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NI Assembly Elections - A rerun of the GFA referendum?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 69,155 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady



    Wilfully misunderstanding the distinction between the duties of a head of government and political party rivalry.

    Anyone can see what you are doing.

    P.S. Michael was tripping over himself to congratulate US president ‘elect’.

    It was clear to everyone what she had achieved and the weasel couldn’t even mention her name.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I heard on radio yesterday morning that Arlene Foster and someone else (i think from Wales) congratulated Michele... MM was aguest on the prog and no mention of him... Also interesting talk of Joe Biden visit in October... isn't the timing of that interesting... GFA 2 ??...



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    the weasel

    If anyone called MoN or MLMD a "weasel", you would be straight to the mods complaining, or making a big thing about it for weeks, probably with someone else alongside claiming it was misogynistic.

    Where is your proof that he hasn't congratulated her? Maybe he congratulated her in an interview you didn't hear? Maybe he is waiting for her to be actually elected First Minister before congratulating her? You have acted as judge and jury in declaring him a "weasel" without any evidence at all. Where are your standards of demanding proof?

    As usual, you have made a complete fool of yourself by pretending to have standards, pretending to give people the benefit of the doubt. It is low-level debating, pretty pathetic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,155 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    If he has congratulated her, nobody seems to know about it.

    And I would be more angry about him not marking what it meant for the Irish people she represents.

    There is a basic decent protocol being ignored here.

    Defend away all you want but you know rightly what it says about them because it’s par for the course.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    As regards the terms for a poll being met; partitionists/unionists need to understand that a majority in favour of unity is not the same as a nationalist majority in favour of unity because if the latter were the criteria then we already would have met the conditions.

    There will be voters in the so-called 'middle ground' (Ireland amongst their fellow Irish, not the Irish Sea) who will vote for a UI for many many reasons including returning to the EU, economic prospects, ending political chaos, dislike of the DUP, neutering unionist bigotry, and whatever you're having yourself.

    The waters to trawl for a UI will get larger while unionism shrinks.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,682 ✭✭✭Seathrun66


    You've got them on both sides. Unionist businesspeople or pragmatists who realise the way it's headed and also wish to return to the EU (which would be immediate upon reunification, already agreed with Strasbourg). They're close to balancing each other out so the traditional numbers are a good guide. Don't underestimate the frustration at being forced out of the EU despite a strong vote in favour of remaining so and polls since showing an increase in the pro-EU percentages.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,682 ✭✭✭Seathrun66


    Pro-reunification parties on 40.8%, including SF's highest ever vote.

    Alliance (Pro-EU) on 13.5%.

    You can include many many Protestant pragmatics who want a return to the EU and realise that reunification ensures it.

    The vote would be tight if held this year. Less so with every passing year. Reunification is inevitable and the sooner it's donee the better for the NI economy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,996 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Not that it would even happen, but if you held a renegotiation of the GFA, the two main parties wouldn't be able to come to a mutually-agreeable conclusion. Much less chance than in 1998. For political Unionism, the GFA has meant less power and less say over the direction of NI. For political Nationalism, it's meant pretty much the opposite. The likes of Jeffrey Donaldson would never sign off on anything that meant more of that. He'd go for something that rolled things back more to the DUP's liking, but he knows SF would never sign off on that, preferring instead to hold onto the existing agreement.

    The only thing left for the DUP would be to announce their renunciation of the GFA altogether, but my suspicion is that Westminster has given clear warnings that they will roughly arsef*ck the DUP and NI Unionists if they ever attempt it, and they will have to bend over and take it, so married are they to staying in the UK.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The Unionist people and pragmatists don't need a united Ireland to get an EU passport (the GFA gives them that). Neither do they need a united Ireland for access to EU markets (the Protocol gives them that). Neither will a united Ireland make them better off (the South can't afford the €12 billion subsidy or pay for the pensions).

    Sure they want to be in the EU, but they as many of the benefits of the EU as they need, without actually having to be in it. They can even work in the EU as border workers, and get all the benefits.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Well, you can dream and fantasise, but it doesn't work like that. Pro-EU does not make Pro-united Ireland.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,682 ✭✭✭Seathrun66


    In reality the subvention is only £2m-£3m when you look at the details. Easily covered by EU, US and other investment post-reunification.

    The businesses in NI know that. Most will be discreetly pushing for reunification. They're aware of its inevitability and it ends the uncertainty caused by an absurd UK government. Pragmatism will win out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    In what alternate reality is the subvention only €2-€3m? I think you have been listening to some very inaccurate propaganda to reach that conclusion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,682 ✭✭✭Seathrun66


    The alliance vote is a mix of Catholic, Protestant, Unionist, Nationalist, Liberal and Green. Almost all are pro-EU and reunification is a way back in plus an end to uncertainty.

