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US Supreme Court to overturn Roe vs Wade

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,898 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    As usual, the right has no idea what democracy is. These are unelected figures who can remove human rights at will. It's something I'd expect in the Republican party's dream fascist dystopia.

    It's ok though. The treacherous, deceitful snakes can just relocate.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 345 ✭✭Dingaan



    The elected congress and senate could pass an abortion law that could make abortion legal. That's actually how democracy should work.



  • Registered Users Posts: 83,423 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users Posts: 345 ✭✭Dingaan


    A 14th amendment that is very ambiguous.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,478 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    I was under the impression that breaking the windows and robbing the furniture was legitimate political discourse.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 83,423 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    No there are laws against that.


    It also turns out there are laws against Protesting at a judges home, too. 18 U.S. Code § 1507 is hard to dispute with here:

    Whoever, with the intent of interfering with, obstructing, or impeding the administration of justice, or with the intent of influencing any judge, juror, witness, or court officer, in the discharge of his duty, pickets or parades in or near a building housing a court of the United States, or in or near a building or residence occupied or used by such judge, juror, witness, or court officer, or with such intent uses any sound-truck or similar device or resorts to any other demonstration in or near any such building or residence, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

    Nothing in this section shall interfere with or prevent the exercise by any court of the United States of its power to punish for contempt.

    (Added Sept. 23, 1950, ch. 1024, title I, § 31(a), 64 Stat. 1018; amended Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(K), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,015 ✭✭✭Christy42


    There is also a yearly march to the the supreme Court to get them to overturn Roe vs Wade which would seem to break the same law.



  • Registered Users Posts: 83,423 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    That, very specifically, was protected by the SCOTUS in the 1983 Case, United States v. Grace

    I wonder if the SCOTUS would hear a case involving protestors arrested protesting their high court corruption though, at their homes. That would be unlikely but interesting, for the sake of irony. 18 U.S. Code § 1507 in general is a Time Manner and Place exclusion to the first amendment though, and I think it would be hard to argue it's a right to shout into their window while they're asleep to get your argument across which will keep until waking hours.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,015 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Why would it be hard to argue? They are perfectly happy and have allowed protests next to planned parenthood to hassle anyone walking in which is a supreme court judgement. They have provided the above exception to this law. This protest seems to have been started by the neighbours themselves. Protesting outside of politician's homes is pretty well established at this stage.


    The entire point of said law is stop people from coercing a judgement they want from a judges place of work/home and have provided an exception for a case which pretty explicitly wants to coerce the judgement they want already. Given it doesn't protect anyone else's home so it isn't a right to privacy for Kavanagh or anything I fail to see why the home should provide any extra protection to the office in the specific case of this law.


    I dislike protesting outside homes in general but there is no specific law to stop that happening outside of judges.



  • Registered Users Posts: 83,423 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Why would it be hard to argue? They are perfectly happy and have allowed protests next to planned parenthood to hassle anyone walking in which is a supreme court judgement. 

    A Planned Parenthood clinic is not representative of the 3rd branch of government. The law is about Jurors, Attorneys, Judges, Courthouses, and trying to insulate the institution of justice from undue influence. It's hard for me to sympathize with Brett Kavanaugh, Boofs is a disgrace, but, if this same protest was happening outside of 12 jurors homes, I think that would be an issue regardless of the case. But I get that these are not jurors, these are Justices.

    The law, as written, does protect judges in their residence from public protest. Would it stand up I don't know. Will it get challenged now maybe but I doubt it personally. One could argue that Justices are Judges of a far more significant stature and that the balance of the constitution would demand they be exposed to the voice of the people. Whether Police will even enforce that law, however, remains to be seen. I don't know if the protests are even continuing and I saw no report of any arrests.

    This protest seems to have been started by the neighbours themselves. 

    You weren't lying

    Harder case to make against the neighbor so.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,625 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    Didn't the court previously hold that protesting outside of the homes of abortion clinic employees is protected by the first amendment? Shoe's on the other foot now and they're crying about it. Fück him, he can always move like Christine Blasey has had to do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 83,423 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    They did, and they set 2 different standards between the clinics and the courts. The law on paper backs them up on that; essentially a woman should be harassed and coerced and manipulated and shouted at when she makes a very important decision, it should require multiple visits and appeals, and clinicians should be legally compelled to even say things to the patient which are complete bullshit. But the Supreme Court cannot be dare influenced by the plebs they change the lives of (100s of Millions of living Americans) depending, sometimes, on whether they look at an argument from one hand or the other. Lady Justice is Blind they insist...




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,412 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    His statement isn’t wrong.

    Neither is the observation in the article that a number of Republicans are against the concept of a National ban.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,415 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    But it was the same unelected judges that granted the right in the first place.

