Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2022 - No PM requests - See Mod note post #1

rx8 · 08-05-2022 9:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119030786#Comment_119030786

It's like everything else.....

If it's working well, then some Mod or other will come along and fix it. 😉

(you know I'm only winding you up DrPhilG)

Curiousness99 · 08-05-2022 1:30pm

Still learning more about solar and got lots of good advice here

Thinking so far(mostly advice from others on here)

1. Understand your usage!

2. When sizing your system ( output) work out how much power you use between 10am and 4pm in the summer months, this daily output plus whatever battery should target how many kwh you expect to generate.

3. Battery payback seems very long if ever

4. If you have borrowing youd be better from a financial perspective to pay off instead of getting solar

5. Don't bother engaging with companies until you sort the other bits out. There are lots of price gougers around and advice on what's suitable us not forthcoming based on my experience to date

6. I've realised that lots of electrical gadgets ,tvs, home wifi, home automation, cctv lighting systems all add up to big usage.. ( apologies to my heat pump) , 100+ halogen downlighters and outdoor lighting doesnt help either

Lastly if you have a night meter checking to fooking thing works 🙈

Thanks all for the advice so far

DrPhilG · 08-05-2022 9:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119030786#Comment_119030786

Lol

It's only quiet now because previously 9 out of every 10 posts was "can I have a PM".

bullit_dodger · 08-05-2022 10:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119031707#Comment_119031707

Yup - most of what you say is good advice. Understanding your usage helps you pick the system which is fit for purpose.

Not sure I understand (or agree with) #2 though. There are various ways to size your system. One way I like to think about it is size your system to cover your usage in March or October. if you do that then all the other months in between your golden. Forget about trying to cover it in Nov, Dec, Jan & Feb. Weather is too miserable and sun is too low to the horizon and the days too short.

Battery payback -can- be long or never, but also it can be short (6-7 years) too. Depends on your usage profile, you just have to do the math. One thing though is that with the general trend for Kwhr prices to increase, battery are "in general" a good idea. Even a small one would help smooth your consumption on days where it's broken clouds. Most people would do well with 5Kwhr.

#4 is debatable. I'm not a great fan of having loan myself, but sometimes its necessaary. One thing though is that in approx 10 years or so, most people will have their installation paid off with the savings generated by solar. After that.....it's "free money".

Bakka · 09-05-2022 3:45am

Just reading there, that an energy provider in Ireland will pay 13.5 cent per kwh generated by solar. Wow that is much better than expected. That is the first energy company to announce the price they will pay for FIT. Other companies may very well pay even more. Keep an eye out for all FIT, that companies will be announcing soon. I'm not sure I can name the Company here, except think of 10 PIN bowling. I checked out their website and it's clearly on there in black and white. That means that batteries for storage just don't make financial sense now, as the payback is just not there.

graememk · 09-05-2022 4:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119034675#Comment_119034675

We can name energy companies.

Although pinenergy was well discussed in the FIT threads.. did you look at the day rate?... 38c!

smacl · 09-05-2022 7:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119030786#Comment_119030786

I guess a lot of folks, myself included, come on here to get a bit of advice and insight, get what they need and move on. Fantastic thread though, and fair play for those helping keeping it tick over. My install isn't happening until June and no doubt I'll be on with a raft of other solar related comments and questions once it is up an running. Will certainly post a couple of post installation pics and thoughts once I'm up and running.

championc · 09-05-2022 7:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119033996#Comment_119033996

Picking March or October is all well and good, but more and more people have Heat Pumps and EV's and other large drawing devices and then get an oversized system on that basis - when much of those devices use in the evening or overnight as well as during the day.

People therefore need to understand that they cannot possibly generate, store and use the full power required.

MAULBROOK · 09-05-2022 8:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119034780#Comment_119034780

That's what I'm talking about, its fantastic that its helpful. Look forward to seeing the end results.

cloughy · 09-05-2022 9:05am

Anyone know of how long after payment of deposit, complete SEAI forms installation may happen. I was talking to Enniskillen boys, and they mentioned booked out for installs till Sept, anyone have similar experience?

mel123 · 09-05-2022 9:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119034971#Comment_119034971

Yep im August and not even a confirmed date in August, just August and that was booked one month ago.

bullit_dodger · 09-05-2022 10:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119034782#Comment_119034782

Very true championc about heat pumps and EV, but would that not be covered by doing what I said? In winter we know that PV can't drive a heat pump. My own solar gives me about 10% of my consumption in Nov-Feb (and I don't have a heat pump). To try and size panels to match that.....outrageously expensive and you would never get payback on the panels unless you were somehow sourcing them for next to nothing. The original post had.....

