Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

He couldn't have won the kicking contest all by himself. And Munster scored straight after Carbery's missed kicks, or so I've read - I didn't catch the whole match.

Carberry is a fine place kicker. Couldn't believe he was poor last weekend off the tee. Carberry is a fantastic rugby player, but not a fantastic out half. In time he could be. He's getting a run now and is doing well.

I don't think RB is any better than a fringe international. He's fine against tier 2 sides. But he's not a guy I'd play v the kiwis. His defense is good enough but, he's not the guy to open defenses.

We're all in on Carberry at the minute. I can't see that changing prior to the world cup.

what opportunities? most of the others may have got one or two starts at most and were dumped pretty much straight away, despite 10 being a position where a run of games to established oneself is needed by all but the very best. even at provincial level, crowley and healy have deserved to keep the 10 jersey when they were afforded their chance but JC comes straight back in when fit

as much as youre being sarcastic, its pretty well known that the irfu were pushing for JC at 10 at the start of his career at least. whether it was schmidt/nucifora/whoever else, leinster were told to have him at 10/22 towards the end of his time there despite the fact they saw him as a 15 (as did blackrock college back in the day). so not a conspiracy, but most definitely meddling

ive rarely seen him described as underrated, just see the usual tired hyperbole of him always standing deep......

nail on the head there. not a leinster fan but i think he gets a very hard time. id happily swap him if ye want JC back to be honest

none of them were given a consistent run of games though. even munster were swapping between healy/hanrahan which was unnecessary imo

big fan of hastings but apart from those two theyre a bit short at the moment it seems. the kinghorn option at 10 is bizarre to me so maybe he wouldnt make the squad, but he would deserve to imo. but then again i think its crazy that hastings wasnt in the 6N squad so i dont know what would actually happen i suppose

Well, you can never have too much context.

Is U24s/U25s even a thing that exists in sport? You've got U18, U19, U20, there used to be U21, and there's U23s in athletics.

Maybe they should just call it the breakout player award or something.

So, what, something similar couldn't happen now? That's rather a narrow view, considering what Luke Fitzgerald, George North and James O'Connor did.

its meddling as the coaches didnt want him at 10 but the irfu or whoever in the irish coaching setup wanted to see him at 10 so leinster's hand was forced.

none of the others were given long enough was my point though, its almost impossible to impose oneself on the team enough in one or two games unless they are against weak opposition. look at the ireland games since the world cup:

2020 6N - Sexton starts all games, RB on bench with minimal gametime. Does pretty well off the bench v france

2020 Autumn Nations Cup - Wales JS starts, Burns on the bench, connor murray finishes the game. England RB starts, BB on the bench. Georgia BB starts, RB on the bench. Scotland JS starts, RB on the bench

2021 6N - Wales JS starts, BB on the bench, obviously this was the game where he missed touch at the end. France BB starts, RB on the bench and again does very well when he comes on. Italy & Scotland JS starts, BB on the bench. England JS starts, RB on the bench

2021 July - Japan Carbery starts, BB on the bench. USA JC starts, Harry Byrne on the bench

2021 November - Japan & NZ JS starts, JC on the bench. Argentina JC starts, HB bench

2022 6N - Wales JS starts, JC on the bench. France JC starts, Jack Carty on the bench. Italy JC starts, JS on the bench. England & Scotland JS starts, JC on the bench and comes on at 15 v scot

So since the last world cup, the longest run of games a 10 other than sexton has got for ireland has been.........2 in a row, which Carbery had twice. not exactly a massive amount of time to get to grips with running a team, especially when all of them are pretty inexperienced at international level. injuries played a part too to an extent, but the constant swapping in and out of who is at 10/on the bench is not condusive to developing an alternative option. out of all of the others, billy burns is probably the only one to straight out do badly and even at that he wasnt too bad against france after his missed touch

as for munster when JC was out, healy had played very well in the lead up to the european games and deserved to start, much as JJ played well against clermont. none of the options should be the 'de facto' starting 10, including carbery, seeing as theyre not at the sexton/o gara level

That's been the valid criticism for a couple of years, that knowing that we need a 2 and 3 option behind Sexton for the WC there was no systemic effort to give the alternatives a consistent run of games to establish themselves as a yes or no. Except in the case of Billy Burns theyr'e all still maybes. I'm not sure even the coaches know who is a better international ten between Carbery, RB, HB, Carty and maybe the Munster backups. It's the one area of selection and development where Farrell has been disappointing. Sure none of them are outstanding, but all the more reason to work as hard as possible with one or two to make them as good as they can be. Competition is good but none of these guys know who they're competing with.

Ross is exactly what we need as a Third choice 10 in the squad. Durable, Good kicker and used to playing and training with the majority of players around him. He is not spectacular but is dependable.

He will probably get more minutes at 10 than some of the other options for the rest of the club season.

Id personally prefer him over Carty or Burns.

Until Healy, crowley, lowry (at 10) push past the current starting 10's at their proviences its very hard to make a case for them to be on the plane to NZ this summer ahead of Ross Byrne.

If Ulster get stockdale and Addison back I wonder will we see Lowry move to 10 on a permanent basis for Ulster next season?

Similarly under the new coaching ticket could carberry play more at 15 leaving game time for healy and crowley at 10 at Munster?

That is 100% because none of the potential third choice guys have been able to pull clear of the others. That's their fault, not the coaches'. Burns had his chance, Carty had his chance, and so on. If they don't impress, there's not much else can be done for them.

Like Dubinusa says, and I've said a few times, Sexton could be forced to retire any time or just lose his edge completely due to his age. The fact that none of the others have pulled clear is irrelevant to succession planning. Let's assume JS is out of the picture, who plays ten? That is a question the coach should be able to answer. None of them are good enough might be the reality but someone has to line out nevertheless. I think RB is an example of how poorly this problem has been handled. He got starts in the worst possible games and was then sidelined. He might have benefited from 4 or 5 starts over the last couple of years, better still the Irish team might have benefited. Players improve with good coaching and higher demands and expectations.

As noted above, the answer is unequivocally Joey Carbery. That you don't like the coach's plan does not mean there isn't a plan.

Players improve with good coaching and higher demands and expectations.

The higher demands and expectations of test rugby are exactly why all these other guys have fallen by the wayside. They cannot meet the standards required.

Deja vu lads. Deja vu. We’ve been round and round and round and round and round and round and round this merry go round so many times. The same talking points regurgitated over and over. What’s the bloody point at this stage? There’s nothing new to add to the conversation so we’re just reading the same discussion we’ve read numerous times before.

We know we have a problem at 10. Farrell knows we have a problem at 10. We don’t have much in the way of a solution. This idea that a few starts at Test level might magically upgrade a player to Test Starter Level 1 is massively, massively, massively flawed. There is no shortcut to this. We either have the talent, the talent develops through a significant number of games at one of the provinces to hone the various skills required to read and manage the game effectively or we’re f-ed. The reality for us though is the last one.

Our best shot at silverware, in the 6Ns and the RWC, remains Sexton. If his form falls off a cliff it really doesn’t matter who the back up is. We are looking to move a lot of the decision making and first receiver duties away from 10 to better ensure we can manage without Sexton but the reality is there is nobody even close to being in his orbit and we’re a significantly better team with him there. We might be able to bring Carbery on enough through Munster and Ireland to be a competent replacement, but none of the others are getting to that level any time soon. So who cares who it is? We’re goosed no matter which of the options is selected as 3rd choice. The whole debate is a bit of a waste of time really. We have to hope Sexton stays fit and firing. And then that someone like a Harry Byrne or whoever can kick in at the provinces to make the step up over the next couple of years.