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General British politics discussion thread

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    #4862
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,514 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040549#Comment_119040549

    Why is it only bad when Starmer does it?

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #4863
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040549#Comment_119040549


    Where you and your colleagues away from home with nowhere to go to eat? It was not a random gettogether.



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    #4864
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,514 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The footage was shot by the son of Breitbart writer James Delingpole. It's exactly the sort of standard of journalism I'd expect from that organisation as well.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/09/revealed-student-ivo-delingpole-james-breitbart-beergate-video-that-threatens-to-sink-starmer?CMP=share_btn_tw

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #4865
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,322 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    To indulge in the thought experiment of Starmer falling on his sword as a means to skewer Johnson's hypocrisy, if he was fined and shown in breach of lockdown rules ... who would be waiting in the wings to replace Starmer? Rayner? It would certainly put the backs up all those snobs and misogynists who have tried to objectify her and would entertain, but not sure who else would potentially gain party support.



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    #4866
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,819 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037034#Comment_119037034

    Being unpopular with the grassroots of labour is not necessarily a bad thing.


    Alot of those people are woeful knobs that labour will take years to recover from.


    If Starmer goes who is there to replace him. Will it just lead to more self indulgent infighting in Labour.


    If Starmer hadn't slapped down his internal opponents hard, would labour have a future?



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    #4867
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,819 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040731#Comment_119040731

    He advanced his political position, whether we like it or not.


    Personally I don't think Starmer should resign.



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    #4868
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,308 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040221#Comment_119040221

    No idea how Starmer resigning is good for Starmer.

    It's a bit of a disaster.

    Clearly and presumably, lots of politicians broke the covid rules. Starmer should have kept that in mind when he called for Johnson to resign.



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    #4869
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,308 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040780#Comment_119040780

    Rayner being leader would be great fun for the neutral observer.



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    #4870
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 7,096 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040780#Comment_119040780

    She has said she will also resign if issues with a Fixed Penalty Notice. Was she at the same event as Starmer? If so then they could both be gone.



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    #4871
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,729 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040901#Comment_119040901

    Not great for you then.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040943#Comment_119040943

    All we know is Starmer and a few people in a photo with him w ere working in the office.

    I could be wrong but I don't think it would be normal practice for any other MPs to be up there canvassing a by-election.



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    #4872
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,308 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119041109#Comment_119041109

    I meant in general. As if every politician obeyed all of the rules all of the time.



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    #4873
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,514 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119041128#Comment_119041128

    Both sides.

    You never answered me when I asked why you think it's ok for Johnson to break the rules but not Starmer.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #4874
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,308 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119041164#Comment_119041164

    I never said it was OK for Johnson to break rules.



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    #4875
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,514 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119041450#Comment_119041450

    It's the implication of your attempt above to normalise the behaviour. You only criticise Starmer and then say everyone's at it. You've made no attempt whatsoever to criticise Johnson for engaging in much worse behaviour.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #4876
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,308 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119041529#Comment_119041529

    You sound upset that I haven't criticised Johnson.



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    #4877
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,514 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119041546#Comment_119041546

    No. Just calling it as I see it. Criticise whoever you want. It rings hollow when you're fine with one person you sympathise with breaking rules but not someone else.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #4878
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,308 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119041552#Comment_119041552

    Well I'm sorry. Maybe I will criticise Johnson more to keep you happy.



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    #4879
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,322 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    TBH this is the exact same narrative that occurred in the Trump thread. The usual, "sure they're all as bad" kind of attitude that adds nothing but a trite observation of no substance. Yes, politicians are shifty. Dog bites man.

    If Starmer is guilty, then he should resign. So should Johnson; however trying to claim equivalence between the two degrees of criminality - or indeed ignoring the obvious political shenanigans going on in trying to stick Starmer for something, anything - is disingenuous, or naive.

    Indeed, let's not forget that only last week Nadine Dorries (IIRC) & the DAily Mail tried to crucify Starmer over eating a curry during lockdown, conveniently cropping out a man from the photo who died in 2019. This is not an honest situation or context going on here. Open to correction on the details.



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    #4880
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,514 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119041580#Comment_119041580

    Well said.