2. When sizing your system ( output) work out how much power you use between 10am and 4pm in the summer months, this daily output plus whatever battery should target how many kwh you expect to generate.

I was trying to fix that assumption/statement as it's not the way to go. Sizing for the marginal months (March/Oct) is a better way, but as you say.....it has disadvantages.

Curiousness99 · 09-05-2022 11:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035262#Comment_119035262

ls sizing based on the max expected output from the system not better? If you size using marginal months will you not end up selling to the grid ( for probably very low prices)?

Clearly cant generalise too much as it depends on exactly usage.

My rationale for sizing ours is we seem to use about 15kwh on average between 10am and 4pm when I am not heating the house (water only). I am assuming I'll get a battery of 5kwh so around 20khw a day I could use or 600kwh a month. I plan to get an EV which would probably use another 200kwh plus per month which we should be able to charge during the day. So in total 800kwh I could use in the summer months. Putting in details for expected output that implies a system of around 6.5 kwh system and I've upped it a little to future proof. Excepting it's a rough and ready calculation the approach seems sound to me. Am I missing something?

silver_sky · 09-05-2022 12:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119034971#Comment_119034971

My experience is that they're all over the shop. I placed an order, was given an estimated install date, and paid a deposit. But it seems they didn't book the order. When I enquired on the order they came back giving a date end of summer - that's not on. It was supposed to be May. I'm not happy.

Word of warning - be careful who you recommend. Just because they were good in the past does not mean that the same rings true today.

championc · 09-05-2022 3:00pm

I get to topup the EV but in reality, if you have an EV, you'll charge it on night rate. Putting solar excess into a car is slow going unless you have a large PV and small battery.

A battery twice the size of a PV array will get charged most days from March to October, and will then have reasonable capacity to load-shift in winter months

MAULBROOK · 09-05-2022 3:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119036027#Comment_119036027

Thats a kick in the nuts.

Curiousness99 · 09-05-2022 3:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119036802#Comment_119036802

Can you explain the point on load shifting please?

I could probably scale back a bit on the number of panels based on your experience ( assuming any excess electricity gets wholesale rates)

smacl · 09-05-2022 4:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119036027#Comment_119036027

Interesting, I've an install due from them in June, deposit paid end of March. Hopefully won't be delayed and will post again here to let folks know either way. June agreed in an email but no specific date in June. My guess is given they're well priced and would seem to do decent work, they're flat out and possibly overbooked.

silver_sky · 09-05-2022 4:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037346#Comment_119037346

Mine was paid mid-March. 🤷‍♂️

hold my beer · 09-05-2022 5:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119036027#Comment_119036027

I'm finding the same. People not getting back to me constantly and having to chase them. Thought I had it down to 2 suppliers but can't get a hold of either now. I'm tempted to leave it until the war is over, energy prices stabilise and there isn't such a rush to get them.

Irish Steve · 09-05-2022 6:16pm

I've sent e-mails to several "recommended" suppliers over the last couple of weeks, and so far, not even had an acknowledgement, let alone a reply. That may well be because I want something non standard, and I'm beginning to suspect that more than a few of the suppliers are being very picky about who or what they quote, and if it's non standard, or needs a bit of work, they can't be bothered. So be it, but that may well come back to haunt them once the panic at the moment subsides, and it will have to, there's no way that long term, things can stay as confused and crazy as they are at the moment.

What is likely to get interesting is the whole debate about oil, gas and other solid fuel sources, in that while oil is no longer acceptable in new builds, I wonder how long it will be before Ryan and his cronies come out with something along the lines of "we can't afford to use gas to heat homes any more, we can only use it for major users like electricity generation for the next few years", and the pressure will then be on to install even more heat pumps.

As to how effective that will be, the jury is well and truly still out on that subject, there's a huge number of houses that are well and truly not even close to ready for heat pumps, and that's for now ignoring the problems that a massive increase in electricity usage will cause for the distribution networks.

What is very sure is that the next 10 years are going to be bad news for a lot of people.

As for here, I'm trying to work out the right configuration for a Solar system, and make sure that as much as I can, I future proof it for what's almost certain to happen, and at the same time, work out the best strategy for heating going forward. We're oil at the moment, I was going to move to gas, but not sure that's a good longer term plan, and I'm not completely convinced about heat pumps, mainly because of the problems of the system operating temperature, changing all the radiators is not an easy decision, and under floor heating is not a possibility, tearing out 200 Sq mtrs of tiles out isn't about to happen, so I may even end up having to look at something like a wood pellet boiler, but people like SEAI are saying very little about them, which is not encouraging.

smacl · 09-05-2022 8:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037729#Comment_119037729

As for here, I'm trying to work out the right configuration for a Solar system, and make sure that as much as I can, I future proof it for what's almost certain to happen, and at the same time, work out the best strategy for heating going forward.

