ego and himself coming to grips with how this power should work for his alter.

    Layla, having no personality disorders to speak of, and already knowing intently what Marc is capable of with the power of an Avatar, likely made her transition a lot easier. They already foreshadow her in the series as an effectual and capable fighter/tomb-raider. Her weaponized necklace and the way she stabs that security guard at the black market deal was a nice little foreshadow of her future self and her ability to stabby stab.

    I think what's happening most here then, with why many folks have expressed it's not enough Moon Knight/Action, is because of how they portrayed the DID, blacking out both Marc/Steven and the Audience from action beats to drive it forward in jumps - it puts it front and center that you've been deprived of something as an audience member (but for cause).

    I think there was just the right amount of Moon Knight on screen to leave people wanting more. Konshu's imprisonment from the Ennead is an important story beat, and so is for most heroes, the trope that they do some deep character exploration without leaning on fancy powers or gadgets (Iron Man 3, Spiderman: Homecoming, Raimi's Spiderman 2, Thor: Ragnarok, etc.) and even a lot of really good singleplayer videogames take a similar beat, parts of the story where you are stripped of everything you have earned to prove what you have learned (Half-Life, Breath of the Wild, Tomb Raider, the list is miles long). It helpfully establishes that the protagonist is worthy of the abilities they have been granted by the story, nobody watches a heroes journey that lacks pitfall or sacrifice.

    Why is it Marc that's only being judged? if Marc doesn't know Jake as the other alter, does that not mean that Jake created Marc akin to Marc creating Steven. It just seems to be convenient to leave Jake out of the balancing part in order to have the reveal later in the credits, that's my take.

    I believe from the Mom flashbacks we learn Marc is the primary identity, Jake and Steven are alters/guardian personalities. He made Steven as a child to endure his mothers physical abuse. He apparently concocted Jake Lockley later on in life in relation to him being a mercenary - the partner who "got greedy" while Marc was in a fugue state (Episode 5). Jake Lockley only appears when Marc cannot manage a physical threat seemingly (also true of Steven but for child abuse). The walls between Marc and Steven broke down from his Mothers funeral, which is seemingly when Steven begins to manifest so strongly he starts leading his own life working at a museum gift shop, with Marc so emotionally broken by his grief for over his mom (and her abuse) that he recedes long into the background of the DID. The Season is set up so the viewer initially assumes Steven is the primary, so it may be confusing initially on a first or weekly viewing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭DrZeuss


    The Season is set up so the viewer initially assumes Steven is the primary, so it may be confusing initially on a first or weekly viewing

    This is maybe where I missed out, while I don't know the full lore of Moon Knight, I was aware that Marc was the primary prior to viewing the show. I thoroughly enjoyed the first episode, the show trying to convey DID on the viewer by putting us in the Steven character and his memory gaps but I feel they really could have carried that on with Marc and Jake to really give 3 completely different aspects of a journey/puzzle solve/fight.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,687 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Oh I went in knowing nothing, I know nothing about the character except what little that viral memes had gleaned. I wasn't square on everything that happened on the show when I watched weekly, in my office, with 2 screens and the sunlight blaring; it's when I watched a 2nd time with the missus, as a whole saturday night in 4K that those pieces started to get picked up by myself :p


    Wake me up before you go-go

    Don't leave me hanging on like a yo-yo



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,687 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    What If... Tony knew a different guy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭DrZeuss


    There's one big problem with that....can Moon Knight actually be Moon Knight during the day 😂

    *Actually genuinely thought of that the other day and still not sure if Moon Knight can Moon (K)Day



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    It wouldn't be Moon Day, it would be Sun Knight.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,272 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    Sunday was yesterday.



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  • Posts: 8,385 [Deleted User]


    Can Thor only be Thor on Thursdays?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,687 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I wondered too. But there’s a shot of him after his revival walking outside of that location to talk with and bargain with Konshu before he manipulates the wind to send them flying off to Cairo to catch up to Ammit. This scene happens during the late afternoon at that location (Ammit’s tomb, in the deep desert)


    Khonshu also casts a solar eclipse to signal an audience with the Ennead. That’s in broad daylight but we don’t see Marc use the suit in that situation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭magic_murph


    Well this was absolutely terrible.

    Really didn't have a clue what was going on half the time, seemed like episodes were missing. I only watched it to close it out - didn't enjoy it at all.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "Seemed like episodes were missing" Erm, Stephen... that you ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    I don’t understand why this story confuses so many people.

    It is simple and straight forward.

    And no one is saying what it is that confuses them.