    Siege mentality Blanch, your prerogative but you must feel like one of the Afrikaans railing against the end of Apartheid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,570 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    You've got them on both sides. Unionist businesspeople or pragmatists who realise the way it's headed and also wish to return to the EU (which would be immediate upon reunification, already agreed with Strasbourg). They're close to balancing each other out

    Are they though?

    According to the 2020 NILT survey,

    That's nearly three times the percentage of Catholics in favour of remaining in the UK as Protestants in favour of a UI.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,155 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Did you look at the question?

    I wouldn't vote for it tomorrow either because it would collapse into a mess.

    There needs to be a plan, then ask people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    That is an obscene comparison. At no point in time was Northern Ireland ever close to what South Africa was. That is an awful insult to the suffering of the people of South Africa to make such a comparison. Have some decency and withdraw that post.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,682 ✭✭✭Seathrun66


    Too far out of date, Brexit has happened since then. The Sept 2019 Ashcroft poll of that era showed 51% supported reunification. That is also out of date.




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,682 ✭✭✭Seathrun66



    Nope, it's valid. An abuse of human rights by the leaders of one community that prevented electoral, educational, housing and occupational progress by the other. This was done by means of systematic and institutional gerrymandering, violence, discrimination and repression. This has now greatly changed and will evolve even further into a system of equality for all.

    What is greatly in common with the structures is the recognition by the oppressors of their corruption and abuse and their general ability to accept the inevitable change. You Blanch, have little to no grasp on the evolutionary nature of this change on our island. You Blanch have your head stuck in the sand. You Blanch are on the wrong side of history.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,682 ✭✭✭Seathrun66


    In this one, the most detailed peer-reviewed analysis to date from Dublin City University. The cost of the subvention is 20%-30% what the partitionists mendaciously infer. That argument will be discredited during the referendum campaign.




  • Registered Users Posts: 16,570 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Survey was completed late 2020. Depends on when you date Brexit as happening, but I suppose you could say that was just before the end of the 'transition period'. Anyway the 2021 iteration of the survey is due out in a couple of weeks so we should have more up to date info.

    More broadly extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and the claim that substantial numbers of Protestants would vote for a UI to a point where a referendum would stand a good chance of passing in the near future sounds pretty extraordinary to me. Just pointing to pro-EU sentiment among moderate unionists doesn't cut it IMO.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Just so you are aware. Surveys with a question "would you vote for a UI tomorrow" differ from "would you vote for a UI in the future".



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I do not see the cost as a problem at all... I expect a fund will bwe set up between the signatures of GFA and likely the EU... I also expect that both NI and the Republic will be hansomely rewarded over say a 10 year transition period... It would work for the Brits as they be paying a proportion of what they pay now and the end in sight... I have had this view since the protocol was introduced... Most people here seem to think Boris is an eejit but i do not agree...



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,161 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Also surveys with the question "would you vote for a UI if it raised taxes" differ again so do questions about flags and anthems. The problem is its always in the abstract and theres not even a hint of plan in place, until we know exactly what it would look like and how it would work any polling is like throwing darts blindfolded.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,155 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The only people a UI doesn't suit are belligerent Unionists and bitter partitionists.

    It suits and benefits everyone else.

    Us,

    The EU,

    The British. All of them benefit from a UI.

    As an island the ramifications of this tweet alone shows just one of the benefits of a United island inside the EU, this should be genuinely scary for our food security and for our food industry:

    :



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    So Francie is going to have to convince them that he is really a nice guy and win them over...

    Like tell a guy to fcuk off in such a way he will look forward to the trip...

    I don't think iw will suit the politicians North or South... serious reform...



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,155 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    If there is an outbreak like the UK vets fear maestro Unionist farmers I know will be trying to persuade us to get on with it. And right they would be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    That is just delusional stuff. A wish and a prayer type of expectation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,155 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    A very real threat to our food security, the status of our exports if there is an outbreak of any animal disease on this island.

    'Wish and a prayer'?

    You have clearly never talked to a farmer never mind a Unionist farmer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,778 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    Politics is a dirty game and SF are the best exponents of this in the Republic. Complaining people aren’t congratulating them on their success is ridiculous.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,245 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Because it's not harmless and you know it! The issue of Gaeilge has been weaponised, partic up north in order to stick it to the DUP.



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