    What I find remarkable is that the Tory party has now spent so long as a populist English nationalist party headed by demagogues and venal populists that they actually have no idea how to respond to genuinely principled opposition except to sic their media allies on them.

    The crux of the whataboutery defence is that all actions are equal and being equal are irrelevant. It doesn't matter that Johnson parties while nearly 180,000 Brits died because Starmer had a curry with more than one person while at work.

    They've also fully embraced fake news, encapsulated nicely in your example above. All they've really done is prove that you really should never trust a Tory. Starmer has played a blinder. Labour say they have proof that he didn't break the rules but even if he did and he has to stand down, he'll prove that he's infinitely better suited to wield power than the morally and intellectually unqualified incumbent.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #4881
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,729 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119041580#Comment_119041580

    It doesn't matter if it's true or not or if the posters even believe it. The aim is to drag us down rabbit holes so we don't talk about the 400 recently unemployed Tory councillors.



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    #4882
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,514 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119041955#Comment_119041955

    Precisely though a minor Irish website is an odd stage on which to be witnessing this sort of performance. Even on social media, algorithms facilitating echo chambers mean most people will only get snippets of Johnson's lame attempts at distraction

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #4883
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,729 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119042231#Comment_119042231

    We have seen similar in the past where posters went on promotional crusades for certain right wing British news channels. Not sure what it will accomplish to convince a few on Boards other than to make the poster feel like an important soldier in the war against the EU/socialists/liberal attitudes/boogyman



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    #4884
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    I think this gamble for Starmer could be win-win. If no broken rules are found, then he's proven that he is decent and stuck by the rules like ordinary Joe Soaps. Unlike Johnson who pissed all over the rules.

    If broken rules are found, then he steps down. Proving that he, and Labour by proxy, are decent and honourable. Unlike Johnson and the Tories. Labour gets to elect a new leader without a backstabbing and poisonous contest, and they have an opportunity to reinvigorate themselves after a relatively poor showing at the local elections. Starmer gets a comfy front bench position where he doesn't have to deal with being constantly attacked and lied about in the press.

    Win-win.



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    #4885
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,576 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Is opening a foodbank really something that Tory politicians should be celebrating?

    https://twitter.com/JonathonHawkes/status/1524144670959411202




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    #4886
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,322 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Not just celebrating, but laughing like it's some fun occasion. A jolly time had by all. Truly life and politics has become immune to parody.



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    #4887
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,654 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The tone deaf do not realise they cannot sing.



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    #4888
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,514 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045142#Comment_119045142

    It's just the new normal. A cheap publicity stunt with only the left questioning why foodbanks are even necessary in a country where the chancellor of the excehquer spends £13,000 heating his swimming pool and a piece of metal gets a 3-day escort so some old man can read a document that he had no part in writing.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #4889
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,393 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045077#Comment_119045077

    It's a tricky one. I don't think foodbanks are regarded quite as negatively in the UK as we think. They've kinda become normalised as part of society showing how caring it is.

    I'm trying to think of valid comparisons. If a politician turned up at the opening of an adult education centre or a drug rehab clinic then no-one would bat an eye-lid, even though it would clearly be better for everyone if children's education had been better, or the drug problem was solved at an earlier stage.

    Foodbanks seem to be in almost the same territory - "it's sad that there's some poverty which we are trying to address despite it being a huge task, but at least we are putting in place measures to prevent people starving".

    Note- I'm not defending the situation, I think it's terrible. Just explaining it from a different viewpoint.



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    #4890
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,514 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045445#Comment_119045445

    This is a fair point. I think they've become normalised now. It started with austerity but then Brexit and covid dominated politics here so it's no surprise to see them becoming so entrenched.

    For Tories, they're a shining example of private charity. For anyone else, they exemplify out of touch and ineffective government. I agree with the latter.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #4891
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 7,096 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045466#Comment_119045466

    Are Foodbanks privately run in the UK? (I honestly don't know).

    I know that in the US the culture there is that private charities step in to try and fill the gap left by the hollowing out of services by persistent underfunding. Some extreme libertarians even believe that almost all public services should be provided by charities - which reminds me of the saying: "Libertarianism - a political philosophy for people who believe that Americans aren't selfish enough"



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