Very tough call. We're currently gas heating with electric everything else here. Heat goes off in a power cut as the boiler is electric, but we can still cook. I'm very much into the idea of having redundant energy sources in the house, and a big battery that can keep things running at a reduced rate is a great boon, even if it's charged largely by night rate electricity in the Winter.

Difficult to know precisely what the future holds, but more supply interruptions and increased energy cost seem likely. I suspect the immediate squeeze on fossil fuels in the short term will actually be a 'good thing' in the medium to long term as we inevitably switch to renewables, strive for higher efficiency and endeavour to consume less. Long term, I suspect we'll see much more community level energy collection and heating due to obvious economies of scale. If, as a society, we can afford the costly infrastructure of the likes of water meters for rather questionable gain, I'd hope we can provide low cost social renewable energy collection and possibly heating.

Irish Steve · 09-05-2022 9:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119038312#Comment_119038312

@smacl We're thinking along similar lines, but I suspect that Ryan and his cronies will find ways to make any future path expensive for all of us, with damn all carrot and a lot of stick to beat us into submission, and unless they are forced into a change, the FFG grouping won't rock the boat, as they can see all too clearly the spectre of SF waiting in the wings to take over and do whatever they see as relevant to achieve their objectives.

Your medium term would seem to be to look at a Solar add on, with battery, if you don't already have it, as that would provide pretty much all the security you need to stay comfortable even if the grid is out for a longer period, and yes, maybe there will be better alternatives at a local level in a few years time, but given how inept some of our leadership is, I'm not going to rely on them for anything of this nature, they'll probably still be arguing about who should own the land for the National Maternity Hospital rather than deal with issues that are affecting most of the population.

championc · 09-05-2022 9:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037032#Comment_119037032

Load shifting is charging batteries using night rate and using this night rate bought energy during the day. You'd do it a fair amount from the end of Oct until March (when the clocks are back)

Really worthwhile if you have the likes of 10kW DIY battery, as you could end up using little or no day rate units during this time.

bullit_dodger · 09-05-2022 9:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035627#Comment_119035627

Yes, your partially correct that you'll end up selling to the grid, but in order to see what your arguing, here's what a 5Kwp system in Dublin (south facing) would generate.

So a 5Kwp system will "just about" cover your 600Kwh a month in May. It'll be there abouts in Jun/Jul, but for March, Sept Oct, it will be well short. The thing is, is that your 5Kw/6Kw inverter is the same cost, the battery is the same cost......so why not add 3-4 panels and improve your marginal months? The goal is to improve your self-sufficiency % as much as you can. If panels were dirt cheap, we'd all have 20Kwp in panels to try and get winter covered, but in reality.....the return on investment for those panels to cover your usage for Winter isn't worth it.

silver_sky · 09-05-2022 10:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037346#Comment_119037346

Update now, I'm also estimated install for June. Delays due to supply issues.

I expect this will be across the board, not just with our northerly friends.

smacl · 09-05-2022 11:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119038735#Comment_119038735

Yep, just heard the same in an email from them. Fingers crossed all goes to plan

Curiousness99 · 10-05-2022 7:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119038629#Comment_119038629

Think I need a spreadsheet to demonstrate the financial benefit. I was focusing on selling excess electricity back to the grid at 6c per kWh which would lead to a very long pay back for the extra panels, but should clearly add in the savings of the additional electricity generated for the other 6 to 8 months of the year outside the peak generation months which I’d use all saving around 20c per kWh.

i saw panels for sale (tier 1) for €230 each; I wonder is that around what installers pay?

dont suppose you know how much it is to buy a pure drive battery going the diy route adding capacity later on?

smacl · 10-05-2022 8:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119038569#Comment_119038569

What type of energy loss do you get in terms of charging and discharging a battery? I'd imagine it could be substantial if you're swapping between DC and AC where there are inverters and transformers involved and was wondering whether the combination of this loss coupled with the limited number of charge / recharge cycles on a battery, and amortised battery cost over time, would make load shifting an economically viable activity.

bullit_dodger · 10-05-2022 10:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039516#Comment_119039516

Depends on the battery config and efficency of the inverters. 15% on average sounds about right. GivEnergy (the one I have) rocks in about 8-9% loss, but that is unusual. Yes, to answer your question. Even accounting for losses and wear and tear on a battery "load shifting" is an economic viable activity. Save about €350 / year just load shifting on my 8.2Kwhr battery. Makes another €200-250 or so storing electricity to use later in the day.

Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2022 - No PM requests - See Mod note post #1

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