    All I can think is that people are not actually watching it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭DrZeuss


    While not confusing, I thought they missed out on something by not clearing up the missing memory sections. We had Steven with his missed memories, then we had Marc with his missed memories and it hinted that there was a third person but we never got to see that character filling in those missed memories.....in fact not even showing the existence of this third character until the mid credits scene, to me seemed like too big a reveal to drop in such an odd way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭magic_murph


    For me it was too scatter to allow full attention. Ep 1 had some promise but after that it was just terrible.

    Each to their own I guess.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Just finished watching the series for the second time as I thought I was missing something. I thought it was crap the first time I watched it, and yip, I think it’s crap the second time as well. For me the biggest issues are that I don’t care whether the main character(s) succeed/live or not, they aren’t compelling enough to make me care. Also, it is all over the place, it isn’t difficult to follow, because there is little to follow. Overall, I don’t care if there is a second series, I won’t be watching it.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭magic_murph


    Because it is just all over the place - quite a few people have hared this thought.

    Well done you if you were able to stick with it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    The show is widely seen positively both by critics and by viewers so no need for a snarky 'well done' when your opinion is the outlier by struggling with it (an opinion that you're entitled to have even though I don't understand it).



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭magic_murph


    Who rattled your cage. Soo many white knights around these days.

    'Well Done' wasn't snarky but each to their own.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭DrZeuss


    Yep, I'm in agreement with you. In fact I don't think the main character is the main character in the show. It almost feels like Layla is the star, she saves Steven/Moon Knight/Marc on a few occasions, is married to Marc and cheats on him with Steven, gets superpowers and super fighting skills instantly and gets called a superhero by a kid.

    Nothing wrong with Layla having these powers (before someone jumps at me) but they could have called the series after her really. Moon Knight seemed like a side story/side-kick in his own show. Very much like Hawkeye and Loki lately.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    obviously by scattered you meant all over the place - that is what scatters means - but saying other people have said it isn’t an answer.

    How was it all over the place?

    the story was incredibly simple and we were spoon fed everything - it doesn’t take long to realise he has a split personality, or which is the original and they beat us over the head with there being third identity. Harrow lays out the villain scheme in the first episode.

    The only think not explained is why Spector/Grant didn’t realise someone other than them has been out and about in Cairo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭magic_murph


    It is an answer and it is my answer.

    What you mean to say is you don't accept it as a valid answer. That's ok too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    That is a lot of time to devote to something you say you don’t care about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭magic_murph


    Incorrect.

    Answer: a thing that is said, written, or done as a reaction to a question, statement, or situation.

    #everydayisaschoolday



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    No it isn’t an answer because you didn’t answer the question.

    you are putting more effort into this than you are with my original question of why you think Moon Knight is all over the place.

    how come you can’t answer that question?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭magic_murph


    Because it is just all over the place - quite a few people have shared this thought. (It being the story and the way it was played out)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    All you have done is repeat yourself. And just because still isn’t an answer.

    I’m not asking about what other people thought, I’m asking you.

    Why is it so hard for you to give an example of this “all over the place”?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭magic_murph


    Because the story was scattered and all over the place. I found it hard to follow.

    Just not for me I guess.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    “Just because” is not answer.

    i was genuinely interested in hearing what is confusing to people but you are clearly not the person to have that chat with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,272 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    Personally, I liked we had brand new characters that weren't the grandkids of some Shield office assistant that Captain America shook hands with or something like that but I do wish the story itself felt a bit more connected to the universe, even if it was by, I dunno, a side mission of the Eternals or just something to tie it in a bit.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    Why ? If you don’t like like something why not stop and watch and do something else?

    I cannot imagine devoting hours to something that I don’t enjoy or find interesting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,257 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    This is my criticism too.

    There doesn’t have to be crossover or such but the Snap is such a big deal that it should be mentioned and have a few “Thanos Was Right” graffitied around.

    There is a bus banner showing the relocation council but the Snap needs to be more visible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Agree that it would have been preferable. I feel like it'll be tied in much more down the line - COVID completely messed up the ordering of the recent releases so it hamstrung clear overlaps and caused reshoots to clarify/remove elements. Sounds like they played it safe with this by just keeping things subtle.

    They made a connection with Black Panther's Ancestral Plane and I'd suspect that the gods will overlap with other rumours coming down the line. It also appears they're building out an MCU Supernatural group of characters who will cross-over more frequently with each other than others, this supernatural group including the likes of Blade, Black Knight - each known to be in London the same as Steven. Upcoming Werewolf by night would likely get mixed up with them also.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm surprised people found it hard to follow. Pretty basic stuff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭magic_murph


    Because the story telling was scattered - as I have said numerous times.

    Lets just leave it at that.



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