    This is the main problem with judicial activism, it's pretty much using any means possible to win. The right way to have done this would have been for legislatures to legislate for access to such services - as was done here.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,898 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    This isn't the same thing at all. In the first instance, they interpreted the constitution and established a precedent. In a functioning democracy, the government would have legislated to incorporated this precedent into law. This didn't happen and now, the judges have decided for political reasons to undo precedent.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,468 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    The X Case judgement wasn't implemented here for over 20 years.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,898 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,468 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Well I won't go into it. But you're on your high horse talking about functioning democracies, when clearly our recent history (and problems still exist) with abortion is completely disastrous.

    I would think Irish people would have some awareness not to enter the American abortion debate.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,898 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I'd like you to go into it. With sources please.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,924 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Because our elected representatives didn’t want to touch it with a forty foot barge pole, same reason elected representatives didn’t want to touch the issue with a forty foot barge pole in the US -

    To coincide with the February anniversary of the case, left-wing TDs in the Dail parliament, Clare Daly, Joan Collins and Mick Wallace, put forward a Private Members' Bill to finally legislate on the X Case.

    It was rejected by 109 votes to 20, with Labour TDs among those to vote against it despite the party's pro-choice stance.

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/debate-rages-on-20-years-after-the-x-case-resolved-nothing-28901347.html



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,583 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    The elected Democratic representatives in the Congress all want to talk about this leaked decision. They're campaigning on it. They're passing laws about it. Now, the Republicans in the US Senate, especially, don't want to talk about this because of the reasons you give: fear of backlash.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,898 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    That article is from 2012. The eighth amendment was still in place. It couldn't be brought into law with that abomination in place.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,924 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Well, not to be a picky fcuker, but it’s only some Democrats who want to talk about this leaked decision. Republicans are talking about it too, but naturally - not from the same perspective as Democrats who want to talk about it.

    Overheal made the same point as you’re making about Republicans being afraid of a backlash, but I just don’t see any evidence to support that argument when Republicans already had trigger laws in place, ready to go, were they ever successful in having Roe v Wade overturned. In the meantime they’ll continue to try and legislate for more restrictive laws regarding abortion in their respective States.

    On that basis, fears of a backlash? What backlash?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,415 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    They did interpret the constitution that way but that was not the only interpretation available to them. The ruling was not unanimous. Many consider it to be an example of judicial activism.

    The right way to go about it would have been to legislate for that right.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,898 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I don't think so. You either have laws or you have this nonsense.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,924 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    The article could easily be from 1992, 2012 or 2022 even if the 8th amendment had remained in place, because the 8th amendment wasn’t the issue. The issue was the lack of explicit legislation on the issue of abortion.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,898 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    We're beginning to get a bit off topic. I'm not sure there'd be a point since it seems such legislation could easily be ruled as unconstitutional.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,583 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Ballot box backlash. Just because laws are ready to go, doesn't mean (a) they will go (b) they'll go without being noticed. There's already backlash - people are protesting outside the SCOTUS and at various judges' homes. So you agree, politicians are talking about it. Good. And yeah, they have triggers ready to go once Roe is repealed.


    Like a wise person once said, "Be careful what you wish for." I can see it getting pretty ugly in the US, reminiscent of the Viet Nam war protests.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,924 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    I don’t think we’re off topic, sure the whole reason for the introduction of the 8th amendment in the first place was because some people didn’t want a repeat of the Roe v Wade decision in Ireland. The wording of the amendment was criticised at the time because it was argued that it would permit abortion in Ireland - the opposite of it’s intended effect.

    The referendum on the right to travel came about as a result of the X case, and then there was the A, B and C case v Ireland which would be similar to the the Roe v Wade case on the basis that the Court rejected a right to abortion, but had violated the womens right to privacy -


    A, B and C v Ireland is a landmark 2010 case of the European Court of Human Rights on the right to privacy under Article 8. The court rejected the argument that article 8 conferred a right to abortion, but found that Ireland had violated the European Convention on Human Rights by failing to provide an accessible and effective procedure by which a woman can have established whether she qualifies for a legal abortion under current Irish law.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A,_B_and_C_v_Ireland

    Which led to the ham-fisted effort we have in legislation today under which the woman who captured the attention of the public would still not have qualified for a termination of her pregnancy as she was 17 weeks pregnant at the time and there was no requirement to terminate her pregnancy on the basis of the legislation as it is currently written.

    Having gotten rid of the 8th amendment didn’t and still hasn’t changed anything in practical terms. It simply means more cases are likely to come before the Courts than before is all.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,468 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Sources for what?

    Are you over a certain age, can you not remember.



This discussion has been closed.
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